I think it's hard to compare those 2. the more natural comparison is to the 8800gts 320. Either one is a much better value than 8800gts 640 or 2900xt unless you're playing at very high res with lots of eye candy.
I think it's hard to compare those 2. the more natural comparison is to the 8800gts 320. Either one is a much better value than 8800gts 640 or 2900xt unless you're playing at very high res with lots of eye candy.Originally posted by: RussianSensation
If you don't mind overclocking, $270 HD 2900Pro on say Newegg is a better value than 8800GTS 640mb imo.
Check out this comparison for games you play or intend to play and resolution you use:
HD 2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640mb
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Have you touched the back of a graphics card lately? I challenge you to leave your finger on there for more than 5 seconds while the thing is under load. They get *hot*. Probably hot enough to cook food on. My gf was amazed to see my CPU temps approach 70C at one point and commented that she could bake cupcakes at that temperature. :light:Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Yeah but how does it affect most users aside from seeing a higher number on the 'GPU thermometer'?Originally posted by: BFG10K
How can you "hotly dispute" it? Look at any temperature reading on the web and you'll see it's far higher on the 2900.BUT - *nonsense* on your "far cooler and quieter" ... i had them both -2900xt is a bit louder under load ... the 'cooler' issue is not only hotly disputed but it is totally moot as the hot air get exhausted out of the case anyway.
My 8800 Ultra is significantly hotter and louder than my 8800 GTS and I also know from websites' heat, power and noise measurements the 2900 ranks even higher than the 8800 Ultra.
Most will notice a significant difference between the 8800 GTS and 2900 in terms of thermal characteristics.
My one concern would be needing a better PSU. That's a huge annoyance when you already need pretty much a 600w unit for an 8800GTS. 700w+ PSUs are *expensive*. You could pretty much buy a midrange CPU for less money than a good 700w PSU.
what are you talking about? *Show me the links!* i missed the "far higher" and "significant difference" you claim for thermal differences between r600 and g80. Wasn't the XT using only few dollars more electricity a YEAR? Unlike the power-hungry monster you are attempting to portray.
the HD2900xt requires a 550W PS
-750w for Xfire
again - Fact: the 2900xt card itself does NOT get blazing hot - well within thermal tolerances of its rather extreme [for stock] HS and ... my case actually runs slightly COOLER with a 2900xt in it then with a GTS OC ... but the difference was ... negligible .. and only MAYBE a degree or two hotter at the XT's exhaust under full load ,,, but i don't have an infrared sensor; at full load the 2900xt's fan is pushing maybe 2X the volume of air as the GTS' fan ... [guessing]Yeah there's that plus the fact that these cards cannot get *all* of the heat out the back of the case. The card itself gets blazing hot and radiates heat throughout the case no matter what you do to it (extreme measures aside).
25% more power/heat isn't too bad, especially considering that it only happens under load which is not all that often. I could still see the heat affecting a CPU overclock though. Say, for example, you have a CPU that is Prime stable, but your computer crashes in games because your GPU wasn't taxed during Prime
so ... what are you talking about?
really >
surely you exaggerate
As for the PSU, would you *really* use a 550w PSU on a 2900XT with a quad-core CPU? I wouldn't. My case came with a good 500w PSU and I couldn't run my 8800GTS on it with a single-core Opteron.
Like I said, most users don't overclock and don't even know what a 'GPU thermometer' is (nor do they care).
Personally I do know what that stuff is, and I do care (albeit not all that much).
Originally posted by: SickBeast
As for the PSU, would you *really* use a 550w PSU on a 2900XT with a quad-core CPU? I wouldn't. My case came with a good 500w PSU and I couldn't run my 8800GTS on it with a single-core Opteron.
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I think it's hard to compare those 2. the more natural comparison is to the 8800gts 320. Either one is a much better value than 8800gts 640 or 2900xt unless you're playing at very high res with lots of eye candy.Originally posted by: RussianSensation
If you don't mind overclocking, $270 HD 2900Pro on say Newegg is a better value than 8800GTS 640mb imo.
Check out this comparison for games you play or intend to play and resolution you use:
HD 2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640mb
Originally posted by: SickBeast
As for the PSU, would you *really* use a 550w PSU on a 2900XT with a quad-core CPU? I wouldn't. My case came with a good 500w PSU and I couldn't run my 8800GTS on it with a single-core Opteron.
Like I said, most users don't overclock and don't even know what a 'GPU thermometer' is (nor do they care).
Personally I do know what that stuff is, and I do care (albeit not all that much).
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
If you don't mind overclocking, $270 HD 2900Pro on say Newegg is a better value than 8800GTS 640mb imo.
Check out this comparison for games you play or intend to play and resolution you use:
HD 2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640mb
Originally posted by: Aznguy1872
Reading your guys post makes me worried. I just ordered the 2900 pro and I got a similar set up to what you listed. Should I upgrade my PSU or am I safe?
I posted links to that a long time ago in a thread far far away. I will re-post it this one time because I have a feeling you were away from AT for some time over the summer.Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Have you touched the back of a graphics card lately? I challenge you to leave your finger on there for more than 5 seconds while the thing is under load. They get *hot*. Probably hot enough to cook food on. My gf was amazed to see my CPU temps approach 70C at one point and commented that she could bake cupcakes at that temperature. :light:Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Yeah but how does it affect most users aside from seeing a higher number on the 'GPU thermometer'?Originally posted by: BFG10K
How can you "hotly dispute" it? Look at any temperature reading on the web and you'll see it's far higher on the 2900.BUT - *nonsense* on your "far cooler and quieter" ... i had them both -2900xt is a bit louder under load ... the 'cooler' issue is not only hotly disputed but it is totally moot as the hot air get exhausted out of the case anyway.
My 8800 Ultra is significantly hotter and louder than my 8800 GTS and I also know from websites' heat, power and noise measurements the 2900 ranks even higher than the 8800 Ultra.
Most will notice a significant difference between the 8800 GTS and 2900 in terms of thermal characteristics.
My one concern would be needing a better PSU. That's a huge annoyance when you already need pretty much a 600w unit for an 8800GTS. 700w+ PSUs are *expensive*. You could pretty much buy a midrange CPU for less money than a good 700w PSU.
what are you talking about? *Show me the links!* i missed the "far higher" and "significant difference" you claim for thermal differences between r600 and g80. Wasn't the XT using only few dollars more electricity a YEAR? Unlike the power-hungry monster you are attempting to portray.
the HD2900xt requires a 550W PS
-750w for Xfire
again - Fact: the 2900xt card itself does NOT get blazing hot - well within thermal tolerances of its rather extreme [for stock] HS and ... my case actually runs slightly COOLER with a 2900xt in it then with a GTS OC ... but the difference was ... negligible .. and only MAYBE a degree or two hotter at the XT's exhaust under full load ,,, but i don't have an infrared sensor; at full load the 2900xt's fan is pushing maybe 2X the volume of air as the GTS' fan ... [guessing]Yeah there's that plus the fact that these cards cannot get *all* of the heat out the back of the case. The card itself gets blazing hot and radiates heat throughout the case no matter what you do to it (extreme measures aside).
25% more power/heat isn't too bad, especially considering that it only happens under load which is not all that often. I could still see the heat affecting a CPU overclock though. Say, for example, you have a CPU that is Prime stable, but your computer crashes in games because your GPU wasn't taxed during Prime
so ... what are you talking about?
really >
surely you exaggerate
As for the PSU, would you *really* use a 550w PSU on a 2900XT with a quad-core CPU? I wouldn't. My case came with a good 500w PSU and I couldn't run my 8800GTS on it with a single-core Opteron.
Like I said, most users don't overclock and don't even know what a 'GPU thermometer' is (nor do they care).
Personally I do know what that stuff is, and I do care (albeit not all that much).
yes actually i DID touch my 2900xt on the other side of the PCB ... lately? - in June and it was about as hot as my 8800 GTS-OC.
--uncomfortable - not "blazing" ... and 70-80C is the max CORE temp ... that is what the HS/Fan is for - to keep the plastic from melting.
Why, yes, i *would* use a quality 550w PS and 2900xt/QC ... it is designed for that ... now if i had a *loaded* system with an extreme QC OC, then of course i'd get a better PS - if you spend that kind of money you'd be foolish not to protect your investment. That 620w Corsair that was on sale would be perfect for an OC'd OC and 2900xt. Me - i planned ahead and got an 850w OCZ for X-fire.
--Maybe your PS just wasn't all that "good" ... and i am still waiting for your links to back up your claims of "far higher" and "significant difference" that you claimed for thermal differences between r600 and g80.
You can read the rest of the conclusion yourself (although you probably already have); they mention the power consumption again (although not the heat).What a long, strange journey it has been to this point. We have a very delayed launch from AMD that features a part that consumes quite a bit of power and doesn't compete with the competition's high end offering.
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: djnsmith7
Originally posted by: apoppin
http://www.bestbuy.com/site//o...00050021&type=category
shows it to be "select" cards ... not 'all' like when i got mine ... sorry for my false alarm.
a good try at the moment seem to be finding a $250 2900pro for the 2nd GPU and OC'ing it to match the 2900xt
What's funny is I was in the midst of editing my post & got distracted, but I was actually removing the last part since I found the coupon, but you can't use the coupon for the XT.
Anyway, can you use the 2900Pro in X Fire with an XT? Will that work?
yes ... since x1950 series you can pair non-identical cards. Both cards will then run at the slowest card's speed [i think; that may be changing ] ... since i can probably OC the 2900p, i should suffer little performance penalty.
... i got your PM, thanks .. i replied
Originally posted by: BFG10K
I'd pick the 8800 GTS because of more consistent performance when AA is enabled; even after numerous driver updates there are many games where the 2900 absolutely tanks even with just 4xAA.
Also nVidia allows AA in many UT3 engine games like Bioshock and MoH Airborne while ATi doesn?t currently allow such functionality.
That and the GTS is far cooler and quieter.
Originally posted by: SickBeast
I posted links to that a long time ago in a thread far far away. I will re-post it this one time because I have a feeling you were away from AT for some time over the summer.Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Have you touched the back of a graphics card lately? I challenge you to leave your finger on there for more than 5 seconds while the thing is under load. They get *hot*. Probably hot enough to cook food on. My gf was amazed to see my CPU temps approach 70C at one point and commented that she could bake cupcakes at that temperature. :light:Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Yeah but how does it affect most users aside from seeing a higher number on the 'GPU thermometer'?Originally posted by: BFG10K
How can you "hotly dispute" it? Look at any temperature reading on the web and you'll see it's far higher on the 2900.BUT - *nonsense* on your "far cooler and quieter" ... i had them both -2900xt is a bit louder under load ... the 'cooler' issue is not only hotly disputed but it is totally moot as the hot air get exhausted out of the case anyway.
My 8800 Ultra is significantly hotter and louder than my 8800 GTS and I also know from websites' heat, power and noise measurements the 2900 ranks even higher than the 8800 Ultra.
Most will notice a significant difference between the 8800 GTS and 2900 in terms of thermal characteristics.
My one concern would be needing a better PSU. That's a huge annoyance when you already need pretty much a 600w unit for an 8800GTS. 700w+ PSUs are *expensive*. You could pretty much buy a midrange CPU for less money than a good 700w PSU.
what are you talking about? *Show me the links!* i missed the "far higher" and "significant difference" you claim for thermal differences between r600 and g80. Wasn't the XT using only few dollars more electricity a YEAR? Unlike the power-hungry monster you are attempting to portray.
the HD2900xt requires a 550W PS
-750w for Xfire
again - Fact: the 2900xt card itself does NOT get blazing hot - well within thermal tolerances of its rather extreme [for stock] HS and ... my case actually runs slightly COOLER with a 2900xt in it then with a GTS OC ... but the difference was ... negligible .. and only MAYBE a degree or two hotter at the XT's exhaust under full load ,,, but i don't have an infrared sensor; at full load the 2900xt's fan is pushing maybe 2X the volume of air as the GTS' fan ... [guessing]Yeah there's that plus the fact that these cards cannot get *all* of the heat out the back of the case. The card itself gets blazing hot and radiates heat throughout the case no matter what you do to it (extreme measures aside).
25% more power/heat isn't too bad, especially considering that it only happens under load which is not all that often. I could still see the heat affecting a CPU overclock though. Say, for example, you have a CPU that is Prime stable, but your computer crashes in games because your GPU wasn't taxed during Prime
so ... what are you talking about?
really >
surely you exaggerate
As for the PSU, would you *really* use a 550w PSU on a 2900XT with a quad-core CPU? I wouldn't. My case came with a good 500w PSU and I couldn't run my 8800GTS on it with a single-core Opteron.
Like I said, most users don't overclock and don't even know what a 'GPU thermometer' is (nor do they care).
Personally I do know what that stuff is, and I do care (albeit not all that much).
yes actually i DID touch my 2900xt on the other side of the PCB ... lately? - in June and it was about as hot as my 8800 GTS-OC.
--uncomfortable - not "blazing" ... and 70-80C is the max CORE temp ... that is what the HS/Fan is for - to keep the plastic from melting.
Why, yes, i *would* use a quality 550w PS and 2900xt/QC ... it is designed for that ... now if i had a *loaded* system with an extreme QC OC, then of course i'd get a better PS - if you spend that kind of money you'd be foolish not to protect your investment. That 620w Corsair that was on sale would be perfect for an OC'd OC and 2900xt. Me - i planned ahead and got an 850w OCZ for X-fire.
--Maybe your PS just wasn't all that "good" ... and i am still waiting for your links to back up your claims of "far higher" and "significant difference" that you claimed for thermal differences between r600 and g80.
Original AT Article, power consumption of 2900XT
You can read the rest of the conclusion yourself (although you probably already have); they mention the power consumption again (although not the heat).What a long, strange journey it has been to this point. We have a very delayed launch from AMD that features a part that consumes quite a bit of power and doesn't compete with the competition's high end offering.
You seem to have jumped on the train that most others here have been on for awhile: the 'SickBeast 2900XT power and heat train'. I do admit that my initial conclusions regarding these issues were an overreaction, but I stand firmly by my point that heat and power *do* matter. Each user has their own stance, but it's my firm belief that we are well beyond the passively cooled GPU days where heat did not matter. Today it should be one of the main concerns for consumers but it gets overlooked by most. *shrug*
Just FYI the PSU was an Antec similar to what Keys is saying worked fine for his system(s). I got BSODs everywhere and couldn't even install windoes until I got my 700w unit.
Originally posted by: kknd1967
btw, eVGA now offer FREE Quake War for purchase of 8600/8800 cards.
If you are into that game, this is almost like a $50 rebate. Plus ATI/AMD sux in opengl games anyway. When AA turned on, it is even worse.
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: kknd1967
btw, eVGA now offer FREE Quake War for purchase of 8600/8800 cards.
If you are into that game, this is almost like a $50 rebate. Plus ATI/AMD sux in opengl games anyway. When AA turned on, it is even worse.
Ohh ... Quake Wars vs. Orange Box's TF2, Portal, HL2-Ep1
--i like that ... there IS pressure on nvidia pricing
Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
BFG10K - I'm confused - I thought that in DX10 mode, UT3 games couldn't do AA, period - due to a specific type of shading being used. That's what I THOUGHT anyway. If you mean DX9 mode, then you may be right, I have no clue, but last I knew, there was no AA for Bioshock, RS: Vegas and so on. Am I wrong?
Also, the impression I got from DX10 performance is that the 8800 cards saw no real performance hit from DX10 with Bioshock, whereas the 2900 cards saw a massive perf. hit from enabling DX10 mode? Maybe that arguement holds no weight since DX10.1 will outdate the 2900/8800 cards anyway...but still worth considering IMO. I have a funny feeling that the CryEngine2 will run better on NV cards with DX10 enabled...
Ok fine. I will admit my 'wrongness' and worship your 'mod-ness', just this once. You have consistantly been one of the most objective and knowledgeable members on AT so I'll cave and stop being so stubborn.Originally posted by: apoppin
i was not at all away ... i just limited my posting for a couple of months while i played mod ... perhaps you were away just before that - when i extensively compared the 2900xt with my GTS640 OC:
In House HD2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640
[long] Post number 5 was my review comparing everything that related to gaming [as well as Vista vs. XP] with a 8800GTC OC vs. a 2900xt in my rig for a few weeks. The 2900xt won on price alone [and game bundle] for me. Heat is a non-issue. i challenge you to find a link that the 2900xt is "blazing" hot compared with a GTS-640
now lets really LOOK at your ONE link:
at *idle* [90% of the time] the 2900xt consumes 4 more watts then the GTS {non OC'd}
-under load it uses 19 watts more then the GTX
--mine is under load maybe 2-3 hours a day ... i can live with that
but it is not the "far higher" and "significant difference" you claim for thermal differences ... you were exaggerating unless you are concerned about less than a nickel a day. i drive a Sub-Compact car to OVER-compensate for my extreme gaming.
... as i said, perhaps *your* PS was not "good"
-a 520w Corsair is fine for a 2900xt in most cases
Originally posted by: kknd1967
btw, eVGA now offer FREE Quake War for purchase of 8600/8800 cards.
If you are into that game, this is almost like a $50 rebate. Plus ATI/AMD sux in opengl games anyway. When AA turned on, it is even worse.
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Ok fine. I will admit my 'wrongness' and worship your 'mod-ness', just this once. You have consistantly been one of the most objective and knowledgeable members on AT so I'll cave and stop being so stubborn.Originally posted by: apoppin
i was not at all away ... i just limited my posting for a couple of months while i played mod ... perhaps you were away just before that - when i extensively compared the 2900xt with my GTS640 OC:
In House HD2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640
[long] Post number 5 was my review comparing everything that related to gaming [as well as Vista vs. XP] with a 8800GTC OC vs. a 2900xt in my rig for a few weeks. The 2900xt won on price alone [and game bundle] for me. Heat is a non-issue. i challenge you to find a link that the 2900xt is "blazing" hot compared with a GTS-640
now lets really LOOK at your ONE link:
at *idle* [90% of the time] the 2900xt consumes 4 more watts then the GTS {non OC'd}
-under load it uses 19 watts more then the GTX
--mine is under load maybe 2-3 hours a day ... i can live with that
but it is not the "far higher" and "significant difference" you claim for thermal differences ... you were exaggerating unless you are concerned about less than a nickel a day. i drive a Sub-Compact car to OVER-compensate for my extreme gaming.
... as i said, perhaps *your* PS was not "good"
-a 520w Corsair is fine for a 2900xt in most cases
You're right. 19w is not significant and is livable.
When I said 'blazing hot', please allow me to explain. All graphics cards these days are *hot* (probably even the intel IGPs). When I said the 2900XT was 'blazing hot', it was in reference to the fact that it's a quasi-high-end card that pumps out alot of heat. There is no denying that the 2900XT is the hottest graphics card on the market (and not in the ghetto-fabulous slang way - the thing is genuinely HOT).
With all due respect and keeping in mind the nice things I said about you above, I do find that you tend to get involved in these discussions on semantics. It's not a complaint really; I'm just saying that I'm sure there are a bunch of people on here who would also describe the 2900XT's heat as 'blazing'. Do you think it's hot enough to ignite a dry blade of grass? Could that not ignite a blaze? How much heat do you need before something is blazing hot, hmm?
:beer:
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Ok fine. I will admit my 'wrongness' and worship your 'mod-ness', just this once. You have consistantly been one of the most objective and knowledgeable members on AT so I'll cave and stop being so stubborn.Originally posted by: apoppin
i was not at all away ... i just limited my posting for a couple of months while i played mod ... perhaps you were away just before that - when i extensively compared the 2900xt with my GTS640 OC:
In House HD2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640
[long] Post number 5 was my review comparing everything that related to gaming [as well as Vista vs. XP] with a 8800GTC OC vs. a 2900xt in my rig for a few weeks. The 2900xt won on price alone [and game bundle] for me. Heat is a non-issue. i challenge you to find a link that the 2900xt is "blazing" hot compared with a GTS-640
now lets really LOOK at your ONE link:
at *idle* [90% of the time] the 2900xt consumes 4 more watts then the GTS {non OC'd}
-under load it uses 19 watts more then the GTX
--mine is under load maybe 2-3 hours a day ... i can live with that
but it is not the "far higher" and "significant difference" you claim for thermal differences ... you were exaggerating unless you are concerned about less than a nickel a day. i drive a Sub-Compact car to OVER-compensate for my extreme gaming.
... as i said, perhaps *your* PS was not "good"
-a 520w Corsair is fine for a 2900xt in most cases
You're right. 19w is not significant and is livable.
When I said 'blazing hot', please allow me to explain. All graphics cards these days are *hot* (probably even the intel IGPs). When I said the 2900XT was 'blazing hot', it was in reference to the fact that it's a quasi-high-end card that pumps out alot of heat. There is no denying that the 2900XT is the hottest graphics card on the market (and not in the ghetto-fabulous slang way - the thing is genuinely HOT).
With all due respect and keeping in mind the nice things I said about you above, I do find that you tend to get involved in these discussions on semantics. It's not a complaint really; I'm just saying that I'm sure there are a bunch of people on here who would also describe the 2900XT's heat as 'blazing'. Do you think it's hot enough to ignite a dry blade of grass? Could that not ignite a blaze? How much heat do you need before something is blazing hot, hmm?
:beer:
the fact that it's a quasi-high-end card that pumps out alot of heat. There is no denying that the 2900XT is the hottest graphics card on the market (and not in the ghetto-fabulous slang way - the thing is genuinely HOT).
Originally posted by: Aznguy1872
I liked how you said "it would NOT ignite a fire." Cracks me up.