AMD doesn't sell the completed cards directly to retailers... they sell chips and PCBs to AIB partners who manufacture them, package them, and THEN sell to distributors and retailers.
This is a problem AMD clearly needs to address, but has not. There are a lot of companies out there who will completely remove you as a reseller for selling above msrp. Instead AMD just sits there while gamers walk over to Nvidia because there are no false pricing with their cards. Meanwhile AMD thinks all of these cards being sold are for gamers... Wake up!
Save your speech for supply and demand because this goes far beyond that. At any rate, I'm unable to find legitimately priced 290s so I'm moving to Nvidia now. Mantle has been a pretty sketchy launch, cards are overpriced and AMD is still in this sort of limbo.
Hope they get it together but I'm done waiting.
This is a problem AMD clearly needs to address, but has not. There are a lot of companies out there who will completely remove you as a reseller for selling above msrp. Instead AMD just sits there while gamers walk over to Nvidia because there are no false pricing with their cards. Meanwhile AMD thinks all of these cards being sold are for gamers... Wake up!
Save your speech for supply and demand because this goes far beyond that. At any rate, I'm unable to find legitimately priced 290s so I'm moving to Nvidia now. Mantle has been a pretty sketchy launch, cards are overpriced and AMD is still in this sort of limbo.
Hope they get it together but I'm done waiting.
What AMD is doing is purposeful. They could cripple their gaming cards for mining and sell an uncrippled GPGPU/Mining version if they wanted. They want the hype and sales.
I find it telling that even given the performance and mining craze that AMD felt they couldn't push the MSRP up for launch. Contrast that with Nvidia's mindshare that allows for a $750 780 TI and a $1,000 Titan.
What AMD is doing is purposeful. They could cripple their gaming cards for mining and sell an uncrippled GPGPU/Mining version if they wanted. They want the hype and sales.
I find it telling that even given the performance and mining craze that AMD felt they couldn't push the MSRP up for launch. Contrast that with Nvidia's mindshare that allows for a $750 780 TI and a $1,000 Titan.
This is a problem AMD clearly needs to address, but has not. There are a lot of companies out there who will completely remove you as a reseller for selling above msrp. Instead AMD just sits there while gamers walk over to Nvidia because there are no false pricing with their cards. Meanwhile AMD thinks all of these cards being sold are for gamers... Wake up!
Save your speech for supply and demand because this goes far beyond that. At any rate, I'm unable to find legitimately priced 290s so I'm moving to Nvidia now. Mantle has been a pretty sketchy launch, cards are overpriced and AMD is still in this sort of limbo.
Hope they get it together but I'm done waiting.
Would it be an issue, even if prices are the same on ebay vs newegg etc.? Should Newegg keep tabs on going prices on ebay, and then increase their prices when people are willing to pay a lot for something? I think right now they just automatically have an algorithm to increase prices when supplies are low and people keep buying, and decrease prices when not many people are buying or stock is piling up.
For me, I definitely dislike the mining craze and hate that it raises prices all around. But for the miner sitting there pulling his hair out because he can't find a video card anywhere, I bet he wishes that Newegg would charge more so that us mere mortal gamers wouldn't buy his card and Newegg would still be in stock. He wants Newegg to outbid us for him, and he wants to pay Newegg to do that to us. So I don't really blame newegg here. They would be foolish to give away cards at a low price, because that's just throwing money away and also pissing off miners. Now, consider, who should newegg cater to here? Should they appease gamers who buy 1 card every 2-3 years, or miners who buy every single card available in stock regardless of price? Also, I don't blame newegg because surely they are sitting there thinking "Hey, this will piss off gamers if we raise prices on AMD cards!, oh wait, nevermind, we have all the Nvidia cards in stock so there is still choice, so lets just raise prices to keep more AMD cards in stock for the miners to buy"
Where would they get these additional cards/chips to cripple? If they had them they could simply increase supply to the market and sell more cards. Manufacturing at TSMC isn't something where you can simply ask for twice as many chips next month.
AMD provides the GPU and reference design. The manufacturers like Sapphire, MSI, Asus and so on make the cards and sell them through the channels. Would you expect Denso to step in if Nissan dealers were jacking up the price of cars across the country?
Secondly, how does this go beyond supply and demand? Putting artificial barriers on prices is not going to magically increase supply anyways.
I doubt miners are exactly jumping for joy at being price gouged either. That's a lot of extra money to make up per card. If newegg were out of stock selling them at MSRP they'd still be on ebay at inflated price. Only people would at least have a chance at buying at MSRP.
Its kinda like saying we should be happy that the box office is scalping tickets directly instead of 3rd party scalper.
Whatever though. It ups the scumbag factor of Newegg and other resellers to me. Up to them if they want to worry about it.
You don't actually believe they have a real supply issue do you?
First, I never said they had a supply issue. I was simply stating that manufacturing on the level that TSMC does isn't fluid. You need to place your orders many months ahead of time. Likely a year at least. You can't simply ask them to make you more. You also can't simply tell them to never mind because you over estimated demand. Remember what happened to AMD with GF when their CPU/APU sales didn't hit projections? They had to pay them $320M to reduce their purchase commitment. If AMD decided to up production at TSMC, assuming they even can, it's the equivalent of playing Russian roulette with the mining market. They'd be better of to simply invest directly in BTC, than take the risk on ordering product that might not sell if the GPU mining market takes a downturn.
As far as the supply, we can only go by the evidence. You find someone, like Amazon for example, who is selling models for MSRP and they are on back order. So, are you saying that there are plenty of cards and AMD is holding them back to artificially increase demand? There's no evidence of that. I'll point to them being completely sold out on Newegg before they increased at retail. Newegg's retail is controlled by a bot that dynamically adjusts pricing with demand. It all seems pretty simple and non nefarious. Purely market driven.
If that was the case, you wouldn't be finding these cards in the masses across Europe and places like Australia and New Zealand. The cards are in stock there without the mining tax to boot. It's quite irritating to be honest.
I run across more gamers in bf4 with 7xxx cards thn actual r9s. That has to be alarming to anyone at AMD. The ones who do have r9s are the guys who got the reference cards with the bf4 bundle.
Well the difference between the 2 is Nvidia does support gamers and builds cards for that purpose. Ever since AMD took over ATI, it's been a real disaster. They are not in touch with gamers and will always be known as the "poor mans" card.
The 290/X could of changed their place in the gaming market but again, it almost looks like their marketing dept continues to steer them in the wrong direction. AMD is in dire need of proper direction in regards to radeon gaming. Retailers should of immediately been slapped on the hands for overpricing and AMD themselves should of sold cards direct to get these things into the hands of gamers.
They should sell a mining card with more brute force at a much higher price. I could careless if they sell a crippled card that can't mine. 290M would be a good start...
If that was the case, you wouldn't be finding these cards in the masses across Europe and places like Australia and New Zealand. The cards are in stock there without the mining tax to boot. It's quite irritating to be honest.
I run across more gamers in bf4 with 7xxx cards thn actual r9s. That has to be alarming to anyone at AMD. The ones who do have r9s are the guys who got the reference cards with the bf4 bundle.
Well the difference between the 2 is Nvidia does support gamers and builds cards for that purpose. Ever since AMD took over ATI, it's been a real disaster. They are not in touch with gamers and will always be known as the "poor mans" card.
The 290/X could of changed their place in the gaming market but again, it almost looks like their marketing dept continues to steer them in the wrong direction. AMD is in dire need of proper direction in regards to radeon gaming. Retailers should of immediately been slapped on the hands for overpricing and AMD themselves should of sold cards direct to get these things into the hands of gamers.
They should sell a mining card with more brute force at a much higher price. I could careless if they sell a crippled card that can't mine. 290M would be a good start...
So you would rather go to nVidia? Have you already forgotten the Titan @ $1K and what the 780 sold for before AMD forced them to reduce prices? That's was purely on nVidia too. It wasn't the market that drove the price up after they released. Sorry, but you aren't making sense, mate. :\
Titan is still $1k. It is what it is. I'm not talking about selling a unique product for whatever you want to charge for it because nobody else has the product.
When the Titan was released, it had its MSRP. That was that. I could buy a titan for a grand if wanted to then, and I can now. Can we say that for the R9s? Nope. And yes, it is more due to the resellers like Newegg, who I will not be purchasing from anymore. As I mentoned earlier, Amazon has been pretty good about keeping whatever stock they can get at or near MSRP. I respect that and I will be ordering from them when I pull the trigger next week on my new rig.
It still reflects on AMD. It's their brand. DO I even WANT to go NVidia? No, I always supported AMD as a company over intel and NVidia. My last rig, I went intel because at th time it was so far ahead of anything I could get from AMD I "went to the dark side". Thermal issues, speed, overclocking ability, my i5 was just miles ahead of anything I could get from AMD, and I was really tired of my old 6000+ running hot as the blazes of hell. I felt terrible doing it, too. I wanted to support AMD, and I continued to with my card. My 5850, 4850 before that, X1900 pro before that, my 4200+, the 5000+ still in my wife's dinosaur of a PC, my old Thunderbird, I've shown a lot of support for AMD intentionally. I fully intended with this build to keep with AMD.
But not at such an insane premium over the similar- performance NVidia card. Not a chance. Not at literally $150 or more over the MSRP. That's the real difference. If you dont feel it's shady, great, but the retailers selling them at such insanely inflated prices, and AMD doing nothing to stop it doesnt sit well with me.
I'm not questioning your loyalty or buying patterns. I'm just trying to tell you that your logic and understanding of the situation is flawed. When you state things on a public forum that aren't accurate, someone's going to point it out. You are free to buy whatever you want to, obviously. There's nothing wrong with nVidia cards. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. Peace.
I'm not questioning your loyalty or buying patterns. I'm just trying to tell you that your logic and understanding of the situation is flawed. When you state things on a public forum that aren't accurate, someone's going to point it out. You are free to buy whatever you want to, obviously. There's nothing wrong with nVidia cards. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. Peace.
I'm not questioning your loyalty or buying patterns. I'm just trying to tell you that your logic and understanding of the situation is flawed. When you state things on a public forum that aren't accurate, someone's going to point it out. You are free to buy whatever you want to, obviously. There's nothing wrong with nVidia cards. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. Peace.
Indeed. Titan being $1k as dictated by Nvidia is ok, but retailers gouging the price of AMD cards due to Demand is AMDs fault?
I think I am still being somewhat misunderstood. Like I said in my previous post, AMD set an MSRP based on what their costs were, how much they thought the market would bear, and what would get them a profit. Awesome.
Now the demand is so high that retailers are charging every last dime they can get for the cards, the MSRP is thrown to the wind, it's the wild west, oooh look we got 20 R9s in, charge every last dime we can sell 'em for. Yes, that's capitalism, yes, capitalism is based in part on greed. I get that and I'm not going to suggest that someone should be punished for it. But we arent talking about a small premium here. We're talking charging 150% of the MSRP or more. Frankly, I'm surprised that there are people who DONT get a bad taste from this. But that's the free market.