Radeon *SE* is FINALLY here!

[Eug]

<< I am sorry but I don't trust your benchmarks. In your scores, you show the Radeon in the first 20MHz gaining about a 2FPS improvement while in the next 20MHz higher, it gains 6FPS? That does not coincide with what others reported and from my own results. >>

pidge, Sorry, It was a typo I typed a &quot;5&quot; instead of an &quot;8&quot;. It was correct in the graph though.


<< I am sorry Eug but I cannot recognize your reponse due to the fact that I reviewed your system specs and you are a ATI user on both ends(laptop &amp; desktop). Is LE really better then VE? I must hear from an unbiased graphics card user!! >>

As others have posted, the VE is simply not the card to get if you want speed. I do use ATI in my desktop and laptop. For my laptop, at the time it was the fastest card in existence. (Geforce2 Go didn't exist yet.) For the desktop it was the best bang for the buck, although I was considering a Kyro II. It replaced a Voodoo 3 that died. I didn't consider nVidia because the Geforce3 costs too much and the Geforce2 is plagued by 2D issues.

Here is one review of the VE. You can do a search to find others.

My recommendations:

Budget: Radeon LE
Lower Mid: Kyro II - creeps into the upper mid as well.
Upper Mid: Geforce2 Pro (although make sure you get one with good 2D). Otherwise maybe Radeon VIVO.
$$$$: Geforce3
Dual head: Matrox G450

These are just rough estimates. Different cards have different plusses and minuses.


<< My replies only come from my views of 3dmark2001 graphics cards test program(please tell me of another I should play). But I do not know of any other respectable tests that I could compare performance otherwise. Please post a link for a new test. >>

Most of us use the games we play or the games we plan to play as the tests. For instance, I like Quake III and UT. The Radeon LE does very well with Quake III, but not as well with UT at 1024x768x32. However, I'm told the VIVO (with 64 MB) does significantly better with UT than the LE and also the AIW Radeon, the latter two of which only have 32 MB.

 

[powervr2]

radeon LE is cool and I think it's 128 bit...(anandtech review I think)
kyro 2 have 2 pipelines and also 128 bit bus

 

[bluemax]

For jkellynewyork:

Radeon LE/DDR = 2 pipelines * 3 texture units + T&amp;L engine + HyperZ (hidden surface removal)

Radeon VE = 1 pipeline * 3 texture units. No T&amp;L or HyperZ. Dual monitor.


It stands to reason, that the VE will be approximately half the speed of the less expensive LE or retail DDR card. I'd be perfectly happy with a VE, as it is close to a Geforce2 MX in many benchmarks, dual monitor support, and awesome DVD playback.

If you ever wanna' sell that VE cheap, you just give me a call.

 

[Taz4158]

My Visiontek 2D is very very good. Almost the measure of my Radeon.

 

[Angus]

so how good is the radeon se?
from 183mhz to 198mhz, there's only 15mhz different
even it uses 5ns memory, there won't be a big performance different, cause the limit is still on the chip itself not the memory.

 

[Angus]

so how good is the radeon se?
from 183mhz to 198mhz, there's only 15mhz different
even it uses 5ns memory, there won't be a big performance different, cause the limit is on the chip itself not the memory.

 

[bluemax]

Well, if you're paying for a 64MB OEM (at 166mhz) and getting an SE at 193MHz for the same price, I don't see a problem.

 

[Eug]

<< even it uses 5ns memory, there won't be a big performance different, cause the limit is on the chip itself not the memory >>

Hmmm.... Not sure actually what the limit of the chip is. I agree in that I suspect that while at stock the SE is 15 MHz faster, in overclocking it won't get that much higher because of the GPU limitation.

However, at the moment I have no way of testing that hypothesis. I have the supposedly inferior LE core, but the GPU still seems to run OK at 200 MHz. At 205 MHz the card starts getting artifacts and at 209 I get lots of artifacts and it crashes every time. However, the artifacts suggest to me that in fact it's the memory and not the GPU that is the main limitation. I wonder if a hand picked SE GPU might actually be able to make use of the overclockability of the 5 ns DDR RAM on the SE.

That said, if I had to pay more than $15 more for the card, I probably wouldn't bother.

 

[TunaBoo]

<<

<< I stand by TAZ1458, This WSPTrooper guy is a little out there!!!!!!! >>



you made me this way >>



Go eat some doughnuts you Dunkin-Doughnuts munchin' pig.

 

[Euripides]

Okay, so after all that.

The Radeon 64DDR I got from Newegg is the 5ns if anyone is interested in ordering one.

 

[snow]

Good to hear. Enjoy.

And...
settle down kids.

 

[bluemax]

There's always gotta' be one flamer on any said board. Since Hardware seems to have calmed down, WSPtrooper took his place for the ***CONFIRMED*** facts.

 

[Taz4158]

<< There's always gotta' be one flamer on any said board. Since Hardware seems to have calmed down, WSPtrooper took his place for the ***CONFIRMED*** facts. >>


Deja vu.

 

[Swanny]

<< << I stand by TAZ1458, This WSPTrooper guy is a little out there!!!!!!! >> >>


Me too. I feel sorry for my friends in Washington.



<< you made me this way >>


Hmmmm..... Getting a little paranoid, are we? There are times when you should just give up your argument because you know you've lost

 

[Swanny]

snow: I don't see and Radeon 64Meg VIVO card offered in your link. I only saw a retail Radeon 64meg DDR. Could you provide a more specific link to the product instead of just the storefront?

 

[snow]

Radeon SE but I also here the Radeon 64MB retail cards at newegg.com are SEs also so you might want to compare the prices there and at invado.com

 

[T2T III]

<< Uh, I don't trust a guy who uses such words as &quot;blows monkey goats&quot; in sentences and portrays himself as a state trooper from Washington State. Something ain't right here, folks >>


I'd bet WSPTrooper is a cop-wanna-be. There's quite a market for purchasers of used Caprice police cars with the chrome spotlight on the driver's door.

I thought most police agencies now require degrees.

If that dufus (WSPTrooper) talks in court like he types / writes in this forum, then the judge will laugh the case out of the court room.

 

[jkings]

Anyone have Benchmarks for the &quot;SE&quot;? How about 3Dmark 2000 scores?

JK

 

[Teasy]

<<<Geforce 2 sucks at a lot of unreal engine games too. They look like crap in 16 bit, so you're forced to use 32 bit color, which makes FSAA impossible. Undying, Deus Ex, Rune, etc, same problem. I'm sure performance is a little bit better than the radeon, but it's the engine that's handicapping both. Not that I want to hear some Kryotroll's take on that. >>>

Kyro II is great at UT engine games. It can run them fast with FSAA and it doesn't even need 32bit because of internal true colour. Is that what you didn't want to hear? If you think there are so many &quot;Kytrols&quot; out there, which BTW isn't a very well thought out insult as Kytrol doesn't sound anything like Kyro, then why do you have to provoke them with your childish insults?

 

[Swanny]

snow: I looked on newegg's site, and the only Radeon 64Meg retail is clocked at 183/183. Are these the ones people are ordering but getting SEs?

 

[snow]

I assume those are them. However, I ordered from invado.com and only heard second hand about newegg from a couple of people Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[SpideyCU]

Yeah, NewEgg's funny that way; you get lucky a lot. The T-bird I got from them was an AXIA, but more to the point, quite a few people who ordered an MSI GF2Pro from 'em (listed as 5.5ns memory) got 5ns chips. So, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case for the Radeon card too.

 

[jkings]

Did anyone else order from NewEgg and get the SE?

 

[Martijnos]

^^ wanna known too. Is this Radeon SE as fast as my MSI pro 64mb?

 

[Swanny]

<< I am sorry Eug but I cannot recognize your reponse due to the fact that I reviewed your system specs and you are a ATI user on both ends(laptop &amp; desktop). Is LE really better then VE? I must hear from an unbiased graphics card user!! >>



The LE is much faster than the VE. When properly tweaked (which doesn't take much) it performs just like a Radeon DDR 32Mb.