R600 Delayed AGAIN!

[chizow]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I have to wonder how much of this is due to AMD though. It seems like they've taken a real dive since the merger both in PR and development.

Ya that's why I asked who was making the R600 chips. When I first heard of the merger I thought for sure ATI would have a competitive edge over NV since they could R&D and fab their silicon in-house. Unless I'm not up to speed on things....AMD should have the 2nd best fabs (a far 2nd to Intel) in the business right? AMD has been on 90nm process for some time now and are moving to a 65nm process so they should have no problems cranking R600s out with high performing yields unless they're having problems with the high transistor count?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I have to wonder how much of this is due to AMD though. It seems like they've taken a real dive since the merger both in PR and development.

Ya that's why I asked who was making the R600 chips. When I first heard of the merger I thought for sure ATI would have a competitive edge over NV since they could R&D and fab their silicon in-house. Unless I'm not up to speed on things....AMD should have the 2nd best fabs (a far 2nd to Intel) in the business right? AMD has been on 90nm process for some time now and are moving to a 65nm process so they should have no problems cranking R600s out with high performing yields unless they're having problems with the high transistor count?

I don't think they're using AMD's fabs because they're already running at full tilt. It's still TSMC/UMC. No one is going to use modern-gen CPU fabs for GPUs, it's far too profitable making much smaller CPU dice that can be sold in the server market for big bucks.

 

[Zenoth]

It has to come out though, because as long as Nvidia will be the only major player in the "new generation" then that generation will cost too much. It already costs too much for me, which is why I am seriously considering the 8800 GTS 320MB. But even then I would have waited for R600 and its XL (mid-range/performance) variant to lower the 8800 GTS 320MB's price even more, and then I'd have taken my decision.

I think that in the end I need to be patient and wait for it, whether it means Nvidia or ATi, that's irrelevant to me, since it's a question of Price-Performance ratio more than simply performance over my last rig. I have to wait.

 

[rise]

lets hope amd.ati uses the same strategy they used to fight C2D, slash the hell out of prices

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I have to wonder how much of this is due to AMD though. It seems like they've taken a real dive since the merger both in PR and development.

Ya that's why I asked who was making the R600 chips. When I first heard of the merger I thought for sure ATI would have a competitive edge over NV since they could R&D and fab their silicon in-house. Unless I'm not up to speed on things....AMD should have the 2nd best fabs (a far 2nd to Intel) in the business right? AMD has been on 90nm process for some time now and are moving to a 65nm process so they should have no problems cranking R600s out with high performing yields unless they're having problems with the high transistor count?

I don't think they're using AMD's fabs because they're already running at full tilt. It's still TSMC/UMC. No one is going to use modern-gen CPU fabs for GPUs, it's far too profitable making much smaller CPU dice that can be sold in the server market for big bucks.

Ya that makes more sense. But still, TMSC has been cranking out NV's G80 for a while now on the 90nm process and the transistor counts are similar (@700m for both I believe). Reports are they're ready to produce the G80 refresh/G81 on an 80nm process. Seems to point to a problem with R600's design leading to yield problems or simply lower performance compared to G80 on a clock-for-clock comparison.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I have to wonder how much of this is due to AMD though. It seems like they've taken a real dive since the merger both in PR and development.

Ya that's why I asked who was making the R600 chips. When I first heard of the merger I thought for sure ATI would have a competitive edge over NV since they could R&D and fab their silicon in-house. Unless I'm not up to speed on things....AMD should have the 2nd best fabs (a far 2nd to Intel) in the business right? AMD has been on 90nm process for some time now and are moving to a 65nm process so they should have no problems cranking R600s out with high performing yields unless they're having problems with the high transistor count?

I don't think they're using AMD's fabs because they're already running at full tilt. It's still TSMC/UMC. No one is going to use modern-gen CPU fabs for GPUs, it's far too profitable making much smaller CPU dice that can be sold in the server market for big bucks.

Ya that makes more sense. But still, TMSC has been cranking out NV's G80 for a while now on the 90nm process and the transistor counts are similar (@700m for both I believe). Reports are they're ready to produce the G80 refresh/G81 on an 80nm process. Seems to point to a problem with R600's design leading to yield problems or simply lower performance compared to G80 on a clock-for-clock comparison.

Clearly that could be a problem, however without inside information there's no way to be certain what the problem is. I'm just saying that AMD owning ATI isn't something that can help their production problems since they can't use AMD's modern fabs. Nor do I see a way they ever could as long as GPUs are significantly bigger than CPUs(and as such more expensive to produce), as older CPU fabs are out of the question because they don't do half-node processes.

 

[Matt2]

I'm not sure why you guys are so surprised. ATI has done this to us for a while now.

R600 was first supposed to launch in January, then Feb, then march, then April, and now "Q2"???

This is why I hate ATI/AMD. They're all show no go. They purposely leak specs so everyone gets excited for no other reason than to steal some sales from Nvidia. "DOn't buy a G80, we have a GPU that will trounce G80, all you have to do is wait a few months."

:thumbsdown:

 

[5150Joker]

Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

There is no urgency if you're content with the performance of your current video card. But its not like DX10 cards only run DX10 games. All 3 of NV's DX10 cards significantly outperform ATI's best offering at nearly every resolution and setting in every game. The GTX outperforms TWO of ATI's best. For those who aren't happy with their current card, this simply means more waiting or pulling the trigger on a G80. Either way, its less options for them at a higher price compared to the GPU landscape that included R600.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

I think everyone who's in the market for building a new rig right now is affected. :disgust:

Terrible, ATI/AMD, just terrible. Looks like my 9700 Pro was and will be the last purchase I ever make from you guys... :brokenheart:

 

[Rommel44]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

I agree but I hope they release R600 soon - I´m going to buy new gaming rig in may and I REALLY WANT x2900xtx.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Every delay is making AMD/ATI lose money and mindshare in the GPU market.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Rommel44

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

I agree but I hope they release R600 soon - I´m going to buy new gaming rig in may and I REALLY WANT x2900xtx.

Have fun waiting. Seriously, I don't see what the problem is with you people waiting for R600. It's been delayed yet again, just get the best card out there right now and be happy for at least a year or so. :disgust:

 

[jim1976]

I think it's too early to verify the validity of these news..
Relax take a deep breath and wait for confirmation..

 

[Xerin7]

Originally posted by: apoppin
be aware that nvidia may well delay the 8900 series to *milk* 8800 and perfect their drivers ... the only reason i can see that they would release it "early" is if it saves them money by moving to a cheaper manufacturing process.

If the 8900 doesn't come out more than 3 months from now, that is too long to wait for my upgrade in any case. ATI just made my decision for me today and guaranteed they would not get my business, at least this time around.

I agree with you...it is a sad day for fanbois of BOTH camps because lower competition ultimately means paying higher prices for lower quality goods.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: jim1976
I think it's too early to verify the validity of these news..
Relax take a deep breath and wait for confirmation..

Says the person with the 8800GTX and X1900XT rigs...

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: jim1976
I think it's too early to verify the validity of these news..
Relax take a deep breath and wait for confirmation..

Even beyond3d claims this. The editors day on March 11th have been cancelled (all the flights, hotel bookings, etc) which is why alot of sites are claiming that R600 is delayed.

I just hope we are not looking at a May Launch date if they decide to go for a new respin.
The reasons for this delay could be

1) Yields are not good, or something is preventing AMD to have a real *hard launch*. (not like the 7800GTX 512mb for example)

2) Simply cannot compete with the G80 very well i.e they need to tweak/OC their card more to have a clear performance advantage this late to the game

3) They want a family launch with the mid/low range R6x0 products, or launch with barcelona at the same time.

4) Drivers are a mess, and they dont want to afford facing what nVIDIA has been facing. Theyd rather delay their product then release it with unstable drivers.

Take your pick.

 

[mooncancook]

bad news. Looks like 8800s are not going to have a significant price drop any time soon. Long live my X1900XT!

 

[imported_RedStar]

this is what i don't like --the r600 has not been delayed. It was always scheduled to be released Q2 --as proven by the ati roadmap leaked on a spanish web site months ago --which i have linked to several times.

Seems alot of people like to say ..hold on..don't buy anything yet ...the r600 will be released early jan....no late jan..no early feb..no late feb ...and so on.

cmon people..wake up already... the R600 has always been on track for Q2 --general availability in April.

WAKE UP!

Now the thing that made me change from waiting for the R600 was the fact that the g80 had unified shaders afterall AND ..it actually came out slightly before early expectations.

Driver trouble ... not so much, really since i don't need SLI afterall This allows me to get around the horrible nvidia 680i chipset (i blame nvidia but many others don't

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: RedStar
this is what i don't like --the r600 has not been delayed. It was always scheduled to be released Q2 --as proven by the ati roadmap leaked on a spanish web site months ago --which i have linked to several times.

Seems alot of people like to say ..hold on..don't buy anything yet ...the r600 will be released early jan....no late jan..no early feb..no late feb ...and so on.

cmon people..wake up already... the R600 has always been on track for Q2 --general availability in April.

WAKE UP!

Now the thing that made me change from waiting for the R600 was the fact that the g80 had unified shaders afterall AND ..it actually came out slightly before early expectations.

Driver trouble ... not so much, really since i don't need SLI afterall This allows me to get around the horrible nvidia 680i chipset (i blame nvidia but many others don't

If its always been on track for Q2, why was the conference, which everyone was booked flights for and reserving hotel places, delayed... :disgust:

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

Who cares about DX10? It will be many years before it overtakes DX9 in games released.

I think many people are looking for competition for the G80 and after (what could be) 6 months they are losing faith.

Many people building new systems or just upgrading their monitor are in the market for a new card. They want to consider all options, however one option keeps getting pushed off the table.

 

[Matt2]

It's probably been delayed because DAAMIT's drivers are probably in shambles, just like Nvidia's.

If you were DAAMIT, would you release a card with horrible drivers when your own fan base and even Nvidia's has been attacking the quality of your competitor's drivers?

 

[thegimp03]

I would say that this opens up the door to Nvidia to develop their next product quicker and release it before AMD/ATI even gets R600 out the door. This might really drive a stake through that release.

Whatever, I just buy whatever is a good deal for the money. Of course I want competition, it makes prices lower in the end, but this, if true, gives Nvidia a huge opportunity.

 

[Xarick]

This actually makes me happy because I just stepped up to an 8800gts 320.. then heard about the 8900gts. Which will likely now not get released until well after my step up would have been passed.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I'll take that with a grain of salt.

theInq will echo the news soon if true.

Or even if it's not true.


ATI has become a joke.