R9 290 *Complete* review list

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Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,389
7,154
136
So you are now saying that the plain 290 is going to surpass its more expensive sibling and get Ti performance?...good on ya mate!

Re-read what he said... He refers to "780 Ti performance via overclocking the 780". Don't know where you got 290 OC = 780 Ti performance from, buddy.

SlowSpyder said:
Right, so you spend $100 more (25%) over the 290 to get the roughtly same performance as the 780Ti via overclocking the 780. With the 290 you're not overclocking, just trying to keep the boost speeds AMD says the card are made to run at (I think AT said 927MHz in their review). But you can then overclock the 290's, too...

Considering this forum has more AMD fans, id say the the constant garbage is really just the AMD fans..

I don't know, man... from reading your posts in this thread, that sounds a whole lot like hypocrisy to me... :whiste:
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
So you are now saying that the plain 290 is going to surpass its more expensive sibling and get Ti performance?...good on ya mate!

Do you agree that an ~800MHz 290 is as fast as a GTX780? What do you think 25% more clockspeed will do for it's performance?

I bet it'll be pretty close to reference 780Ti performance, but then again we really don't know what 780Ti performance will be. 7% more Cuda cores and what clockspeed? I guess we'll have to wait and see what non-reference models of both cards will offer. But I think we'll see plenty of 1GHz+ 290's with faster memory and much better coolers... likely for under $450.
 

flopper

Senior member
Dec 16, 2005
739
19
76
Do you agree that an ~800MHz 290 is as fast as a GTX780? What do you think 25% more clockspeed will do for it's performance?

I bet it'll be pretty close to reference 780Ti performance, but then again we really don't know what 780Ti performance will be. 7% more Cuda cores and what clockspeed? I guess we'll have to wait and see what non-reference models of both cards will offer. But I think we'll see plenty of 1GHz+ 290's with faster memory and much better coolers... likely for under $450.

1500mhz 290x beats 1800mhz titan hwbot.
so I woould assume a OC 290 do really well if it goes up to 1300mhz.

http://hwbot.org/submission/2443921_smoke_3dmark11___performance_radeon_r9_290x_22640_marks
 

rgallant

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2007
1,361
11
81
Are $ the only metric you know?, AMD need to undercut NV because NV is seen as a premium. Look how long it took for drivers to sort XF and the 7xxx XF is still borked. The power usage is no where near close unless you start clocking the 780. Your answer to the quote instead of tackling the heat and power etc, is to talk about pricing?..
If the the difference between the cards is $100 and aftermarket cooling is $75, do you really think people will baulk at the $25 difference to risk their card in a do it yourself?....I certainly wouldn't.
If AMD had any balls, they would of put a decent cooler on the card and gone head to head on performance with their improved drivers.
I'd put blocks on any gpu so better card prices at 2 x $400 seems better than 2 x $650.00 imo
 

Xcobra

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2004
3,635
382
126
lol... what's with the bashing on these cards? Sounds like a broken record (the heat, the noise, heat, noise, heat noise). I get it! I am just being sensible and waiting for after-market coolers. Just chill people.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,184
626
126
Yes the Asus version of the card should be nice but pricey. They don't last long especially when they had the dciu II models or whatever they were called. I remember everywhere I looked they were sold out.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
Yeah, Asus makes a great cooler. I've had a few DCu II cooled cards and have had zero issues :thumbsup:
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126


Also of note is that users using uber mode (55% fan, the pcper is using 50% & 60%) won't see much if any throttling.

Yup, as expected the usual focus on the reference design completely ignores that after-market coolers will fix noise and temperature issues and fix all throttling. Most of the complaints are also coming from posters who do not have reference cards in their sigs and probably do not buy reference cards to begin with since they are usually not suitable for overclocking on air without a large noise and temperature penalty.

This is like a repeat of reference 7970GE where certain members of the forum ignored all after-market 7970GE cards until R9 280X launched. I guess after after-market R9 290/Xs launch, the focus will shift to profit margins, AMD being desperate to undercut NV to gain market share, PhysX, TXAA, and NV having the fastest [overpriced] flagship GPU means that AMD "can't compete".

- problems with SLI/Xfire if open air coolers are packed close together
- still sitting at 95C, that can't be good for longevity no matter what AMD claims.. if not for your card then think of the waste heat being spewed into your case affecting your other components (with open-air coolers)
- So a card with better cooling merely gives you back a little headroom that you should have gotten in the first place.

Umm..no on every point.

- You can run 2-slot after-market cards in Tri-fire/SLI without issues in a modern case. We aren't talking about a small form factor case but it was done many times with HD7970s with MSI Lightning, Gigabyte Windforce, etc. Someone buying $800-$1200 worth of GPUs shouldn't be using a cheap $60 case / 10-year-old case with no front intake fans with poor airflow.
- It was already shown in TechSpot's review that when they fitted R9 280X's Iceq X2 cooler, the maximum temperature in games fell from 95*C to 63*C. Where do you come up with this idea that after-market cards will run at 95*C? You realize the Gigabyte Windforce 3x cooler is vastly superior to the reference design? It will drop temperature and noise levels simultaneously.



- Users who swapped out the cooler are hitting 1150-1200mhz overclocks. Sure it's not 7970 style but it's definitely close to GTX680.

GTX680s ran at 1058mhz at minimum and average overclock on hwbot is 1220mhz. I'll even go farther and say that many overclocked to 1241-1297 on air, or about 17-23%. 1200mhz on R9 290 is right up there % wise since its turbo clock is 947.

***

And there we have it, a $699 GTX780Ti. NV just set themselves up for this one: $700 780Ti vs. $800 R9 290 CF.


 
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dust

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2008
1,339
2
71
^ Soo.. Russian, let me know please when you visit Al Ain Center for a pair of 290s, perhaps we can get a group rate or something:sneaky:
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
If those charts are accurate, looks like the noise levels will likely come under fire too. :whiste:

It will not, NV blowers at the same dBa is less noisy..........

or less irritating...

because its pushing green air.

ps. why should anyone care what reference cards sounds like unless they specifically buy reference cards... too logical?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
^ Soo.. Russian, let me know please when you visit Al Ain Center for a pair of 290s, perhaps we can get a group rate or something:sneaky:

heheh

- Not going to upgrade this generation as I am waiting for a 75-100% increase
- Didn't update my sig but I am now in Central Asia until May 2014. Will try to come back to UAE after that.

ps. why should anyone care what reference cards sounds like unless they specifically buy reference cards... too logical?

What responses did you expect? If you bought a $400-450 770 2-4GB, $650-700 GTX780 and especially $1K Titan, I am pretty sure you wouldn't be too thrilled that a $400 card is smashing your 770 and trading blows with the 780/Titan. In trying to justify your purchase of the above NV cards, you then focus in on the competitor's flaws to make yourself feel good that you didn't waste money.

I am curious to know the rebuttal being prepared by team NV when 2xAsus DCUII R9 290s beat GTX780Ti by 50%+ for $120-130 more? Also, who is going to spend $700 USD on a single GPU this late in 28nm cycle when 20nm cards are likely only 12 months away?
 
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Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,389
7,154
136
I am curious to know the rebuttal being prepared by team NV when 2xAsus DCUII R9 290s beat GTX780Ti by 50%+ for $120-130 more? Also, who is going to spend $700 USD on a single GPU this late in 28nm cycle when 20nm cards are likely only 12 months away?
CF DCUII 290s should win in FPS, video RAM, temperature, acoustics, and bang/buck, but not in power draw.

Ahh, I can hear it now:
"Sure, CF 290s give you 42% more FPS, but look at the power draw! You need a nuclear power plant to run that kind of setup. Of course, this is nothing like having SLI'd 480s because with 480s, you could at least fry a few eggs and make yourself some breakfast. You can't play video games AND make breakfast with CF 290s, and we all know how important it is to have breakfast. It's the most important meal of the day for crying out loud!"
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
My conclusion is that R9 290 series is pre-overclocked and possibly pre-overvolted as well. They are really pushing the chip hard right out of the box, just like NV pushed their GK104 chip in GTX 770. 7970 and 680 were not pushed nearly as hard so they had more headroom for post-purchase overclocking/volting.

Hawaii and AMD's Turbo just works differently than what we've seen before. It adjusts fan speed and clocks, within preset limits, to maintain a predetermined temp. You just need to get your head around that. The reference cooler is adequate to reach the required performance levels of being competitive or faster than the GK110 chips. It isn't overvolted, or overclocked.

PCPer ran the numbers hot vs cold and surprise surprise you need 50-60% fan speed to prevent the hot run from sinking in performance. http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...figurable-GPU/Cold-versus-Hot-R9-290X-Results

That would explain why the uber fan speed target is 55%.

"The Run 2 graph shows us that 20% and 30% levels are just simply not going to work on the 290X. Take a look at the green line that represents 20% - it is actually running OVER 20% the entire time, and in fact runs over 30% and hits 44% towards the end! The same is true for the 30% setting. Clearly the R9 290X is not able to maintain its base clock of 727 MHz with fan speeds under 40% and thus we now know why AMD selected that option for its "quiet" profile. Rather than lower the clocks any more than 727 MHz, AMD instead overrides the maximum fan speed setting of the driver to lower temperatures and maintain a "base" performance level."

Yes, that is exactly why AMD selected 40% for quiet mode.

And "hot" was just 5-7 minutes of play. For longer periods of time I suspect you would need to ride 60%+ continuously.

That is not how it works. Once equilibrium is attained that's where it will stay. It's not like it will stabilize for a period and then continue to increase the longer you go. Load, voltage, ambient temps, or something in the equation would have to change. Temps aren't going to rise simply because of time.

You can argue all you want that buying an aftermarket card or Arctic Accelero or water will 'fix' your problem but that means:
You are stating there is a problem without defining it. If you are talking about decreasing noise, cooler running temps, higher sustainable clocks, then a higher performance cooler can give you all of these things, just like any other GPU.

- extra cost for Accelero, water, and possibly some of the better non-ref cards
Here you are saying that a better cooler will cost more. If it was preinstalled on the reference design it wouldn't magically not make it cost more.
- extra hassle for Accelero, water installation as well as possible warranty voiding issues
If you don't want to change coolers yourself and don't want the reference design then you will have exactly the same option with Hawaii as any other card, buy one with a preinstalled aftermarket cooler.
- problems with SLI/Xfire if open air coolers are packed close together
hardware compatibility is always a criteria. Choose your hardware accordingly. Choose what works for you instead of complaining about what doesn't. If your case doesn't offer enough airflow and/or your mobo doesn't have enough spacing for crossfire, look elsewhere.
- still sitting at 95C, that can't be good for longevity no matter what AMD claims.. if not for your card then think of the waste heat being spewed into your case affecting your other components (with open-air coolers)
It's entirely possible that sitting at 95° will have absolutely no excessive adverse effect on component longevity if it's within design tolerances.
- you still have less headroom than, say, 7970 or 680 gave you. With those cards you got decent headroom even with reference cards and good cooling solutions, and better cooling gave you even more headroom. With R9 290/290X you get something that has been pre-oc/ov'd so it has almost no headroom left.. you need to crank to 60% fan just to get it to hit top stock speeds. So a card with better cooling merely gives you back a little headroom that you should have gotten in the first place.

Better cooling increases clock potential on any GPU. Again, you need to wrap your head around the way AMD's new Turbo works. Clocks and fan speed are adjusted to maintain a certain temp (95° in this example) up to a predetermined maximum (1000MHz stock 290X). That's just the way it's designed to work. You are free to not like it, but it doesn't make it bad.

I guess people who don't like messing with manual overclocks/volts might be ok with R9 290-series cards. Especially if they game with headphones. But for those of us who liked doing it ourselves, these GPUs are basically pre-oc/ov'd leaving virtually no headroom with reference cooler. Maybe you get back a few percent with good air coolers, but that's a far cry from cards like GTX 460 and HD 7950 that could oc 25%+ even with modest air coolers.

You are comparing it to cards who's clock speeds were set so they wouldn't infringe on the next level card's performance. Nothing to do with the idea of allowing more O/C'ing headroom. That was a side effect of purposely reducing performance for marketing reasons.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
CF DCUII 290s should win in FPS, video RAM, temperature, acoustics, and bang/buck, but not in power draw.

Ahh, I can hear it now:
"Sure, CF 290s give you 42% more FPS, but look at the power draw! You need a nuclear power plant to run that kind of setup. Of course, this is nothing like having SLI'd 480s because with 480s, you could at least fry a few eggs and make yourself some breakfast. You can't play video games AND make breakfast with CF 290s, and we all know how important it is to have breakfast. It's the most important meal of the day for crying out loud!"

LMAO!!! But on the 290s you can defrost cheap frozen cakes!
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I haven't heard any, maybe someone else has. But if I were to take a guess, I wouldn't be surprised if they launch around the same time as the 780Ti.

I heard they were going to release a R9 290X FTW on the same day and have it included with the 780ti reviews.
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
0
0
Ugh...seven hundred dollars for the 780 Ti.
Hard to see it being worth $150 more than R9 290X.
Looks like they turned up the clocks and its going to run hot n loud too.
That's awesome.:thumbsup:
Well maybe in game it will be much better than R9.
That's a lot of money for a video card tho,especially with R9 290 at $400.
 

hyrule4927

Senior member
Feb 9, 2012
359
1
76
Maybe despite being rotated at 45*, it was still enough to create a decent amount of contact with the GPU?



The Accelero III Tom's used has a square plate.

Interesting. I knew the Accelero III was compatible, but if that IceQ worked, seems like an Accelero 7970 should be a viable option as well.

 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
That diagonally rotated square on the bottom cooler looks very large. I bet it's sufficient to cover most of the GPU. Maybe a better option for you would to be sell the 7950 and wait for after-market versions though. One reason for that is improved VRM and components that will allow you to push higher overclocks.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
0
0
If those charts are accurate, looks like the noise levels will likely come under fire too. :whiste:

LOL, the GTX 780 Ti ref. is quieter than R9 290X ref. in "Quiet" mode, and way quieter than "Uber" mode. Perf. per watt and OC ability on air should be superior too.
 

ICDP

Senior member
Nov 15, 2012
707
0
0
LOL, the GTX 780 Ti ref. is quieter than R9 290X ref. in "Quiet" mode, and way quieter than "Uber" mode. Perf. per watt and OC ability on air should be superior too.

Those numbers could be from an R9 290X in Uber mode. They come from an Nvidia slide so would always show AMD in the worst possible light. Don't make bold claims until actual reviews are out because by many accounts the ref 780Ti is loud.

I know R9 290 reference cards are loud, so this is not a defence of AMD post.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
0
0
Those numbers could be from an R9 290X in Uber mode. They come from an Nvidia slide so would always show AMD in the worst possible light.

Those certainly are not NVIDIA slides (and as far as I can tell, Videocardz doesn't actually have a GTX 780 Ti in their possession). Most reviewers have measured a 9-12dB difference in sound pressure levels between GTX Titan and R9 290X in "Uber" mode. On a side note, a reference GTX 780 should be at least 2-3dB quieter than a reference GTX Titan (as you can see from Anandtech's review). As you said, we will have to wait and see.
 
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