Radeon *SE* is FINALLY here!

[ukDave]

<< &quot;haha another to late to slow ATI product &quot;

That should be *too* late, *too* slow ATI product. If you're going to mock something out, don't look like a third grader who was held back two years while you do it. >>



lol!

 

[pidge]

<< I really can´t see the reason for bashing Ati. >>



I can think of a few but I can think of a few for a lot of companies.



<< they put better RAM on their card at no extra charge to improve performance. I can´t see why this is bad. The SE is certainly a good choice right now as I can assure you there IS a difference between 183/366 and 200/400. I tested this @700 and 933Mhz. >>



Alot of other ATI customers have stated in the past that they don't bother overclocking past 190MHz for the same reasons that I stated, because it doesn't make much of a difference past that 190MHz. When ATI first announced the Radeon, they were mentioning speeds of 250MHz (typical ATI overhype). Then they predicted it would be released at 200MHz. In the end, ATI cancelled alot of order for the 200MHz memory parts and decided to go with 183MHz. The graph I've shown you above explains why they made these changes at the last minute. I am not saying that the newer Radeon is a bad card. I am just stating that there is no need to upgrade to this card if you already have a Radeon because many Radeon's can hit the 190MHz mark where the card starts to run out of gas. The Radeon &quot;SE&quot; is nothing special when compared to the regular Radeon 64MB VIVO.



<< The GF3 nees to worry about R200. But of corse, by then GF3 Ultra will be at least >>



Well, consider this. The Radeon came out about 6 months after the release of the Geforce 2 GTS. And with the drivers that NVIDIA released upon the Radeon's release, it was on par or slower than a Geforce 2 GTS. Given ATI's track record of overhyping their video cards (where is the mobile Radeon I say), I am expecting a card on par with a Geforce 3. Their Max Radeon 2 might be faster but I doubt their single chip solution will beat the Geforce 3 or at least give it much competition.



<< Maybe it´s because of my trusty BX chipset, but the statement that Nvidia drivers are better then Ati´s is simply BS. >>



Hmm..I wonder why NVIDIA's cards are used in many of today's workstations and not ATI's, and also why developers use NVIDIA cards too? ATI's drivers are great for the average PC user but NVIDIA's drivers are indeed better.



<< At least 50 percent of Nvidia drivers NEED updates because they introduce new problems... >>



You must be referring to beta drivers. Beta drivers are not intended for end users you know. They are meant for testing of new features and are known to be buggy. Stick with release drivers are you won't experience much problems.

I am sorry if it seems like I am defending NVIDIA so much but it bothers me how much ATI and KyroII customers are bashing NVIDIA on some false or over exagerated claims.

 

[snow]

dfloyd,

The reason it's jerky is because you only have a 32meg card. The problem goes away for the 64meg cards.

 

[dfloyd]

Euripides;

Thats the problem. I agree who cares about 200 fps if your already getting 60. The problem is my Radeon at 1024 drops below 20s quite a bit. When I see someone coming at me with the Rocket launcher I run. Not because I dont want to fight but because the rockets really lag my system bad. My main complaint is the Voodoo III that I replaced with the Radeon NEVER EVER slowed down like that. And from the benchmarks I have seen the Geforce II Pro seems to do one hell of a nice job running UT. Much better than the Radeon.

And the Kyro II is running FSAA x2 @ 1024 x 768 by 32 and getting 30 more fps than my Radeon is without FSAA. So before you say when is enough!!! Enough is when gaming is smooth 95% of the time @ 1024x768x32. Not dropping down to 20s everytime someone fires a rocket.



Snow;

If it takes a 64mb card how come my 16mb Voodoo III ran it flawless??? And dont say its because of Glide as OpenGL and d3d on the unreal engine have really gotten tweaked lately and the Geforce II is running faster than the voodoo 5 with glide.

 

[dfloyd]

Moved Up

 

[HappyGamer2]

I had a Radeon 32mb ddr retail card it didn't do very well in UT. even comparing d3d vs d3d the voodoo5 plays faster and looks better. I have been experimenting with the high res textures lately with the V5, looks nice plays fast, but it's not totally stable and has odd slow downs once in a while. after you played the game for 1000 hours you don't need the fancy eye candy when playing on line.

dfloyd, what's your cpu speed?

 

[dfloyd]

600 Athlon
192MB Ram


It may be that but I have not seen Radeons scale very well so I do not think it is.

 

[HappyGamer2]

getting a faster cpu or overclocking the one you have now may help. UT loves cpu power

 

[pidge]

Its a known problem. UT slows down to a crawl (well, its slows down a lot) in UT with the 32MB Radeon version when there are like 5 or six characters in front of you. That is why i refuse to use an AIW Radeon even though I liked the multimedia capabilities. The 64MB version does not suffer from this slow down in performance. Quake III plays really nice with the Radeon though.

 

[bluemax]

<< Hmm..I wonder why NVIDIA's cards are used in many of today's workstations and not ATI's, and also why developers use NVIDIA cards too? ATI's drivers are great for the average PC user but NVIDIA's drivers are indeed better. >>


Which is why Dell sells both ATI *and* nVidia solutions, right?

 

[pidge]

<< Which is why Dell sells both ATI *and* nVidia solutions, right? >>



I don't get your point ?

Dell may make ATI available as options but which one is configured with the Dell systems as standard? Which one is the first one to pop up when one is choosing a display card? NVIDIA...that's who.

And tell me of one company that is using an ATI video card for their workstations. I will then laugh at that company.

 

[richleader]

&quot;NVIDIA...that's who.&quot;

Well, the TNT2 M64 isn't exactly Nvidia's brightest moment

 

[Toro 45]

Euripides,I think you'll be very pleased with the Vivo especially if it's the SE.I replaced my Radeon LE with a Geforce2 GTS Pro &amp; while the Pro is faster the LE has sharper 3D &amp; better color.

I'm actually considering dumping the Pro if I can get a SE 64mb for a good price.As far as the Radeon running out of gas around 183mhz I'd have to disagree mine showed noticble increases all the way up to 200mhz(have'nt tried higher)

P3 933@1010
LE@166 /3Dmark 2001 -2938 /Quake3 default 800x600 85fps/(1024)61/(1600)30
LE@190 /3Dmark 2001 -3238 /Quake3 default 800x600 93fps/(1024)68/(1600)33
LE@200 /3Dmark 2001 -3326 /Quake3 default 800x600 98fps/(did'nt test)

My score with the Pro @default clock speed was 3349

Notice LE /3326 &amp; Pro 3349 of course the Pro clocks higher &amp; does 3598 so far, but something tellls me the SE OC to about 225-235mhz may come real close to the 3598 of my Pro.

As far as drivers &amp; compatiblity the Pro gave me more trouble than my Radeon but you know what really irks me. HER LIPS


Tribes2 on the Warrior page the female her lips are blurry, kinda hair lip like with the Geforce Pro.

On the Radeon her face is perfectly detailed &amp; her lips are smooth.Thats what really started me comparing the pictue quality between the two.

Don't get me wrong it's not that noticble but my sons comp is right next to mine &amp; that when I noticed it.Not ready to give up on the Pro yet but the SE is mighty tempting.
Toro

 

[SpeedTrap]

<<

<< ATI will be teh next 3DFX, cause they cant give the drivers and just use old drivers and build on them. theve lost the race, and the radeon 2 aint gonna be worth anything >>


Fantastic diction skills! I presume spelling isn't required as a state trooper? No forms to fill out?

For pity's sake you/we have no idea what the Radeon2 is going to be like so just put a lid on it. We DO know it'll be fully DX8 compliant and much faster than the current Radeon which gives the GTS a run for its money.

I have every reason to expect the Radeon2 to perform much the same as a GF3.

And just because YOU couldn't get a Radeon to work properly doesn't mean everyone else can't either. :| >>



i gave em 4 months and they couldnt do squat, the drivers that came with the card where better. they have yet to release non beta drivers for a card thats been out for almost a year thats just pitifull.

and i cant spell cause i type to fast. paperworks by hand not computers.

 

[bluemax]

Typing too fast is NO excuse for poor grammar and typos everywhere. My wife, for example, is a paralegal. Typos only reflect on you.

Now, as to the driver support which has only IMPROVED steadily since the card came out (just ask anybody on here who uses one) as often or more often than Detonator drivers...

The card has NOT been out for a year, nor are the drivers as bad as you say they are.

I'd guess your father is the state trooper and you're thinking of joining in about 5 more years. Just quit being so antagonistic, especially when you're WRONG about all the anti-ATI statements you're making. Do we need to give you hard evidence in addition to all the testimonials given?

 

[bluemax]

DELL

There's a system for you. Rage128 as choice #1, M64 as #2.
No alterations. One example only. I could find hundreds more ATI as #1 choice systems for you.
There's nothing wrong with them. We know you love nVidia. Gully for you.
ATI is a good choice too y'know. Sometimes better. All depends on the job.

 

[snow]

Well, the UT engine is designed around a 3dfx card so that's why it runs well.

As to the speed issue, UT not only loves CPU power but a wicked FSB. My PIII 550/852 (155 FSB if I remember correctly) and SE give me a VERY nice UT experience.

 

[pidge]

<< There's a system for you. Rage128 as choice #1, M64 as #2.
No alterations. One example only. I could find hundreds more ATI as #1 choice systems for you. >>



I doubt you could really find hundreds more. I bet more #1 cards are NVIDIA than ATI in OEM systems.



<< There's nothing wrong with them. >>



There are lots of things wrong with them but there are lots of wrong things with every video card.



<< We know you love nVidia. Gully for you. >>



I love NVIDIA. ATI is a good card but ATI does a few things to fool the consumer and overhype their cards. NVIDIA just does some moves that make business sense if you want to compete in this highly competitive market. Things that ATI does offend me more as a consumer since they think they can fool me with some of their statements about their products which they hardly come through with.



<< ATI is a good choice too y'know. Sometimes better. All depends on the job. >>



This I agree with

 

[Fission]

<< but in games liek tribes or tribes 2 when dropping to the desktop , it would be like freezing my system even though i can move the mouse and click on links. was toldthis was D3D lag. >>


D3D, as in Direct3D? *sigh* You have an fully capable OpenGL card, and you're playing Tribes 2 in Direct3D mode? Tribes 2 Direct3D was thrown together at the last minute to help Voodoo users. The fact that you're using Direct3D with your Radeon shows that you don't know how to use your equipment.

Furthermore, Tribes 1 does not have a Direct3D option for video. It supports Glide, and had OpenGL added after release. Oops! No D3D lag there! Learn to configure your system and maybe you'd have better luck.

 

[Taz4158]

<<

<< WSPTrooper, I am a little out of it today (barely slept). What did you mean by ?another to late to slow ATI product??

I have a Geforce2 card in my current system but wanted to try the 64meg Radeon in my new machine I am putting together tomorrow. My friend has the Radeon LE and his color and detail always looked so much better than mine. So I am giving Radeon a try until the prices drop on the Geforce3?s and keeping an eye on the upcoming Radeon2. >>



well i had a GF2 i got a Radeon , the 2d whipped its ass. but in games liek tribes or tribes 2 when dropping to the desktop , it would be like freezing my system even though i can move the mouse and click on links. was toldthis was D3D lag. but in Alice the framerates where on par withthe Ultra, but the image was crisper. I played at 1600x1200x32.

but since the GF3 came out , the radeon has fallen behind again. The GF3 it smokes it in all ways.

the other thing is there drivers. there buggier than anything and since this uses the Rage chipset, w2k Performance blows. I have yet to get the radeon to do anything in W2k, no matter how many dift mobo's , drivers or configurations, to run it. I even had to sell my dualie system cause of this. >>



More user error being blamed on ATI.

 

[Taz4158]

<<

<<

<< ATI will be teh next 3DFX, cause they cant give the drivers and just use old drivers and build on them. theve lost the race, and the radeon 2 aint gonna be worth anything >>


Fantastic diction skills! I presume spelling isn't required as a state trooper? No forms to fill out?

For pity's sake you/we have no idea what the Radeon2 is going to be like so just put a lid on it. We DO know it'll be fully DX8 compliant and much faster than the current Radeon which gives the GTS a run for its money.

I have every reason to expect the Radeon2 to perform much the same as a GF3.

And just because YOU couldn't get a Radeon to work properly doesn't mean everyone else can't either. :| >>



i gave em 4 months and they couldnt do squat, the drivers that came with the card where better. they have yet to release non beta drivers for a card thats been out for almost a year thats just pitifull.

and i cant spell cause i type to fast. paperworks by hand not computers. >>



Another shining endorsement for Hooked On Phonics. Here we can see a glowing example of the difference it's made for one young feller.

 

[SpeedTrap]

know more about computers than most of you little girle assed kids put together. I try dift cards and they all have issues. I can say what I want about ATI cause i used there cards and they really got some major driver issues.

but then again you kids cant afors to keep changing video cards, but I understand so you HAVE to make your card work or you wont have a computer to use.

but its ok. we all have choices in Life some of us just make better ones than others

 

[Taz4158]

<< know more about computers than most of you little girle assed kids put together. I try dift cards and they all have issues. I can say what I want about ATI cause i used there cards and they really got some major driver issues.

but then again you kids cant afors to keep changing video cards, but I understand so you HAVE to make your card work or you wont have a computer to use.

but its ok. we all have choices in Life some of us just make better ones than others >>


With your obvious intelligence and keen grasp of the English language I would imagine nobody would be surprised that you have a high paying job and lots of disposable income. You'd be a jewel to add to any work environment and I surmise you can pretty much write your own ticket. Would that we &quot;little girle&quot; were so fortunate to have been blessed with clearly paramount intelligence and the gift of putting words on paper that you have.

 

[bonkers325]

<< Just wanted to update the fellow Radeon lovers here with news (that I can personally confirm) that the Radeon SE has finally been released. However, ATI hasn't made this obvious. There is no way to distinguish old Radeon 64meg cards from the SEs as the box is the same. Well, you may ask then how can you tell? Well besides the faster ram and higher clockspeed, I got absolute confirmation thanks to powerstrip. The old powerstrip that I was using worked fine with the old Radeon I was using but with the new card it freaked out. Went to the entech page and low and behold, Radeon SE support in the new beta powerstrip. Installed them and everything checks out.

The Radeon SE comes clocked at 198/198 at default with 64megs of 5ns memory. It can overclock well into the 230s. Gotta love it. Kudos ATI. >>



hooray

 

[PeAK]

As you can tell from the number of posts, fame garnered from
word of mouth can be a two edge sword. The arguments put forth here
basically state that anything slower than a GF3 (or is that GF2) is not a viable gaming platform (i.e. Voodoo3, Voodoo 4, MX, MX200, MX400). If the game developers
exploited the Radeon hardware like the ID boys did with Quake3...we would not be complaining about UT.