Racial income gap widens in U.S.

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Yes and no. As I said in my post, I am not trying to make excuses, but some of the laws (in particular, the federal laws that have, since the late 1980s, treated crack cocaine one hundred times more harshly than powdered cocaine for sentencing purposes - 1g of crack has been treated like 100g of cocaine - this just changed on 11/1/07) have had incredibly disparate impacts on black people. That is not to say crack is not a problem - it was a ruinous problem in the early 1990s - but laws that more or less consistently impact black people more than white people have not helped with the racial income divide.

QFT. whites do coke, blacks do crack. cokeheads get rehab, crackheads go to jail.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: charrison
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.

I never understand this. In the ghetto a lot of children think if you study and pay attention in class (i.e. reading books, passing test) Your selling yourself out to the white man. What's up with this type of thinking!!!!!!!!!!

Do you live in the Ghetto? How do you know this is true? When i grew up i was poor and at one point my family (mother, 6 kids) were homeless. Your are an idiot if you think me, or any other people WANT to grow up in the gutter. You would be hard pressed to find more than 5% of black Americans that think with the mythical stereotype that you described. What you are describing are fringe ideas expressed by a population of people that probably 99% of AT'ers would not get the opportunity to hear. Where where you when you heard this? Corporate America? a project stairway in south Chicago? The Zoo? Its not true............

I was born with a variety of learning disabilities as well as ADD and ADHD. I was put on Ritalin and seeing neurologist/psychologist on a reg basis. They did little to help as my middle school grades were quite poor and I went from psychologist to psychologist. You know that expression "if you don't have your kid by middle school you will never have him" that was me in middle and high. I was put in Directed Courses in middle school. I was lost and my parents provided little support. As my dad (held a Phd in Nuclear eng and worked for fed gov) disowned me and was disappointed because he knew I couldn't be (M.D.) what he dreamed. My mom provided little support and was uneducated herself enough not to help me and thought everything my dad said was true. I moved around a lot at least 5 to 6 times during my childhood. At one point I moved in an area by which you could call a "ghetto" where I attended one grade and was bullied on a constant basis. As a matter of fact I was bullied from 1 - 12.

I left my parents house at 17. A got a place to live. I throughout high school though took a lot of math courses (even though I had a hard time on it) because I had belief in myself. I was able to get accepted in a University and Got my B.S. in Computer Science. I later married and have a 2 yo daughter currently. I also own a house. I'm working on my Master's right now and pulling down around 55K a year at the age of 24 and I'm due for being promoted. I will eventually go for a PhD but I'm not sure where. I'm still plagued with my various learning disabilities that I've found ways to work around without drugs.

WITH LITTLE SUPPORT FROM OTHERS I DID MY RESPONSABILITY IN SOCIETY TO MAKE SURE I BECAME SOMETHING. REGARDLESS OF MY VARIOUS PROBLEMS AND EXTERNAL SOCIAL FACTORS.

The ghetto gets more funding then other places particulally areas that have no problems like the ghetto does. So do schools with particully low grad stats. I got little help from anybody. However, I took advantage of whatever I could. I'm doing better at my age then most people Iknew who graduated with far better predictions.

 

[StageLeft]

steppinthrax :thumbsup:

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: charrison
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.

I never understand this. In the ghetto a lot of children think if you study and pay attention in class (i.e. reading books, passing test) Your selling yourself out to the white man. What's up with this type of thinking!!!!!!!!!!

Do you live in the Ghetto? How do you know this is true? When i grew up i was poor and at one point my family (mother, 6 kids) were homeless. Your are an idiot if you think me, or any other people WANT to grow up in the gutter. You would be hard pressed to find more than 5% of black Americans that think with the mythical stereotype that you described. What you are describing are fringe ideas expressed by a population of people that probably 99% of AT'ers would not get the opportunity to hear. Where where you when you heard this? Corporate America? a project stairway in south Chicago? The Zoo? Its not true............

He said "a lot" not "all". Regardless of any stereotype any group claims to subscribe to, reality speaks louder than words. In Rochester, NY, the graduation rate in the inner city is 39% for highschool. In the suburbs, where kids get JUST AS MUCH MONEY for education in the public schools, the graduation rate is in the 90's. Why do you think that is? Education is simply not celebrated as something very important, comparitively, as it is in the 'burbs. Graduating highschool is not hard, anybody can do it if they want to, but either the desire is not there in some inner city students or it is there but they have no support from their family/peers or whatever, but the culture in a 39% graduation rate area is not one that celebrates education, that much is not debateable.

Good stat but does that say something about the school or something about the children? You say that equal money is given to the school but what about the staff? How does one go about authoritatively prescribing black peoples 'studying and paying attention to = selling out to white people.' How did you make that conclusion? How did your conclusion come to have anything to do with race? For what its worth the actual definition of "Sell out" was one who's actions proved detrimental to themselves and the greater Black Community. Being a "Sell out" has NEVER had anything to do with making positive choices regardless of how WHITE FOLKS want to spin the definition. There are many issues at hand. And the hardest ones cannot be solved by black folks alone..............As if white people dont have problems and shouldn't be responsible for their own shortcomings. Study after study after study will state:

-Blacks (in similar positions as whites) make less money corporate America.
-White 'sounding' names are more desirable than 'black names' for employment when credentials are exactly the same. - BLIND STUDY
-White felons have a better chance of getting employment than blacks with no criminal record. (Do you realize how freaking HUGE this is???)
- ETC
And even though we have affirmative actions that doesnt put a DENT into an issue of me(with no record) loosing a job to a white felon when qualifications are the same. As you would say the numbers dont lie, and A.A. doesnt really help that much......and If your a black felon your might as well forget about it, no one wants to hire you.

Yes black people for the most part dont want to hear when they are doing poor ass job as citizens in society...They already know it. Just as white folks dont want to see a study basically saying when it comes to employment in a major city like NYC they are racist as hell. Where is the commentary? Why do white folks dismiss studies like this....they make new ones every year to confirm the facts....I will tell you why. Because THEY DONT AFFECT WHITES. Just about every topic for the last 100 years when it comes to race has the same conclusion:
All the problems that black people can change affects black people.
All the problems that white people can changes affects black people.
Black people get the short end of the stick every time. This issue is as old as slavery itself.
OTOH why are African immigrants so successful? Why are they the most educationally achieved group in the US ----above all (yeah, even Asians and whites). What are the difference between Africans in America and Black Americans?

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: charrison
I am guessing the black social stigma of being successful being construed as acting white does not help much either.

I never understand this. In the ghetto a lot of children think if you study and pay attention in class (i.e. reading books, passing test) Your selling yourself out to the white man. What's up with this type of thinking!!!!!!!!!!

Do you live in the Ghetto? How do you know this is true? When i grew up i was poor and at one point my family (mother, 6 kids) were homeless. Your are an idiot if you think me, or any other people WANT to grow up in the gutter. You would be hard pressed to find more than 5% of black Americans that think with the mythical stereotype that you described. What you are describing are fringe ideas expressed by a population of people that probably 99% of AT'ers would not get the opportunity to hear. Where where you when you heard this? Corporate America? a project stairway in south Chicago? The Zoo? Its not true............

I was born with a variety of learning disabilities as well as ADD and ADHD. I was put on Ritalin and seeing neurologist/psychologist on a reg basis. They did little to help as my middle school grades were quite poor and I went from psychologist to psychologist. You know that expression "if you don't have your kid by middle school you will never have him" that was me in middle and high. I was put in Directed Courses in middle school. I was lost and my parents provided little support. As my dad (held a Phd in Nuclear eng and worked for fed gov) disowned me and was disappointed because he knew I couldn't be (M.D.) what he dreamed. My mom provided little support and was uneducated herself enough not to help me and thought everything my dad said was true. I moved around a lot at least 5 to 6 times during my childhood. At one point I moved in an area by which you could call a "ghetto" where I attended one grade and was bullied on a constant basis. As a matter of fact I was bullied from 1 - 12.

I left my parents house at 17. A got a place to live. I throughout high school though took a lot of math courses (even though I had a hard time on it) because I had belief in myself. I was able to get accepted in a University and Got my B.S. in Computer Science. I later married and have a 2 yo daughter currently. I also own a house. I'm working on my Master's right now and pulling down around 55K a year at the age of 24 and I'm due for being promoted. I will eventually go for a PhD but I'm not sure where. I'm still plagued with my various learning disabilities that I've found ways to work around without drugs.

WITH LITTLE SUPPORT FROM OTHERS I DID MY RESPONSABILITY IN SOCIETY TO MAKE SURE I BECAME SOMETHING. REGARDLESS OF MY VARIOUS PROBLEMS AND EXTERNAL SOCIAL FACTORS.

The ghetto gets more funding then other places particulally areas that have no problems like the ghetto does. So do schools with particully low grad stats. I got little help from anybody. However, I took advantage of whatever I could. I'm doing better at my age then most people Iknew who graduated with far better predictions.

First off im sorry you had "variety of learning disabilities" I dont even know what that would mean but look at the resources you have compared to others.............you went to a Psychologist. Father with a Phd in nuke eng and works with the Gov? Did he pay child support? How many siblings do you have. Im an not sure inner city schools get more funding, as a matter of fact its seems that is what everyone has been talking about for the last 10 years. You have a nice story. But your dad has a Phd. Do you not see how your ideas regarding education compare with someones dad that grew up in jim crow days and maybe worked for as a mechanic, or a deadbeat dad? Or a dad in Prison? THese people have different ideas regarding what you have to do to be successful. Or do you thinik Einstein would have been the Einstein that he was regardless of where her was born? It can take generations to get out of poverty but only one to put you in it. I have no excuse for poor black peoples behavior. Cosby was NOT totally right. No child should be shot in the back of the head by police for "stealing a piece of pound cake" People keep saying cosby but has anyone listened to exactly what he said in its entirety?

 

[P229SAS]

Originally posted by: beyoku
OTOH why are African immigrants so successful? Why are they the most educationally achieved group in the US ----above all (yeah, even Asians and whites). What are the difference between Africans in America and Black Americans?

Do you have links to sources for that? I'd be interested in reading more on it.

 

[ManyBeers]

Gee the article didn't mention Asians, i wonder how they do against blacks incomewise?

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Gee the article didn't mention Asians, i wonder how they do against blacks incomewise?

Asians are on top. The income stats usually are like this.

Asian
White
Hispanic
Black

Education stats are like that.

Asian
White
Black/hispanic (trade spaces every once and a while)

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Gee the article didn't mention Asians, i wonder how they do against blacks incomewise?

Asians are on top. The income stats usually are like this.

Asian
White
Hispanic
Black

Education stats are like that.

Asian
White
Black/hispanic (trade spaces every once and a while)

Gee ! i had no idea.

 

[StageLeft]

beyoku

You are right that these issues mostly don't affect Whites.

Regarding students vs. schools, yes the students are losers and the schools probably aren't quite as good because teachers hate working in an environment with loser kids and violence. I have read from teachers who work in this specific school system and they cannot bear it, so they generally leave. The city has tried attracting better teachers with more money but you spend your way to an educated mass when the support isn't there. I've read countless threads on another board about the schools in this city and the solutions presented are always different but the causes of the problem are not and that's that the family background is injurious and does not support the students in the way the suburb students are supported. People have a tendency to rise to expectations. When your older sister got knocked up at 15, your dad is in jail, and your mom's a crack whore welfare skank, chances are not good that you have realistic aspirations to be a neurosurgeon. It is a problem these communities will have to deal with themselves.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: P229SAS

Originally posted by: beyoku
OTOH why are African immigrants so successful? Why are they the most educationally achieved group in the US ----above all (yeah, even Asians and whites). What are the difference between Africans in America and Black Americans?

Do you have links to sources for that? I'd be interested in reading more on it.

From the Googster

*The pattern is also similar in western European countries.

 

[piasabird]

Drug laws do not devestate black families.

If you are a criminal you go to jail.

Innocent black men that dont do drugs are not the ones going to jail.

 

[Svnla]

Let see, immigrants like myself came to the US with nothing but clothes on our back and within a few years, we, most of us, are sucessful and live the American dream. I wonder why. Maybe because:

1. In HS, I studied hard, did my homeworks, worked part time to earn money to help with the bills. I walked to school and work all those years, too poor to buy even a POS vehicle.

2. After HS, I went to college with scholarship, grants, work study, part time job to get by. I drove a POS vehicle because that all I could afford. Sometimes, I drove the bus because the vehicle would not started.

3. After college, I went to work for a Fortune 500 company <applied and got it by myself..no need for affirmative action or set aside programs>, studied for my MBA at night because the employer would paid for it. After a few years, I saved enough money to buy a brand new crossover SUV with my own money.

4. After I finished my MBA, I got a good job because of my work references and my MBA <my current boss also studied for MBA while she was working full time...so she knew what kind of work ethics and dedication I capable of>. I also have a small business that I am working on in the last few years. I make good money but I save as much as I could <50% or more> plus I also invested my money wisely. I am planning to buy a brand new house within a year or two, with over 20% of down payment so I won't have to pay PMI and better rate <the $ is from my savings and business/investment>.

So what are my secrets? Easy answer = hard work, dedication, study hard, and never quit. I work for my term gain, slowly and steady and didn't want to do anything illegal for a quick buck. If I and others like myself can do it, why can't the natives?

If you have a mind and healthy body, there is no reason you can't be successful in the US if you really try your best. IIRC, Thomas Edison said something like ...Sucess is 90% sweat.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Let see, immigrants like myself came to the US with nothing but clothes on our back and within a few years, we, most of us, are sucessful and live the American dream. I wonder why. Maybe because:

1. In HS, I studied hard, did my homeworks, worked part time to earn money to help with the bills. I walked to school and work all those years, too poor to buy even a POS vehicle.

2. After HS, I went to college with scholarship, grants, work study, part time job to get by. I drove a POS vehicle because that all I could afford. Sometimes, I drove the bus because the vehicle would not started.

3. After college, I went to work for a Fortune 500 company <applied and got it by myself..no need for affirmative action or set aside programs>, studied for my MBA at night because the employer would paid for it. After a few years, I saved enough money to buy a brand new crossover SUV with my own money.

4. After I finished my MBA, I got a good job because of my work references and my MBA <my current boss also studied for MBA while she was working full time...so she knew what kind of work ethics and dedication I capable of>. I also have a small business that I am working on in the last few years. I make good money but I save as much as I could <50% or more> plus I also invested my money wisely. I am planning to buy a brand new house within a year or two, with over 20% of down payment so I won't have to pay PMI and better rate <the $ is from my savings and business/investment>.

So what are my secrets? Easy answer = hard work, dedication, study hard, and never quit. I work for my term gain, slowly and steady and didn't want to do anything illegal for a quick buck. If I and others like myself can do it, why can't the natives?

If you have a mind and healthy body, there is no reason you can't be successful in the US if you really try your best. IIRC, Thomas Edison said something like ...Sucess is 90% sweat.

Hard work is important, but it can't solve every problem. And whether or not you know it, you benefited quite a bit from things outside of your control. You got a decent job because you were able to go to college, which was possible at least in part because of scholarships. You got INTO college because your high school was decent enough to give you the opportunity to learn something. Now I'm not saying hard work doesn't play a big part, but hard work requires the opportunity for working towards a goal. If you didn't have that opportunity, I don't think you'd be sitting around lecturing everyone on how lazy they must be.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
QFT. whites do coke, blacks do crack. cokeheads get rehab, crackheads go to jail.

Largely at the insistence of the black community. You probably weren't around in the 1980s during the crack cocaine epidemic roughly from 1983 to 1990, which reached crisis levels in numerous urban centers and inner cities.

Whites didn't call for harsh crack penalties relative to other drugs. We were watching this problem unfold on TV and in the newspaper from afar. Our reaction was "Oh my, those poor people. Its terrible what is happening. I feel so bad for...HEY! MacGyver is coming on Channel 12. Who wants popcorn?"

But to the predominantly black communities being swept under a rising tide of drug-related violence, property crime, addiction, and crushing burdens on family and social services, crack cocaine became public enemy No. 1 demanding swift action and zero-tolerance.

It wasn't the desperate calls and pleas of white folks that spurred these changes, but of black mayors, community and religious leaders, legislators, police officials, public health officials, board members, trustees, victims, neighbors, coaches, parents, and educators who lived in or served these communities.

 

[KingTech]

I think the black of our age are trying to get more money and improve their living standards but they don't have equal rights and opportunities to do so.They are discriminated due to race.

 

[Slew Foot]

You cant solve the problem by tossing money at it. At heart is the fundamental ghetto culture that working is for suckers and if you dont get rich by playing basketball, selling drugs or rap albums, then you're a sell out. Lose that culture and youll see more blacks advance in society.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Hard work is important, but it can't solve every problem. And whether or not you know it, you benefited quite a bit from things outside of your control. You got a decent job because you were able to go to college, which was possible at least in part because of scholarships. You got INTO college because your high school was decent enough to give you the opportunity to learn something. Now I'm not saying hard work doesn't play a big part, but hard work requires the opportunity for working towards a goal. If you didn't have that opportunity, I don't think you'd be sitting around lecturing everyone on how lazy they must be.

What do you suggest we do to solve the problems in the inner city? Throw more money/set aside programs/affirmative actions/ect? Look at all the billions we spent since the Great Society program in the 60s up to present. What did we accomplish? LOL

So you said I am where I am because of things outside of my control? Funny, the VERY SAME OPPORTUNITIES can be have by ANYONE in the US ...IF AND ONLY IF they choose to WORK HARD and EARN it. How do you suppose a person get a merit scholarship like I did? Those just fall out of the sky?

Let me spell it out for you.... S-L-O-W-L-LY because you obviously didn't get it. I worked hard for EVERYTHING in my life. No one ever give me anythings for nothing. The scholarship was merit based, i.e. I had to bust my tail in HS to EARN it because I wasn't black and not a female so no set aside programs for me. I went to public HS and public state college. The last time I checked, those are open for anyone who are willing to work hard and earn it.

Funny, when I studied for my MBA, the very same OPPORTUNITY was avaible for ANYONE at my plant, but WHY DIDN'T they get on the boat and grap those opportunities? Oh, I forget....you have to study AFTER a long day at work, then go to the library until midnight to study and get ready to work in the morning......to EARN your degree. My bad.

You can spin anyway you want but that's THE FACT. Winners don't quit....quitters/whiners/making excuses/lazy/entitlement metality/etc. don't win.

20/20 did a nice program on Friday nite. Check it out. Funny, there were a few blacks and minorities that were very sucessfull.....because....SUPRISE!!!!....they worked hard and didn't make excuses.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3870105&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3859025&page=1

Now will you excuse me, I need to do some researches and build up my small business <I am also working FULL TIME for a Fortune 500 company>......OPPORTUNITIES are calling but...and a BIG but, you have to go out and GRAP it by the horn.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Let see, immigrants like myself came to the US with nothing but clothes on our back and within a few years, we, most of us, are sucessful and live the American dream. I wonder why. Maybe because:

1. In HS, I studied hard, did my homeworks, worked part time to earn money to help with the bills. I walked to school and work all those years, too poor to buy even a POS vehicle.

2. After HS, I went to college with scholarship, grants, work study, part time job to get by. I drove a POS vehicle because that all I could afford. Sometimes, I drove the bus because the vehicle would not started.

3. After college, I went to work for a Fortune 500 company <applied and got it by myself..no need for affirmative action or set aside programs>, studied for my MBA at night because the employer would paid for it. After a few years, I saved enough money to buy a brand new crossover SUV with my own money.

4. After I finished my MBA, I got a good job because of my work references and my MBA <my current boss also studied for MBA while she was working full time...so she knew what kind of work ethics and dedication I capable of>. I also have a small business that I am working on in the last few years. I make good money but I save as much as I could <50% or more> plus I also invested my money wisely. I am planning to buy a brand new house within a year or two, with over 20% of down payment so I won't have to pay PMI and better rate <the $ is from my savings and business/investment>.

So what are my secrets? Easy answer = hard work, dedication, study hard, and never quit. I work for my term gain, slowly and steady and didn't want to do anything illegal for a quick buck. If I and others like myself can do it, why can't the natives?

If you have a mind and healthy body, there is no reason you can't be successful in the US if you really try your best. IIRC, Thomas Edison said something like ...Sucess is 90% sweat.

:thumbsup:

That is what I'm talking about. What's interesting is the fact that Immigrants who have liteally no ties to the United States come here with nothing. But they work hard and do better then most White Americans. They save save and save money, clipping coupons and DON'T GO OVERBOARD WITH SPENDING. They take advantage of deals and use the various avenues to save money. They press the values of Education in their children's heads and show how bad your life can be without it.

African Americans on the other hand have ties here in this country. Know this country more then immigrants. Since they are US cit. they have availible all resources including social programs for low-income. But they never seem to improve themselves.

Why is this........

The first excuse I hear is slavery and the fact that they were mistreated therefore they don't have the resources. This makes no sense because first they wern't the ones enslaved and second just about every culture in this earth has been enslaved in some way shape or form. The jews for example were burned in furnaces and put in concentration camps. They do very well for themselves now.

It all amounts to values and responsability for ones problems. When one takes account for this and decides to fix the problem with themselves first. THEN.... you get results.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

It certainly doesn't help that mass immigration and the flooding of the low wage labor markets have depressed wages while increasing population density and real estate costs in addition to diluting the amount of resources available for helping the poor and lower class. Also, ladders of upward mobility have been felled by the outsourcing of middle class jobs and the use of foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1, etc.).

If minority groups were smarter, they'd band together against mass immigration and global labor arbitrage. Unfortunately, the altruist liberals have infested minority political groups.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
It certainly doesn't help that mass immigration and the flooding of the low wage labor markets have depressed wages while increasing population density and real estate costs in addition to diluting the amount of resources available for helping the poor and lower class. Also, ladders of upward mobility have been felled by the outsourcing of middle class jobs and the use of foreign work visas (H-1B, L-1, etc.).

If minority groups were smarter, they'd band together against mass immigration and global labor arbitrage. Unfortunately, the altruist liberals have infested minority political groups.

It makes me cringe whenever I hear someone saying Illegals are taking American jobs. You are talking about unskilled (no education) low level blue collar workers. If they are taking your job you need to seriously consider getting training.
The outsourcing of labor is a whole different issue.
Immigrants who come under an H-1B visa must work for their employer in order to get a green card (LPR). That usually takes a very long amount of time, upwards of 6 years or more to get a green card. Most people have compared an H-1 visa or any other visa that requires work as a form of citizenship as a form of indentured servitude. Employers commonly pay lower than normal and know they can do whatever they want to the employee because he/she must stay there to get their green card. If they leave they have a very short amount of time to find a job or they must go home. It?s not a pretty picture if you think it is.
If these types of workers are displacing Americans it?s because they keep the same job for a very long period of time. I would imagine their income to be higher though because they tend to have jobs that require very high technical or specialties.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Let see, immigrants like myself came to the US with nothing but clothes on our back and within a few years, we, most of us, are sucessful and live the American dream. I wonder why. Maybe because:

1. In HS, I studied hard, did my homeworks, worked part time to earn money to help with the bills. I walked to school and work all those years, too poor to buy even a POS vehicle.

2. After HS, I went to college with scholarship, grants, work study, part time job to get by. I drove a POS vehicle because that all I could afford. Sometimes, I drove the bus because the vehicle would not started.

3. After college, I went to work for a Fortune 500 company <applied and got it by myself..no need for affirmative action or set aside programs>, studied for my MBA at night because the employer would paid for it. After a few years, I saved enough money to buy a brand new crossover SUV with my own money.

4. After I finished my MBA, I got a good job because of my work references and my MBA <my current boss also studied for MBA while she was working full time...so she knew what kind of work ethics and dedication I capable of>. I also have a small business that I am working on in the last few years. I make good money but I save as much as I could <50% or more> plus I also invested my money wisely. I am planning to buy a brand new house within a year or two, with over 20% of down payment so I won't have to pay PMI and better rate <the $ is from my savings and business/investment>.

So what are my secrets? Easy answer = hard work, dedication, study hard, and never quit. I work for my term gain, slowly and steady and didn't want to do anything illegal for a quick buck. If I and others like myself can do it, why can't the natives?

If you have a mind and healthy body, there is no reason you can't be successful in the US if you really try your best. IIRC, Thomas Edison said something like ...Sucess is 90% sweat.

:thumbsup: from an African immigrant(I'm a US citizen already) who will become a Pharmacist in 6 months.
I did both my middle and high school here.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
It makes me cringe whenever I hear someone saying Illegals are taking American jobs. You are talking about unskilled (no education) low level blue collar workers. If they are taking your job you need to seriously consider getting training.

What if people can't afford to invest the time and money needed for "training", perhaps because their current jobs don't pay well?

Also, you're assuming that "getting education" = "job in field". I hate to break this to you guys, but if everyone went to college the result would not be that everyone would get a college-education-requiring job. Supply does not create demand. If you doubled the number of engineers produced, that doesn't mean that the number of jobs for engineers would double. Besides, we already have large oversupplies of qualified people in many fields, including fields that require advanced degrees and professional degrees.

I cringe whenever people fail to realize that the reason there are jobs "Americans won't do" is because the wages have been artificially lowered by a huge oversupply of labor. Many people who claim to support a free market economy are afraid of having real capitalism. Just how is having an almost infinite supply of labor part of having a free market? Would the free market theory stop working and collapse if we had closed borders and a finite supply of labor?

In a closed American free market, the market would determine wages. Wages would have to increase and profit margins would have to decrease until Americans were willing to work certain types of jobs. The prices for certain types of goods and services might also increase but then again, so would many Americans' incomes. However, we wouldn't be spending tax money to help poor immigrants and their families (education, health care, criminal justice costs, population explosion costs, congestion costs, environmental costs, etc.).

Perhaps the lesson of global labor arbitrage is that it may not be possible to get something for nothing, but it is possible to have a population explosion and to shift the balance of wealth from the lower classes to the upper classes.

The outsourcing of labor is a whole different issue. Immigrants who come under an H-1B visa must work for their employer in order to get a green card (LPR). That usually takes a very long amount of time, upwards of 6 years or more to get a green card. Most people have compared an H-1 visa or any other visa that requires work as a form of citizenship as a form of indentured servitude. Employers commonly pay lower than normal and know they can do whatever they want to the employee because he/she must stay there to get their green card. If they leave they have a very short amount of time to find a job or they must go home. It?s not a pretty picture if you think it is.

If these types of workers are displacing Americans it?s because they keep the same job for a very long period of time. I would imagine their income to be higher though because they tend to have jobs that require very high technical or specialties.

Of course they're replacing Americans and often college-educated Americans. The foreign work visas constitute a labor subsidy for the wealthy class. They also remove ladders of upward mobility for Americans by decreasing the number of college-education-requiring jobs and by depressing wages.