R9 280, R9 380 or gtx 960?

[secretagent]

if there were no MIR hanky panky to muddy the waters as with every price you quote.

What do you mean?

 

[secretagent]

even if GTX960 4GB drops to $160, it's still overpriced.

Yeah, no. If the 960 dropped to $160 USD ($207.16 CAD) I too would snatch it up ASAP. Thats REALLY cheap for 5-10 fps difference.

 

[RussianSensation]

That would be an utterly ridiculous and totally subjective assessment. I'd snap up one in a hot minute if there were no MIR hanky panky to muddy the waters as with every price you quote.

As far as US prices go, no it's not absolutely a ridiculous statement. You've already said that you primarily play WoW and a couple other NV-favoured games. So of course for you a 960 is even better than a Fury. That's not a solid argument for anyone who plays a wide variety of games.

I've already provided enough evidence to show that buying a $160 GTX960 and then in 2 years another $160 card is a waste of time and money because might as well buy a 970/390/290 right away.

1. 960 is not suitable for SLI because it's going to be a worse overall experience than 970/290 that don't rely on SLI profiles and are nearly as fast.

2. In the only 2/2 DX12 benchmarks, 960 bombs against a 285, nevermind a 280X. I guess that doesn't matter if all you do is play WOW or Skyrim but a lot of gamers don't just play 1-2 games for years.

3. An after-market 290/390 or 970 are more than 50% faster than a GTX960, but to truly understand the gap between these cards and the 960 is to look at actual FPS. 960 cannot reach 60 fps at 1080P and its minimums are miles behind 290/390/290X/970 cards.

If you actually step back for a second and stop only looking at the percentage difference and focus on the actual average FPS in many games, 960 is already struggling now in 2015. That means the 960 owner will have to go out and buy yet another GPU much sooner vs. a 970/290 owner that can just wait out a lot longer while enjoying 60 fps in many games at 1080P.

In some cases, it actually is better to spend more upfront in terms of cost of ownership and gaming experience. This is one of those cases.

BTW, if you really want a GTX960 4GB for $160, EVGA has them all the time. Alternatively, if you want to save a bit of money, EVGA often has the Classified 770 4GB for sale for $140.

I got the single-fan mini evga 4gb 960 for my htpc for $199.

This has already been covered and it's accepted that 960 is a great HTPC card. The other points you made like the card being easy on the PSU is a cop-out.

It's possible to buy an R9 290 for $245 that results in total system power usage < 300W.

Thus, you can see how outside of HTPC use cases, a $199 960 4GB is absolutely a horrible deal when a $245 290 is 50-60% faster.

Anyway, relating all of these ideas to the OP's Canadian prices, this is what we get:

EVGA GTX960 4GB = $299.99 * 1.13 tax - $20 MIR = $319 CDN
PowerColor R9 290 = ($339.99 + $14.99 SH) * 1.13 tax - $20 MIR = $381 CDN

So it costs 19% more or just $62 CDN more to get well over 50% of performance increase and 60 fps @ 1080P. I already presented all the data above -- so I strongly disagree with you that my statement is subjective. It's objective as math proves that a ~$300 CDN 960 4GB is a horrendous buy in Canada and even in the US at $160 relative to EVGA B-stock 970s or sales on 290/390 cards.

Yeah, no. If the 960 dropped to $160 USD ($207.16 CAD) I too would snatch it up ASAP. Thats REALLY cheap for 5-10 fps difference.

Usually NCIX Canada has really good deals in October-December months. Make sure to check Canada Computers and BestBuy.ca as well. If you do that over these quarter, you will get something good. If there is a good deal on an NV/AMD card in Canada that I stumble upon, I'll try to post it in the Hot Deals.

 

[Madpacket]

Although I agree with most of what RS says, I was able to get an EVGA SSC 960 from NCIX in Canada for $205 *after* 13% taxes. It took a bit of work but was really easy in the end.

When the 950's were first introduced they cleared out the 960's with free shipping, rebates, and free MGSV codes which sold for an easy 40 bucks. Sure you may have trouble finding the same deal right now but if Nvidia is truly discontinuing the 2GB 960's they will likely be on sale very soon with incentives to clear out inventory.

Despite what most people spout the Maxwell's do great compression and the filltrate on the 960 isn't high enough to really take advantage of 4GB (Neither is the 380 for that matter) properly. Yes there are a few bad Ubi ports but this an exception.

Overall the 960 is a little slower than a 380 but still fast enough for the majority of 1080P games today, plus it's dead quiet and sips power under load.

All that being said I do use mine in a HTPC setting to keep everything cool and quiet in a small ITX case. It's an excellent card and I haven't regretted the purchase or ran into a game it couldn't run at decent settings.

Now for a main gaming rig or dedicated PC you probably shouldn't be looking at anything less than a 970 or 290 IMO. The 380 / 285 / 280X just isn't fast enough if you want something that will last more than a few years and allow max settings.

Alternatively if you really have a strict budget grab the cheapest 960 now and enjoy it for a year or until the next generation of cards arrive, buy one of those new cards for your main PC and then toss the existing 960 it into a HTPC hooked up to a 4K Television which it has native support for unlike all the other cards mentioned here.

 

[Mondozei]

Right now AMD is the better deal in the sub-300 (US) dollar market. Better DX12 performance, better VRAM(3 over 2 in the ~200 dollar range, 8 over 3.5 in the ~300 dollar range) and add to this better long-term driver support.

Just look at how the 290 has aged over the 780. They are not even close today. Sweclockers even stopped using the 780 in its most recent benchmarks, which should tell you how relevant they think that GPU is today.

Still, I would actually wait a little and see what the 380X brings. The full Tonga GPU is about to be relased within weeks. While RS is correct that the 960 struggles today, so is the 380. A new 390 or 970 simply blows his budget too much.

A used 290 is the only real option right now but not everyone wants to buy a used card.
I did find a new 290 at NCIX for 370 Canadian dollars. It is past your budget OP but at least it's not 420 Canadian dollars or more, which is what a new 390/970 will typically cost you.

I'd recommend getting a used 290 if you absolutely can't go over budget or just wait for the 380X and then proceed from there.

 

[RussianSensation]

Although I agree with most of what RS says, I was able to get an EVGA SSC 960 from NCIX in Canada for $205 *after* 13% taxes. It took a bit of work but was really easy in the end.

Ya, that's a hot deal

When the 950's were first introduced they cleared out the 960's with free shipping, rebates, and free MGSV codes which sold for an easy 40 bucks. Sure you may have trouble finding the same deal right now but if Nvidia is truly discontinuing the 2GB 960's they will likely be on sale very soon with incentives to clear out inventory.

Yup, great point again. That's why if the OP is buying in December as he noted earlier, he should be watching NCIX, Canada Computers, BestBuy, redflagdeals, etc.

All that being said I do use mine in a HTPC setting to keep everything cool and quiet in a small ITX case. It's an excellent card and I haven't regretted the purchase or ran into a game it couldn't run at decent settings.

Yup, the 960 is really awesome for an HTPC.

Now for a main gaming rig or dedicated PC you probably shouldn't be looking at anything less than a 970 or 290 IMO. The 380 / 285 / 280X just isn't fast enough if you want something that will last more than a few years and allow max settings.

I agree esp. since with his CPU without upgrading his main platform, this could be the last GPU upgrade over the next 3 years he makes.

 

[happy medium]

An after-market 290/390 or 970 are more than 50% faster than a GTX960

and should be, they cost almost double the price. 170$ vs 300$

 

[crisium]

Are you actually going to try and and convince us that for the past 9 months (960 lifespan) it has been difficult to find a 290 below $300 but there has always been a 960 for $170? Even with current price levels your figures are radically off, with the cheapest 960 being $175 and the cheapest 290 being $248 (pcpartpicker). That's still a better price to dollar ratio in favor of the 290, and that's a 2GB 960. Many games gladly pay over $200 for a 4GB version, narrowing the price gap even more. And 290s have consistently seen variants in the $240-$270 range this year, while 960 launched at $200 flat.

RS is right that the 960 excels as a HTPC card with its HDMI 2.0, small profile, 1x6pin, etc. But for general PC gaming it leaves much to be desired.

 

[iiiankiii]

and should be, they cost almost double the price. 170$ vs 300$

Except you can grab a R9 290/x 390 for well under $300 right now.... The Powercolor R9 390 was at $235 (after MIR) about a week ago. Lets face it, the GTX 960 class cards are horrible (R9 380, R9 285, GTX 770, GTX 960).

 

[secretagent]

So, what is the difference between the XFX R9 380 4Gb card: http://www.ncix.com/detail/xfx-radeon-r9-380-990mhz-7e-110205-1382.htm

and the other, more expensive r9 380 4Gb cards? http://search.ncix.com/search/?qcatid=0&q=R9+380

Are the more expensive ones worth the extra $50 or so CAD? And yes I know the cards have huge sales, but I can't get any one of them right now, it'll have to be around Christmas time...

 

[happy medium]

Except you can grab a R9 290/x 390 for well under $300 right now

I would not buy a 290 series.

 

[happy medium]

has always been a 960 for $170

for the past month on newegg they have been around 170/180$, I have seen them for 160$ actually. And these are 10% overclocked out of the box models.

 

[happy medium]

Powercolor R9 390 was at $235 (after MIR

Dam actually it was 224$ AR and 50$ promo code.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=37754976

Now I would have bought that card, I missed it. but that is very very rare.

 

[secretagent]

I would not buy a 290 series.

Why not exactly?

 

[happy medium]

Why not exactly?

290= Hot overpowered junk.
why do you think they made the 390 line?
They slapped a better cooler on the same gpu with a little overclock from the 290, overclocked the memory and called it a 390.

this is common knowledge.

Actually I'm waiting to see the new 380x card, if it ever comes out.

 

[secretagent]

Will my 500W PSU be able to handle a R9 390/290x? Just asking. Also if it can handle these cards, I'm guessing a 970 would be okay for my PSU as well, right?

 

[happy medium]

970 would be okay for my PSU

yes the gtx 970 will be fine with almost any 500 watt psu.
remember the gtx970 can overclock like 20%, even with your psu.


for the 290/390 ,You would have to give me the model of your PSU and I wouldnt overclock with these cards on some of the best 500 watt psu's.

 

[Spanners]

290= Hot overpowered junk.

I'm not sure what you mean by overpowered but non-reference models run cool. "Junk" is just needless hyperbole again.

for the 290/390 ,You would have to give me the model of your PSU and I wouldnt overclock with these cards on some of the best 500 watt psu's.

This is misinformation.

A quality 500w PSU would be no problem at all with an overclocked 290/390.

The graph above is total system consumption with an over-volt on the card and an overclocked Intel Core i7-4960X @ 4.2GHz which would draw three times the amount your CPU does.

 

[Zanovar]

Quite a few 290s/x great cards imo.im sure the rational will find them^^.

 

[secretagent]

Well, I'm happy to say that I purchased an R9 380 4Gb edition from XFX. It should be here within a week or two. I sure hope I will enjoy it as much as so many of you said I would...

 

[happy medium]

Well, I'm happy to say that I purchased an R9 380 4Gb edition from XFX. It should be here within a week or two. I sure hope I will enjoy it as much as so many of you said I would...

What games do you have? I just bought a gtx960 4gb for 170$, mabe we can compare performance. My system is very similar to yours.