Discussion Radeon 6500XT and 6400

[GodisanAtheist]

Just getting a thread up for this. Navi 24 will ride... Q1 2022... ish.

AMD Readies Radeon RX 6500 XT and RX 6400 Graphics Cards

AMD is preparing to wrap up its Radeon RX 6000 series desktop discrete graphics card family with two new SKUs, the RX 6500 XT and the RX 6400. The two debut the company's smallest piece of silicon based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture, codenamed "Navi 24," to the desktop space. The RX 6500 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

I fugure the 6500XT lands ~5500XT territory for ~$200.

 

[Hitman928]

Depends on the kid. If the kid is like me, he would want to turn RT on. 16.3 fps is not that unplayable. I know coz I used to be happy with 15 fps as an impoverished kid whose dad was dead against gaming and wouldn't let me get a dedicated GPU. My first GPU or rather 3D accelerator, was a 3dfx Voodoo 3000 AGP that I only got coz my mom took pity on me and I kept using it even when other gamers were enjoying the spankin' new Geforce 2. A lot of the games at that time were not nice to the Voodoo, especially when you cranked the settings all the way up, which I loved to do.

I guarantee if you put a machine doing 15 fps average (which means most likely drop into single digit fps) with RT on and one doing a solid 30 with RT off, you'd have 99.99% of people choose the one with RT off. You might technically be able to play at 15 fps, but it is not going to be a pleasant experience or even visually look as nice because of all the screen tearing and jerky motion. Only people I've ever met who played like this at all were people who had no idea about PCs or PC gaming and didn't know you could have a much better time by adjusting settings. Once I showed them how to turn down settings to get at least decent fps, they were much happier with their experience. This is coming from experience in helping multiple friends/family with their machines as well as doing computer repair/support during college to help pay my way until I was able to get paid internships.

 

[DeathReborn]

Looks like the 6500XT ran out of VRAM. Not surprising results with RT on. Kind of a silly/useless comparison, TBH, as it's not like the 680M is providing any where near playable frame rates and no other APU or GPU in the 6500XT's class will do anything useful under the same conditions. I'm sure you could come up with lots of similar scenarios where the 680M outperforms the 6500XT due to lack of VRAM on the 6500XT, but in every one of those cases, the 680M will be useless as well, so who really cares? If the results are similar with RT off, that would be something to talk about. I give this tweet/chart a big, MEH.

Just a few points... How much dedicated VRAM does the 680M have? How much system memory can either access? AMD could have alleviated the 6500XT's VRAM issues by either NOT using 4GB or (to a lesser extent) a full x16 4.0 link. Both intentional cheapskate choices by AMD so no leeway given on those fronts by me, even if the test is intentionally borked, it just exposes the 6500XT weak links for effect.

 

[Hitman928]

Just a few points... How much dedicated VRAM does the 680M have? How much system memory can either access? AMD could have alleviated the 6500XT's VRAM issues by either NOT using 4GB or (to a lesser extent) a full x16 4.0 link. Both intentional cheapskate choices by AMD so no leeway given on those fronts by me, even if the test is intentionally borked, it just exposes the 6500XT weak links for effect.

The 680M doesn't have any dedicated VRAM, it all comes from system memory and how much it can reserve is adjustable. Most likely the GPU has access to at least 8 GB of RAM if needed.

The 6500XT weaknesses have been well documented. It's not about giving AMD leeway on their design choices, it's about making useless comparisons by using settings that no one would ever really use with these types of devices to beat a dead horse. If they turned RT off but showed a graph at 4K, would you find that useful? Who would buy a 6500XT to try and run anywhere near a modern AAA game at 4K? Who cares what the order of GPUs is at 4K resolution amongst GPUs that you can't use to play at 4K?

 

[Hitman928]

Two hits that the 6500 takes in this test: the ray tracing performance of Navi2 is lower than comparable 3000 series models (this is a ray tracing ON test) and the 6500 is limited to 4GB vram. I don't know if that's a mobile 3050 with 4G or a desktop 8GB, but, even the mobile 4GB version has twice the PCIe bandwidth for texture swapping.

The 3050 is the 8GB desktop model.

 

[Stuka87]

ComputerBase on Twitter: "Beaten by a way smaller iGPU. Ouch. #rx6500xt https://t.co/7wsmBFS66X" / Twitter



Wasn't expecting that

You didn't expect an entry level 4GB card to tank when raytracing was enabled?

 

[igor_kavinski]

You didn't expect an entry level 4GB card to tank when raytracing was enabled?

I didn't expect an iGPU to be better than a dGPU at raytracing.

 

[Shivansps]

Just a few points... How much dedicated VRAM does the 680M have? How much system memory can either access? AMD could have alleviated the 6500XT's VRAM issues by either NOT using 4GB or (to a lesser extent) a full x16 4.0 link. Both intentional cheapskate choices by AMD so no leeway given on those fronts by me, even if the test is intentionally borked, it just exposes the 6500XT weak links for effect.

I talked about this when the 6500XT launched, it is so crippled that at the end we may be in for another 3400G vs RX550/GT1030. Where the 3400G can greatly outperform those dgpus in in specific cases, and slightly loss in all others.

The Vega IGP can have access to up to 8GB vram

So i expect to be at least the same with RMB.

 

[Hitman928]

As a follow up, now that compterbase has released their full review, in RE:Village with RT off, the 6500XT averages 60.6 fps versus 49.5 fps for the 680M. With RT off, the 6500XT is 22% faster than the 680M on average and 25% faster in minimum fps. Across all of their tests, the 6500XT is 71% faster on average though with a faster CPU to drive it. I don't think many would swap 71% faster on average for the 6500XT to get 16.3 fps with RT on in one game.

 

[igor_kavinski]

With RT off, the 6500XT is 22% faster than the 680M on average and 25% faster in minimum fps.

It's shameful for 6500XT as a dGPU to even be compared to an iGPU. And now AMD will release the even more embarrassing 6500 soon. As Anand used to say, there is no bad product, only bad prices. 6500XT is VERY badly priced. I hope AMD kills it soon and doesn't produce more of this crap.

 

[blckgrffn]

It's shameful for 6500XT as a dGPU to even be compared to an iGPU. And now AMD will release the even more embarrassing 6500 soon. As Anand used to say, there is no bad product, only bad prices. 6500XT is VERY badly priced. I hope AMD kills it soon and doesn't produce more of this crap.

If they kill it, though, you're left with a $400 3050 as a base new GPU that is "gaming" focused.

That sucks too. :/

 

[igor_kavinski]

I meant, kill 6500XT and give gamers something actually worth $200. Nvidia is also going to be releasing the 4GB 3050. Hopefully it won't be as bad as the 6500XT.

 

[Hitman928]

It's shameful for 6500XT as a dGPU to even be compared to an iGPU.

Why?

And now AMD will release the even more embarrassing 6500 soon. As Anand used to say, there is no bad product, only bad prices. 6500XT is VERY badly priced. I hope AMD kills it soon and doesn't produce more of this crap.

I meant, kill 6500XT and give gamers something actually worth $200. Nvidia is also going to be releasing the 4GB 3050. Hopefully it won't be as bad as the 6500XT.

The 6500XT price is a symptom, not the disease. Would it make you happy if AMD priced it at $100 MSRP but the street price didn't change? Who wins in this scenario except scalpers who make even more profit from the lowered MSRP? What would be the benefit to the end customer?

 

[igor_kavinski]

People won't be stupid enough to pay $280 for a $100 card. Right now, most of them think $80 above MSRP is bearable. Their minds will give them a hard brake if the difference is $180.

 

[Hitman928]

People won't be stupid enough to pay $280 for a $100 card. Right now, most of them think $80 above MSRP is bearable. Their minds will give them a hard brake if the difference is $180.

You would like to think so, but several cards have spent months at or very near 3x of MSRP, so a $100 MSRP 6500XT selling for $280 is well within possible and maybe even probable. The $100 mark was a bit of of an exaggeration as I don't think AMD would sell it that low, even during normal times, but around $150 would have been possible but almost certainly the difference would have been absorbed as scalper profits rather than consumer savings.

GPU Availability and Pricing Update: December 2021

Our mission to track GPU pricing trends and look at the current market will continue in 2022, but for now let's see what's been happening in the...

www.techspot.com

 

[blckgrffn]

People are paying $300 now for GTX 1050 Ti cards.

Refurb 1650 DDR6 cards have been flying out OOS when listed for $300.

These should be $100 cards, at best, if we had continued without issue from late 2019.

I think @Hitman928 laid out a more robust argument, but it is what it is.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

People are paying $300 now for GTX 1050 Ti cards.

Refurb 1650 DDR6 cards have been flying out OOS when listed for $300.

These should be $100 cards, at best, if we had continued without issue from late 2019.

I think @Hitman928 laid out a more robust argument, but it is what it is.

I am at the point now where I think it is hilarious. I was reading the comments on a randomgaminginHD video about the 6500xt a couple days ago. YT comments once again prove humanity is doomed. They were exclaiming the 1050ti as faster, the 1650 too. Some were saying APUs were better. All would burn the 6500xt at the stake for turning them in to a newt.

I think this has become an example of the backfire effect. I have seen kids on Reddit buying 1650s and 1050tis for their budget builds of late. Enjoy your 3&6 year old overpriced cards. Can't buy that AMD card, everyone hates it. Never you mind it bodies both those cards. I love it though. As soon as teh market tanks and they are giving the 6500xt away because no one will buy them, I will pick one up. I have no need for one now, but for cheap enough I would have a blast messing with it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

People paying $300 for 1050/1650 are braindead. They probably play competitive games that don't really need a lot of GPU horsepower. Those are old GPUs anyway. If a current APU beats them, it makes sense. But a current APU has no right to perform close to a current dGPU, let alone beat it at something. It's absurd.

 

[igor_kavinski]

As soon as teh market tanks and they are giving the 6500xt away because no one will buy them, I will pick one up. I have no need for one now, but for cheap enough I would have a blast messing with it.

For sure, it's a must have at that price. I just won't pay $200 for it. Or $150. $100, I will think about it. Less? Sold.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

For sure, it's a must have at that price. I just won't pay $200 for it. Or $150. $100, I will think about it. Less? Sold.

Cool. But the salient point, is you and I are not the demographic for it. And the one that is, is doing a fine hurr durr when spending their limited funds. I WAS part of a small group that accepts the economics of it, and attempted to talk reason into the lynch mob. Now? I have my chair and popcorn, and I'm enjoying the show. It's like watching the pretty girl in the horror movie make terrible decisions, pass up or drop weapons, and run aimlessly until twisting an ankle or something. You know they are going to get it, they are too dumb to live. Every time I see another kid posting their parts, with one of the GTX turtle editions, I grin like the Cheshire cat.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Every time I see another kid posting their parts, with one of the GTX turtle editions, I grin like the Cheshire cat.

Man, you are hilarious! GTX Turtle Edition. LMAO!

 

[Shivansps]

As a follow up, now that compterbase has released their full review, in RE:Village with RT off, the 6500XT averages 60.6 fps versus 49.5 fps for the 680M. With RT off, the 6500XT is 22% faster than the 680M on average and 25% faster in minimum fps. Across all of their tests, the 6500XT is 71% faster on average though with a faster CPU to drive it. I don't think many would swap 71% faster on average for the 6500XT to get 16.3 fps with RT on in one game.

Thats terrible. (or very good for the IGP, depending on how you look at it) We are talking about a desktop dgpu with a 12th gen CPU vs a igpu on a notebook with a way slower cpu on a very TDP limited scenario.

You have a link?

 

[Glo.]

If AMD will bring Infinity Cache and more than 16 CUs to their iGPUs - it will immediately kill the entry level dGPU market.

P.S. 8C/16T, 16-32 MB Infinity Cache available for both CPU and iGPU and 20-24 CUs and you have an APU that can rival Consoles.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Now? I have my chair and popcorn, and I'm enjoying the show.

Mind if I plonk my chair beside yours? I'll throw in some beer.

And here I thought I got ripped off buying a 6600XT at launch MSRP. Look at how that turned out.

Every time I see another kid posting their parts, with one of the GTX turtle editions, I grin like the Cheshire cat.

Looks at cat. No, I think I'll let her do the Cheshire grin for me.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

And here I thought I got ripped off buying a 6600XT at launch MSRP.

If you listened to most of the tech tubers; you did. Now that it and the 3050 are priced so closely = crickets. Must compliment Nvidia for most of it though. Not just through back channel strong arming either. They demonstrated perfect timing on the 3050 launch. Calling the card lackluster is an understatement. But attaching a largely imaginary MSRP, and launching after the 6500xt put out most of the fires before they even got going. Reviewers gave it a much warmer reception than it deserve as a result. *golf clap*

 

[GodisanAtheist]

If AMD will bring Infinity Cache and more than 16 CUs to their iGPUs - it will immediately kill the entry level dGPU market.

P.S. 8C/16T, 16-32 MB Infinity Cache available for both CPU and iGPU and 20-24 CUs and you have an APU that can rival Consoles.

-Its weird cause I thought that was sort of the whole point of RDNA2... Running fast under restricted bandwidth situations.

My first thought was "this thing is going to take IGPs by storm".

Yet... No IC for IGPs with RDNA2 (wow that was a mouthful)? I understand having a tight transistor and power budget there, but letting IGP and Cores share a nice fat IC L3 pool seems like a no brainer.

Maybe the worry was the IGP would cannibalize their low end or add in card sales?