R600 Delayed AGAIN!

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: apoppin

If r600 is not a success there will be NO r700

one bad generation wont kill a company. look at nvidia during the FX disaster -- they survived just fine. even though the entire fx line pretty much sucked, they still survived.

look at how well the FX5200 sold. sure, it was really slow, but OMG IT HAS DX9!1!!!. IMO, that's what ATI needs to do right now - get a low end DX10 part out, and it WILL sell a lot of cards with a decent marketing strategy that pushes it's advantage over "outdated" dx9 cards even though it will probably be slower than the higher end dx9 cards available today. Dell/hp and the big computer companies will probably buy a bunch for their "ultimate gaming" computers. at the very least it'll give ATI some more revenue AND make people think more highly of them in case they cant get r600 out the door for another 3-4 months.

AMD already had its ass handed to it with Core2duo

now they are really embarassingly late with x2800 and had to CANCEL a HARD launch
:Q

that is BAD news and indicating serious problems inside their company

IF Barcelona ALSO fails to BEAT intel's best ... well ...

... then ...

R.I.P. :brokenheart:

i am hoping for a *miracle* ... now

No *miracle* needed. They have Saphire ready with boards for both Barcelona AND R600 I hear.... :Q

:evil:

 

[smthmlk]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Seriously, who cares about the delay? If there's no DX10 games on the market right now, why the urgency? I'd rather they tweaked the R600 and it's drivers and release it at the same time as a popular DX10 title.

I'll tell you who cares: AMD shareholders.

If you want to go out and build yourself the best gaming rig with your tax return (ding ding ding), you're going to buy the best card on the market right now that you can get your hands on. You'd want top-shelf dx9 performance, and preferably dx10 performance down the road. Your only choices are 8800 series cards. AMD hasn't got anything to compete right now in that segment.

Shareholders know that every day without a product to even approach the 8800 series is a day that they don't even try to compete with nvidia for the dollars that are being spent in that price-range (re-read that before jumping on me). If they had something out in that segment, even if it didn't win the benchmarks, as long as it's fairly close, they could compete on price, power/noise, bundles, paid-for reviews to show them on top, viral marketing, etc, and get product sold. Without a product on the shelves, they can't compete.

Now, don't confuse what I just said with the lower end segments where AMD definitely has plenty of good, solid coverage, even in areas where nvidia is sparse (high-end agp). But there's lots of 8800's being sold right now for current dx9 games, as well as for future dx10 games (people are trying to future-proof, good for them). My point is that AMD is sitting back and watching an active segment of the market flow almost entirely into nvidia's hands. Shareholders don't like to see that happen.

EDIT: As to the reasons why AMD haven't got a product out, and why there's more and more delays, I hope that it's the effects of merging and that they kick it into high gear once things settle. Surely no one (not even shareholders ) could expect things to be settled down over night, but given the current situation on both the cpu and gpu fronts, things aren't looking so hot.

 

[apoppin]

the "merge" [acquisition, whatever} shouldn't affect the engineering of r600 whatsoever

Hector Ruiz set a firm *date* ... CeBit for the ceremonial launch and a hard launch to follow shortly ... and now it is postponed to ...

... pick a date

Q2
:Q

 

[tuteja1986]

Okay end of march is the end of Q1... ATI card is coming out next in Apirl which is Q2. !!! it is on track but its not coming in march but apirl.

 

[Corporate Thug]

ATI delaying launch? i dont believe it...

 

[WinnieThePujols]

This is really bad news.

I don't know how many people are in my boat, but I was really close to buying a GTX... so close that I had my shopping cart full (along with other upgrades), and I damn-near hit "purchase." And then I stopped. A day later, I started reading about these R600 cards. Only a six weeks away!? I can wait for that! That gives me time to save up! But now that six weeks has transformed into ten... or 14... I'm not waiting that long. And it's not just that the release was soon: I was really content with getting an R600. It seemed like it would provide a 10% increase in the GTX for a pretty small difference in price (GTX's price now vs. R600's price at launch).

So ultimately, I'll probably end up going with the 8800 GTX. ATI just lost a sale. Not a huge deal, of course, but I wonder how many people are in my shoes...?


Oh, I was wondering: someone mentioned the 90 day upgrade policy. Can someone explain the basic premise behind that? Who offers it? I'm guessing it's just, "If you buy an 8800 GTX and the 8900 GTX comes out within 3 months, you can swap it out for _____."

Thanks!

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: thefonz
I posted this in the different thread but i'm going to post it again just cause there are like 4 threads going on this right now
My thoughts on the R600 etc

"Maybe this is just a strategy to try and sell both the native quad cores and 28xx's together in a system, along with new chip sets!
If every piece of silicone in your computer is from AMD there gong to be making alot of freakin money, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last of the nForce chipsets for AMD also.

Reality is that if some people upgrade there vid card, there going to get a new cpu as well (especially apg users)

Bottom line, AMD wants all your money, not just some from a video card.

Works out for me anyway cause I was gonna wait till either the current quad cores or new quad cores are around 400 before I buy a new system. I won't mind giving AMD all my cash in a couple months as long as performance is on par or better than intel/nvidia solutions.

Dual cores are so last year "

They obviously had it ready,they invited all the press, And then they cancel? this is a pure strategic $ decision,
Anyone believing yield issues must be retarded, They had 13 revisions before this, and if they can't figure it out by now, they really are screwed.

If the all this bull ****** hype about yield etc is true, this is terrible for the computer market, you might as well bend over right now and let nvidia have its way with you,
$1000 *NEW* high end gpu's for a 5% performance gain and some useless features here we come! Hoorayy!!!!

Ditto for Intel if AMD can't compete soon in cpu's

not 13 revisions, more like 4.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: WinnieThePujols
Oh, I was wondering: someone mentioned the 90 day upgrade policy. Can someone explain the basic premise behind that? Who offers it? I'm guessing it's just, "If you buy an 8800 GTX and the 8900 GTX comes out within 3 months, you can swap it out for _____."

Thanks!

EVGA offers it. You can "upgrade" your card to a newer card for the cost of the difference. You have to pay for shipping both ways though I think...and if you're in Canada, you COULD be charged customs also. I'm in Canada and I decided to skip this when I had my 7900GTO.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Okay end of march is the end of Q1... ATI card is coming out next in Apirl which is Q2. !!! it is on track but its not coming in march but apirl.

'08
:Q


what's "a year" ... among friends?

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: WinnieThePujols
This is really bad news.

I don't know how many people are in my boat, but I was really close to buying a GTX... so close that I had my shopping cart full (along with other upgrades), and I damn-near hit "purchase." And then I stopped. A day later, I started reading about these R600 cards. Only a six weeks away!? I can wait for that! That gives me time to save up! But now that six weeks has transformed into ten... or 14... I'm not waiting that long. And it's not just that the release was soon: I was really content with getting an R600. It seemed like it would provide a 10% increase in the GTX for a pretty small difference in price (GTX's price now vs. R600's price at launch).

So ultimately, I'll probably end up going with the 8800 GTX. ATI just lost a sale. Not a huge deal, of course, but I wonder how many people are in my shoes...?


Oh, I was wondering: someone mentioned the 90 day upgrade policy. Can someone explain the basic premise behind that? Who offers it? I'm guessing it's just, "If you buy an 8800 GTX and the 8900 GTX comes out within 3 months, you can swap it out for _____."

Thanks!

You can swap it out for the price difference between what you bought the card for and the new card's price. This is in EVGA's warranty, an excellent company. I've never had a problem with them.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I have to wonder how much of this is due to AMD though. It seems like they've taken a real dive since the merger both in PR and development.

Ya that's why I asked who was making the R600 chips. When I first heard of the merger I thought for sure ATI would have a competitive edge over NV since they could R&D and fab their silicon in-house. Unless I'm not up to speed on things....AMD should have the 2nd best fabs (a far 2nd to Intel) in the business right? AMD has been on 90nm process for some time now and are moving to a 65nm process so they should have no problems cranking R600s out with high performing yields unless they're having problems with the high transistor count?

TSMC is still producing ATi chips.

I read an article recently that AMD says they plan to do it in house "sometime in the future" but they dont have the capacity to do it now.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: rise
lets hope amd.ati uses the same strategy they used to fight C2D, slash the hell out of prices

The problem is graphics cards cost 5-6x as much to produce, a 512bit card would be even more.

 

[imported_RedStar]

"I don't know how many people are in my boat, but I was really close to buying a GTX... so close that I had my shopping cart full (along with other upgrades), and I damn-near hit "purchase." And then I stopped. A day later, I started reading about these R600 cards. Only a six weeks away!? I can wait for that! That gives me time to save up! But now that six weeks has transformed into ten... or 14... I'm not waiting that long. And it's not just that the release was soon: I was really content with getting an R600. It seemed like it would provide a 10% increase in the GTX for a pretty small difference in price (GTX's price now vs. R600's price at launch). "

This is exactly what i am talking about...except it started in October of last year. hehe

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Check out IGNs 'fair and balanced' analysis of the situation: http://gear.ign.com/articles/766/766525p1.html

 

[Bill Brasky]

A little off topic, but I've got a couple questions about yield problems.

Does "yield problems" generally refer to issues manufacturing working die or issues in the logic? Maybe both? (I don't understand how amd/ati could actually have logic issues at this point, but I'm not sure)

If we're talking about manufacturing, who eats that cost of the lost silicon and manufacturing labor? AMD or TSMC? If it is AMD, that implies they purchase wafers from TSMC and just take the working die they make. Correct?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zaitsev
A little off topic, but I've got a couple questions about yield problems.

Does "yield problems" generally refer to issues manufacturing working die or issues in the logic? Maybe both? (I don't understand how amd/ati could actually have logic issues at this point, but I'm not sure)

If we're talking about manufacturing, who eats that cost of the lost silicon and manufacturing labor? AMD or TSMC? If it is AMD, that implies they purchase wafers from TSMC and just take the working die they make. Correct?

exactly on topic

a bad yield would mean few usable high-binned GPUs out of a Wafer ... that is expensive to any company - now AMD for r600.

a *bug* in the silicon was what x1800 had ... something kept the GPU from reaching it's targeted clockspeed

 

[blckgrffn]

It's crazy the fervor this has worked up...

I, for one, am willing to cut them some slack. I don't buy high end (anymore) anyway, so I am more interested in the ~$250 segment.

I would hope that ATI would push some lower end and midrange cards out soon, pushing their whole lineup to DX10 would put them in a good position in the market segments with the highest volume.

Interesting news, I wonder if we will hear what caused this particular delay after the actual launch of the product, similar to what happened with the x1800 launch/fiasco.

Nat

 

[Zenoth]

I say screw the enthusiasts variants for now, and release the mid-range parts(s) (X2900XL) in due time (March/April) as originally expected. I'm sure they could do it, but I'm sure it won't happen, since that portion of R600 series was due later than the enthusiast variants anyway.

 

[Pugnate]

I lurk on these forums a lot. I wonder why some of the people act like know it all jerks or just plain a-holes.

I also love comments like, "Why are you idiots surprised? I knew this would happen thanks to my superior knowledge/intelligence/above average member size."

To them I say, where were you during threads discussing news items like this:

http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Releases+Final+R600+Specs/article6138.htm

I love how everyone is a genius after the fact.

Also to those 'gamers' who say stuff like,"You morons! There are no DX10 games out there!"... I say please go back to playing Hexen. DX10 cards are also the DX9 leaders. Games today like Vegas, Double Agent, NWN2 and even Oblivion don't run properly on anything below and 8800. Some of those games like Vegas don't even run well on the 8800!

 

[Cookie Monster]

Day by day this R600 sounds exactly like the nv30..

Delay, hype, delay, hype, delay.. etc

 

[judasmachine]

Fumble, and it looks like nVidia has picked up....................again, this time?

And before i get labled a fanboy, I haven't had an nVidia card since the GeForce 3.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Pugnate
Some of those games like Vegas don't even run well on the 8800!

That's just crappy programming. Though, I will admit, the game is kinda fun.

 

[ArchAngel777]

To be honest, I am dissapointed in this news... I was really looking forward to the ATI R600 in my hands by March 31st.

 

[Greenman]

It's sad that AMD can't seem to get anything right anymore. As long as they can't get new products on the shelf, their stock will continue to drop, and they will have to increase sales by cutting prices. Thats good for us in the short term, but they can't do it forever.

 

[Pugnate]

You are right... it is very crappy programming. But what's the point of owning a 8800GTX if they will continue to program crappily?