Racial income gap widens in U.S.

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
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A study shows growing disparity between white and black households.
From the Associated Press
November 13, 2007


Decades after the civil rights movement, the income gap between black and white families has grown, says a study that tracked the incomes of 2,300 families for more than 30 years.

Incomes have increased among both black and white families in the last three decades -- mainly because more women are in the workforce. But the increase was greater among whites, according to the study being released today.

One reason for the growing disparity: Incomes among black men have declined in the last three decades, when adjusted for inflation. They were offset only by gains among black women.

Incomes among white men, meanwhile, were relatively stagnant, while those of white women increased more than fivefold.

"Overall, incomes are going up. But not all children are benefiting equally from the American dream," said Julia Isaacs, a fellow at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank.

Isaacs wrote a series of three reports that looked at the incomes of parents in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and of their grown children 30 years later.

Parents have long hoped that their children would grow up to be more successful than they were. Hopes were especially high for black children who came of age after the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

The reports found that about two-thirds of the children surveyed grew up to have higher family incomes than their parents had 30 years earlier.

Grown black children were as likely as whites to have higher incomes than their parents. Incomes among whites, however, increased more than those of their black counterparts.

The result: In 2004, a typical black family had an income that was only 58% of a typical white family's. In 1974, median black incomes were 63% those of whites.

"Too many Americans, whites and even some blacks, think that the playing field has indeed leveled," said Marc Morial, president of the National Urban League.

It has not, he added.

"We are like fingers on the hand," Morial said of black and white Americans. "We are on the same hand, but we are separate fingers."

Morial blamed the disparities on inadequate schools in black neighborhoods, workplace discrimination and too many black families with only one parent.

"The public policy commitment to this has been sketchy over the last 30 years," Morial said. "There has not been a real focus on this."

Perhaps most disturbing, middle-income black families do not appear to be passing on higher incomes to their children in the same way that white families have, Isaacs said.

She found that only one in three black children from middle-income families grew up to have higher incomes than their parents.

"That means a majority ended up slipping down," Isaacs said.

Among whites, about two-thirds of the children from middle-income families grew up to have higher incomes than their parents, she said.

On a positive note, black children from poor families were much more likely to grow up to have higher incomes than their parents, Isaacs said.

Isaacs compiled the reports for the Economic Mobility Project, a collaboration of senior economists and researchers from four Washington think tanks that span the ideological spectrum. The project is funded and managed by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

Isaacs used survey data from the Panel Study of Income Dynamics, which is conducted at the University of Michigan.
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I also thought the playing field was being leveled. :Q

 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.

Ummm...maybe it was....you know....and I'm just taking a shot here.....the drugs that actually devastated black family life.

I mean maybe I'm just speaking out of my ass here....but maybe if the people selling/doing/making the drugs hadn't been doing so they wouldn't have been subject to these "stiff" laws.
 

NaughtyGeek

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
1,065
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That study is BS unless it was taken in the suburbs which I'd bet dollars to pesos it wasn't. The disparity in income progression has much less to do with factors in the workforce than it does factors in the neighborhood. What percentage of the black population used for this study came from a two parent household as opposed to the whites? How many of the blacks tracked for this study come from urban centers with high concentrations of gang and gun violence vs. the whites? There are many factors at work here and the work force isn't one of them. Maybe you can find a mom and pop operation that won't hire or pay a black person the same as a white, but do you think major corporations with the constant threat of litigation could get away with disproportionate wages based merely on race? This is nothing more than a study conducted by someone with an agenda. They found the target group they needed to prove their point and went with it. More propaganda to spread hate amongst us pure and simple.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.

Ummm...maybe it was....you know....and I'm just taking a shot here.....the drugs that actually devastated black family life.

I mean maybe I'm just speaking out of my ass here....but maybe if the people selling/doing/making the drugs hadn't been doing so they wouldn't have been subject to these "stiff" laws.

Yes and no. As I said in my post, I am not trying to make excuses, but some of the laws (in particular, the federal laws that have, since the late 1980s, treated crack cocaine one hundred times more harshly than powdered cocaine for sentencing purposes - 1g of crack has been treated like 100g of cocaine - this just changed on 11/1/07) have had incredibly disparate impacts on black people. That is not to say crack is not a problem - it was a ruinous problem in the early 1990s - but laws that more or less consistently impact black people more than white people have not helped with the racial income divide.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
91
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
That study is BS unless it was taken in the suburbs which I'd bet dollars to pesos it wasn't. The disparity in income progression has much less to do with factors in the workforce than it does factors in the neighborhood. What percentage of the black population used for this study came from a two parent household as opposed to the whites? How many of the blacks tracked for this study come from urban centers with high concentrations of gang and gun violence vs. the whites? There are many factors at work here and the work force isn't one of them. Maybe you can find a mom and pop operation that won't hire or pay a black person the same as a white, but do you think major corporations with the constant threat of litigation could get away with disproportionate wages based merely on race? This is nothing more than a study conducted by someone with an agenda. They found the target group they needed to prove their point and went with it. More propaganda to spread hate amongst us pure and simple.

You clearly didn't read, or even scan, the OP. You might want to before you comment.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.
 

NaughtyGeek

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
1,065
0
71
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.

Ummm...maybe it was....you know....and I'm just taking a shot here.....the drugs that actually devastated black family life.

I mean maybe I'm just speaking out of my ass here....but maybe if the people selling/doing/making the drugs hadn't been doing so they wouldn't have been subject to these "stiff" laws.

Maybe they're selling them because it's the best opportunity available to them where they live. Maybe they started doing the drugs because the conditions they've been subjected to all their lives are absolutely horrid and drugs were the only relief they could find available to them. Maybe they made the drugs in an attempt to earn a wage to feed their family as that's the best option they could come up with. It's real easy to blame these social issues on drugs, but I'm not buying it. Do you not find it odd that you know how devastating that the drugs are but somehow people in those areas actually affected by widespread drug use just can't seem to figure that out?
 

NaughtyGeek

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
1,065
0
71
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
That study is BS unless it was taken in the suburbs which I'd bet dollars to pesos it wasn't. The disparity in income progression has much less to do with factors in the workforce than it does factors in the neighborhood. What percentage of the black population used for this study came from a two parent household as opposed to the whites? How many of the blacks tracked for this study come from urban centers with high concentrations of gang and gun violence vs. the whites? There are many factors at work here and the work force isn't one of them. Maybe you can find a mom and pop operation that won't hire or pay a black person the same as a white, but do you think major corporations with the constant threat of litigation could get away with disproportionate wages based merely on race? This is nothing more than a study conducted by someone with an agenda. They found the target group they needed to prove their point and went with it. More propaganda to spread hate amongst us pure and simple.

You clearly didn't read, or even scan, the OP. You might want to before you comment.

I read and understood the whole mess. They stated poor and middle income, not social environment. Poverty and surrounding social conditions are two different things and the study, at least in how it was presented her, did not take that into account.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
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Originally posted by: Ozoned

"The public policy commitment to this has been sketchy over the last 30 years," Morial said. "There has not been a real focus on this."



Except at election time when the promises come out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the drug angle; A lot of our economy is underground......

 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.

Ummm...maybe it was....you know....and I'm just taking a shot here.....the drugs that actually devastated black family life.

I mean maybe I'm just speaking out of my ass here....but maybe if the people selling/doing/making the drugs hadn't been doing so they wouldn't have been subject to these "stiff" laws.

Maybe they're selling them because it's the best opportunity available to them where they live. Maybe they started doing the drugs because the conditions they've been subjected to all their lives are absolutely horrid and drugs were the only relief they could find available to them. Maybe they made the drugs in an attempt to earn a wage to feed their family as that's the best option they could come up with. It's real easy to blame these social issues on drugs, but I'm not buying it. Do you not find it odd that you know how devastating that the drugs are but somehow people in those areas actually affected by widespread drug use just can't seem to figure that out?

It is a dangerous combination of laziness, stupidity and expecting someone else(usually the government) to make their lives better for them.

I don't, and never will, buy the "but it was the environment they were born into" excuse.

Both of my parents were dirt poor growing up. I mean DIRT FUCKING POOR. Hell my Grandparents on my Dad's side didn't have electricity or indoor plumbing until the mid 1960's. They both came from large families, which was common back then and both of their lives were hell when they were growing up. Many times they had nothing to eat, lived in small shacks that were made of whatever they could scrounge, dirt floors, etc, etc, etc....

Anyway....they and all their siblings have made something of themselves. They worked their asses off, had good jobs and made a nice life for themselves. Out of my Dad and his siblings, of which there are 4, 2 of them are now millionaires and all the rest while not having that kind of money do live comfortably and had good jobs before they retired. On my Mom's there were 7 kids and 2 of them are millionaires as well. Of those 7 kids there was only one of them that never really made anything of himself and that was mostly because he became an alcoholic at a young age and never pulled himself out of it. Yeah it is a disease, but he also had that dangerous combination of laziness, stupidity and always wanting to sponge off someone else.

My point is that nobody has to sell, make or do drugs to make their life better. All they have to do is be willing to work for it.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.

I watched a show on the History channel about the War on Drugs. The people who were on there all asked the question "If the framers of the Harrison Narcotic Tax Act of 1914 knew what the snowball effect of that act was on the public 80 years later, would they still pass it?"

No doubt imo the war on drugs has ripped apart parts of our economy and population. And has it really stopped or even curtailed the use of drugs in any meaningful way?

 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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Originally posted by: Genx87

No doubt imo the war on drugs has ripped apart parts of our economy and population. And has it really stopped or even curtailed the use of drugs in any meaningful way?

Well, seeing as cocaine is now CHEAPER than it was in 1980, it's hard to call it a success. How many things can you say that about?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Originally posted by: Genx87

No doubt imo the war on drugs has ripped apart parts of our economy and population. And has it really stopped or even curtailed the use of drugs in any meaningful way?

Well, seeing as cocaine is now CHEAPER than it was in 1980, it's hard to call it a success. How many things can you say that about?

If we were serious about the war on drugs we would call up one of the big phamaceutical companies and say "Ok, we need a pill that makes you feel like you just did 3 lines of high grade coke off a stripper's tits. We need it to be cheap, have minimal side effects and not be addictive."

They've probably had it for years and invented it by accident when they were trying to invent a hair growth pill but just haven't had a market for it.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
One important cause of this IMO, and one that article doesn't mention, is the collateral effects of the "war on drugs." In practice, the "war on drugs," which began under Reagan, has had an incredibly disparate impact on young black men, perpetuating and aggravating the existing problem of single-parent homes in black communities in the inner city. I write that not to make excuses for deadbeat dads who commit crimes, but facts are facts, and the very stiff drug laws in effect over the past 30 years have devastated black family life. Actually researchers at the University of Minnesota (where I live) have done some very compelling research on this topic, and it's of particular interest to me because my mother is the Executive Director of the state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission.

I watched a show on the History channel about the War on Drugs. The people who were on there all asked the question "If the framers of the Harrison Narcotic Tax Act of 1914 knew what the snowball effect of that act was on the public 80 years later, would they still pass it?"

No doubt imo the war on drugs has ripped apart parts of our economy and population. And has it really stopped or even curtailed the use of drugs in any meaningful way?

The war on drugs is a great example of one of the big failings of democracy. Sure, it's a silly idea, but anyone who tries to oppose it will be a target for BS saying they want to hand out free crack on the playground. It's a perfect example of something few individuals really believe, but that for some reason society collectively buys into.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Maybe this is because an allarming number of Black Families only have one parent. Maybe this is more of a Deadbeat Dad problem. If more Black Men stepped up to the plate and took care of their children and married their children's mother, and became real men this disparity would not exist.

It is time for Black men to stand up and be real men.
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
3,990
6
81
Originally posted by: charrison
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.

I never understand this. In the ghetto a lot of children think if you study and pay attention in class (i.e. reading books, passing test) Your selling yourself out to the white man. What's up with this type of thinking!!!!!!!!!!
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
3,990
6
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe this is because an allarming number of Black Families only have one parent. Maybe this is more of a Deadbeat Dad problem. If more Black Men stepped up to the plate and took care of their children and married their children's mother, and became real men this disparity would not exist.

It is time for Black men to stand up and be real men.

But the question is why...... Yes there are problems but they never get fixed. And mainly the African American Communites don't like to hear about it. If you or I stand up and say listen your people have these problems that's preventing you with reaching our goal we are called racist.......
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe this is because an allarming number of Black Families only have one parent. Maybe this is more of a Deadbeat Dad problem. If more Black Men stepped up to the plate and took care of their children and married their children's mother, and became real men this disparity would not exist.

It is time for Black men to stand up and be real men.

But the question is why...... Yes there are problems but they never get fixed. And mainly the African American Communites don't like to hear about it. If you or I stand up and say listen your people have these problems that's preventing you with reaching our goal we are called racist.......
He is right and so are you.

The numbers show quite clearly that a great many Black men end up in jail and have illegitimate kids, aren't around, etc. As a White, relaying this information requires such delicacy as to be unreasonable, and so what most of us do is just watch the Black community continue to underimpress with little recourse.

However, many Blacks are aware of it. We know about Bill Cosby of course, but some leaders (not just Sharpton, et al.) are keenly aware that a lot of this has to do with standards and expectations of males, among other things.
 

beyoku

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2003
1,568
1
71
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Originally posted by: Genx87

No doubt imo the war on drugs has ripped apart parts of our economy and population. And has it really stopped or even curtailed the use of drugs in any meaningful way?

Well, seeing as cocaine is now CHEAPER than it was in 1980, it's hard to call it a success. How many things can you say that about?

If we were serious about the war on drugs we would call up one of the big phamaceutical companies and say "Ok, we need a pill that makes you feel like you just did 3 lines of high grade coke off a stripper's tits. We need it to be cheap, have minimal side effects and not be addictive."

They've probably had it for years and invented it by accident when they were trying to invent a hair growth pill but just haven't had a market for it.

LOL, they already do. You see the advertisements for them on tv all the time.
See psychotropic drugs
Some of these do EXACTLY what a line of cocaine or crack would do to you. These drugs are legal by prescription and highly abused.
 

beyoku

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2003
1,568
1
71
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: charrison
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.

I never understand this. In the ghetto a lot of children think if you study and pay attention in class (i.e. reading books, passing test) Your selling yourself out to the white man. What's up with this type of thinking!!!!!!!!!!

Do you live in the Ghetto? How do you know this is true? When i grew up i was poor and at one point my family (mother, 6 kids) were homeless. Your are an idiot if you think me, or any other people WANT to grow up in the gutter. You would be hard pressed to find more than 5% of black Americans that think with the mythical stereotype that you described. What you are describing are fringe ideas expressed by a population of people that probably 99% of AT'ers would not get the opportunity to hear. Where where you when you heard this? Corporate America? a project stairway in south Chicago? The Zoo? Its not true............
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: beyoku
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: charrison
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.

I never understand this. In the ghetto a lot of children think if you study and pay attention in class (i.e. reading books, passing test) Your selling yourself out to the white man. What's up with this type of thinking!!!!!!!!!!

Do you live in the Ghetto? How do you know this is true? When i grew up i was poor and at one point my family (mother, 6 kids) were homeless. Your are an idiot if you think me, or any other people WANT to grow up in the gutter. You would be hard pressed to find more than 5% of black Americans that think with the mythical stereotype that you described. What you are describing are fringe ideas expressed by a population of people that probably 99% of AT'ers would not get the opportunity to hear. Where where you when you heard this? Corporate America? a project stairway in south Chicago? The Zoo? Its not true............
He said "a lot" not "all". Regardless of any stereotype any group claims to subscribe to, reality speaks louder than words. In Rochester, NY, the graduation rate in the inner city is 39% for highschool. In the suburbs, where kids get JUST AS MUCH MONEY for education in the public schools, the graduation rate is in the 90's. Why do you think that is? Education is simply not celebrated as something very important, comparitively, as it is in the 'burbs. Graduating highschool is not hard, anybody can do it if they want to, but either the desire is not there in some inner city students or it is there but they have no support from their family/peers or whatever, but the culture in a 39% graduation rate area is not one that celebrates education, that much is not debateable.

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Nonsense, as usual.

The problem lies with society in the Black Community. Bill Cosby has been very outspoken about it, but few heed his message.

Quit making excuses and get with the program. That's my message.
 
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