Radeon Vega Architecture Preview Thread

[zinfamous]

Any guesses as to a probable length for these cards?

I'm pretty sure at this point that I'm going to be putting together a Zen + Vega box together before the year is over, and I'm looking to go SFF for the first time. It seems that some of the newer SFF case designs now allow for those full-size cards, but in many situations you make various airflow and cooling compromises. ...and is it still true that a blower design is preferred for such cramped cases?

Yeah, it's better to pick a case once you know your working dimensions, but I'm also going to slowly and patiently purchase parts over time, trying to take advantage of potential deals.

My #1 case right now is probably this, Fractal Design Define Nano S. I think I've ruled out the box designs, like from Corsair and FD, for reasons, and then I saw this case at Microcenter over the weekend (Egg doesn't seem to sell it, and this Amazon price is about $20 cheaper, including free shipping, compared to the MC price this week). One review that I read about this mentioned that there could be issues with space between the GPU fan surface, depending on the size of PSU and how you mount it, but I'm just going to assume that won't bother me.

Anyone have any recommendations for or against SFF for potential large, high-end cards and expected power draws to match? ...I'm further assuming that ~450W should be enough to power a 6C/12t Zen + Vega (10?) box, and might actually be the optimum setup to stay above 50% load? I'm also planning to install a 256 or 500gb NVME drive (my first), and I'm not sure about typical power draw for these things, though I hear they can run really hot...

 

[bshole]

s

Any guesses as to a probable length for these cards?

I'm pretty sure at this point that I'm going to be putting together a Zen + Vega box together before the year is over, and I'm looking to go SFF for the first time. It seems that some of the newer SFF case designs now allow for those full-size cards, but in many situations you make various airflow and cooling compromises. ...and is it still true that a blower design is preferred for such cramped cases?

Yeah, it's better to pick a case once you know your working dimensions, but I'm also going to slowly and patiently purchase parts over time, trying to take advantage of potential deals.

My #1 case right now is probably this, Fractal Design Define Nano S. I think I've ruled out the box designs, like from Corsair and FD, for reasons, and then I saw this case at Microcenter over the weekend (Egg doesn't seem to sell it, and this Amazon price is about $20 cheaper, including free shipping, compared to the MC price this week). One review that I read about this mentioned that there could be issues with space between the GPU fan surface, depending on the size of PSU and how you mount it, but I'm just going to assume that won't bother me.

Anyone have any recommendations for or against SFF for potential large, high-end cards and expected power draws to match? ...I'm further assuming that ~450W should be enough to power a 6C/12t Zen + Vega (10?) box, and might actually be the optimum setup to stay above 50% load? I'm also planning to install a 256 or 500gb NVME drive (my first), and I'm not sure about typical power draw for these things, though I hear they can run really hot...

My last build has a Fractal Define R4. Very very quiet. I have a supercharged setup (for 2013) and it is virtually silent. I have no need to upgrade. Everything is still wicked fast and it still handles my gaming needs flawlessly.

 

[zinfamous]

s

My last build has a Fractal Define R4. Very very quiet. I have a supercharged setup (for 2013) and it is virtually silent. I have no need to upgrade. Everything is still wicked fast and it still handles my gaming needs flawlessly.

The R4 is a mid-tower case, right? I was considering that one, too, because I keep going back and forth between comfortable and "new," ...but I've re-convinced myself that I truly want a small box.

 

[tential]

Any guesses as to a probable length for these cards?

I'm pretty sure at this point that I'm going to be putting together a Zen + Vega box together before the year is over, and I'm looking to go SFF for the first time. It seems that some of the newer SFF case designs now allow for those full-size cards, but in many situations you make various airflow and cooling compromises. ...and is it still true that a blower design is preferred for such cramped cases?

Yeah, it's better to pick a case once you know your working dimensions, but I'm also going to slowly and patiently purchase parts over time, trying to take advantage of potential deals.

My #1 case right now is probably this, Fractal Design Define Nano S. I think I've ruled out the box designs, like from Corsair and FD, for reasons, and then I saw this case at Microcenter over the weekend (Egg doesn't seem to sell it, and this Amazon price is about $20 cheaper, including free shipping, compared to the MC price this week). One review that I read about this mentioned that there could be issues with space between the GPU fan surface, depending on the size of PSU and how you mount it, but I'm just going to assume that won't bother me.

Anyone have any recommendations for or against SFF for potential large, high-end cards and expected power draws to match? ...I'm further assuming that ~450W should be enough to power a 6C/12t Zen + Vega (10?) box, and might actually be the optimum setup to stay above 50% load? I'm also planning to install a 256 or 500gb NVME drive (my first), and I'm not sure about typical power draw for these things, though I hear they can run really hot...

PCB is about as long as Fury X right?
So it'll be a shorter card. AIBs will do what they do from there.

I'm all about the SFF range now. I'd suggest looking at the Lava build where he put a R9 290x lightning in an SFF case. As long as you actually get a decent SFF case, you'll fit most cards.
I like the Nano S, but I think it depends on what you need. I'm waiting for the card to come out. Then I'll buy a case.
I really don't think AMD will abandon the Fury X cooler design, so if it stays, then that will also be something I want my case to be able to easily accommodate.

There is LITTLE REASON TO GET THE R4.
I own one. I recommended tons of people to get one. I've since changed my tune. What can you do with all that space? My whole box is empty.....It was only useful when it doubled as a storage server, and your gaming PC isn't a storage server(I say this as I eagerly await Zen to turn my Storage server into a gaming/storage server..... lol.....).

A decent smaller build makes more sense. If AMD continues with the Fury X cooler design, even more so since you can easily exhaust all heat out the case.

 

[Bacon1]

Any guesses as to a probable length for these cards?

The physical PCB will probably be similar to Fury / Nano but who knows if we'll have any Nano styled cooler options since they seemed to bomb since it's so niche.

 

[imported_jjj]

With Zen's turbo and likely Vega's boost, cooling would matter so if you build SFF ,maybe factor that in.

 

[.vodka]

Any guesses as to a probable length for these cards?

Vega uses HBM2. 80% of the GPU is around here:

The rest is connectivity and VRM/power circuits. I can definitely see a Vega card with a similar PCB to the Nano/FuryX:

BTW, Vega as a whole is smaller than Fiji (package size, interposer size, GPU die size, and two HBM2 stacks vs 4 HBM1 stacks). An even shorter PCB could be possible.


If there's a Nano version of Vega with a small heatsink + fan, you'd be fine. Aircooled versions like Fury non X are going to be long because of the heatsink, an AIO cooled card like the Fury X could or could not be a problem for your case.

 

[Dave2150]

Vega uses HBM2. 80% of the GPU is around here:



The rest is connectivity and VRM/power circuits/QUOTE]



Display outputs would be kinda handy on a GPU these days

 

[railven]

Interesting point of view from Adore.

Catching up on all the latest info, really does seem like AMD is putting huge focus on HPC versus consumer graphics. Interesting to see how it goes forward. AMD is better off catering to huge pockets. Consumer side has relegated AMD to being bang-for-buck bargain brand for years. Vega might hit during my refresh cycle. Want to see how it stacks up to whatever is on the market at that point.

 

[Bacon1]

https://youtu.be/I-wFVIlMY_0

 

[swilli89]

https://youtu.be/I-wFVIlMY_0

Great find!

 

[Glo.]

8 Shader Engines, each with 8 NCUs will take more space than 4 Shader Engines. Thats why Vega 10, with 64 CUs is not direct port from 28 nm Fiji, and the die is proportionally bigger compared to what Fiji would look like on 14 nm process.

 

[EXCellR8]

stripped down my full tower build in prep for AM4, but I mounted an oversize radiator inside and I'm gonna need shorter cards. Right now, the 290X just barely squeezes in with only 5mm or so of extra clearance. I forget the length of the reference model.

 

[Piroko]

Any guesses as to a probable length for these cards? My #1 case right now is probably this, Fractal Design Define Nano S.

Just to give a point of perspective, the Define Nano S is actually rather spacious and can house even monsters like the Radeon R9 295x2 length wise.

...and is it still true that a blower design is preferred for such cramped cases?

You'll find lots of different opinions on that topic. I would say open air with two 140mm low speed front fans pushing air into the case will probably be superior in noise and temperatures. The Nano S is a rather well ventilated case. Water cooling the GPU (by far largest heat source) beats both though.

...I'm further assuming that ~450W should be enough to power a 6C/12t Zen + Vega (10?) box, and might actually be the optimum setup to stay above 50% load?

Just buy a high quality PSU in the range of 450 to 650W imho, they'll have roughly the same efficiency. The larger ones tend to be overbuilt on their heat sinks thus their fan will more likely stay off at idle. It's a bit easier to route cables with shorter PSUs imo.

I'm also planning to install a 256 or 500gb NVME drive (my first), and I'm not sure about typical power draw for these things, though I hear they can run really hot...

"Hot" as in if they don't get at least some air flow then they will overheat and throttle during constant load. They're somewhere in the range of 5 to 7 Watts during load and <1 Watt at idle. There are models with heat spreaders out there, those do fine regardless of air flow.

 

[jackstar7]

https://youtu.be/I-wFVIlMY_0

"
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW - AMD’s Scott Wasson Details Vega’s Architecture

RedGamingTech"

For those not wanting to click a blind link.

 

[tential]

Why is this youtube link being posted in so many threads with no comments about it? What is the highlight of the video? Anything?
Have those posting it even watched it?

What new information is in this youtube video that hasn't been talked about in previous videos/presentations?

 

[Bacon1]

Why is this youtube link being posted in so many threads with no comments about it?

So many? I posted in the two different Vega architecture / rumor threads because it applies to both threads and they are in two different forums.

What is the highlight of the video?

Its a 47 minute interview. Go watch it or don't but why threadcrap?

 

[tential]

Just to give a point of perspective, the Define Nano S is actually rather spacious and can house even monsters like the Radeon R9 295x2 length wise.

You'll find lots of different opinions on that topic. I would say open air with two 140mm low speed front fans pushing air into the case will probably be superior in noise and temperatures. The Nano S is a rather well ventilated case. Water cooling the GPU (by far largest heat source) beats both though.

Just buy a high quality PSU in the range of 450 to 650W imho, they'll have roughly the same efficiency. The larger ones tend to be overbuilt on their heat sinks thus their fan will more likely stay off at idle. It's a bit easier to route cables with shorter PSUs imo.

"Hot" as in if they don't get at least some air flow then they will overheat and throttle during constant load. They're somewhere in the range of 5 to 7 Watts during load and <1 Watt at idle. There are models with heat spreaders out there, those do fine regardless of air flow.

I think for the most part it's pretty easy to build in an SFF right? Just get one of the SSDs that use the PCIE M2 slot, a quality PSU just like you said, and really there is an SFF case for almost any use case and GPUs that work in them. I was scared before, but if you can fit the power hungry R9 290x lightning edition into an SFF case like lavaheadache did.
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/290x-lightning-as-an-htpc-card.2414541/

I'm not going to waste time worrying about getting a Vega GPU to work in an HTPC. There are a lot better things we can talk about regarding Vega. I think there is enough evidence of insane SFF setups working very well for us to stop using crazy SFF worries, and instead get to thinking about if anything AMD has revealed about the architecture will yield significant improvements over Polaris. Like performance relevant ones.

Actually. Size too I guess? I really hope they didn't abandon the nano form factor.

 

[zinfamous]

Just to give a point of perspective, the Define Nano S is actually rather spacious and can house even monsters like the Radeon R9 295x2 length wise.

You'll find lots of different opinions on that topic. I would say open air with two 140mm low speed front fans pushing air into the case will probably be superior in noise and temperatures. The Nano S is a rather well ventilated case. Water cooling the GPU (by far largest heat source) beats both though.

Just buy a high quality PSU in the range of 450 to 650W imho, they'll have roughly the same efficiency. The larger ones tend to be overbuilt on their heat sinks thus their fan will more likely stay off at idle. It's a bit easier to route cables with shorter PSUs imo.

"Hot" as in if they don't get at least some air flow then they will overheat and throttle during constant load. They're somewhere in the range of 5 to 7 Watts during load and <1 Watt at idle. There are models with heat spreaders out there, those do fine regardless of air flow.

awesome, thanks a lot, man. this is all pretty much in line with what I was thinking. I couldn't get a good idea of size looking at Newegg/Amazon, but poking around at Microcenter, I learned that those box designs were a bit smaller and more cramped than I imagined, while the Nano S, which I didn't know existed, was surprisingly "open" when I pulled off the side.

 

[ElFenix]

C'mon guys, I keep having to move posts out of here due to nvidia references. It shouldn't be that difficult to keep them out of your posts.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[SpaceBeer]

One thing came to my mind
http://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2017/01/AMD-VEGA-10-specifications-1000x546.jpg

If Vega for HPC has 64 CUs, and 12 TFlops compute power, it means its (boost) clock is around 1450 MHz. And we know previous HPC cards had 100-150 MHz lower clock compared to gaming GPUs. Which should mean that gaming Vega will have (boost) clock at 1500-1600 MHz?

On the other side, as discussed before, in ~530mm^2 chip, made in 14nm, you should be able to fit at least 80 CUs. I mean, P10 is 232mm^2 and has 36 CUs. As someone mentioned, it might be due to NCU changes. But 72 CUs chip (2xP10) should be within 400mm^2, probably less. This die is just too large in my opinion. When we compare Hawaii -> Fiji, increase in CUs is similar to increase in number of transistors and die. I suppose Fiji is more complicated due to HBM controller. And even die shrink of Fiji shouldn't be larger than 400mm^2.

Yes, Vega will have 8 shader engines while Fiji has 4, but again, 2xP10 (2x4 SEs) plus additional stuff (improvements) minus things you won't double (eg. Media blocks...) and 8 CUs, and it should still be at 450mm^2 ?

Also Tahiti -> Tonga, they have put 700 million transistors more in just a little bit larger chip (7mm^2). So does this changes really require ~30% more space? Or is there Vega with more than 64 CUs?

At this moment their design choice is to make chips with lot of slow(er) cores. Are they taking the new way now and plan to make GPUs with smaller amount of faster cores?

 

[Head1985]

Vega 10 is bellow 500mm2 Raja said that.
And vega have alot things that dont be used in games and take alot of space:
Primitive shaders,HBCC,INT8 compute and maybe fast fp64.
Also some things that will be used in games:
New rasterizer, New L2 cache for rops and load balance.

So i think vega will be still 4x shader engine and 4096/256/64 config just like fiji.

 

[Piroko]

I think for the most part it's pretty easy to build in an SFF right? Just get one of the SSDs that use the PCIE M2 slot, a quality PSU just like you said, and really there is an SFF case for almost any use case and GPUs that work in them.

There are some stupid SFF cases out there that are a pain in the butt where you have to take build order into account and squeeze cables through small channels but the Nano S certainly isn't one of them. That case can even take a full custom loop and be sort-of easy to work in as well, especially with short cards like the Fury Nano where you don't even have to look out for clearance. Here's a rather crazy build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keYLcq6VlFI

Actually. Size too I guess? I really hope they didn't abandon the nano form factor.

I do as well, I like shorter cards. edit: The Fury Nano is just ridiculous:

awesome, thanks a lot, man. this is all pretty much in line with what I was thinking. I couldn't get a good idea of size looking at Newegg/Amazon, but poking around at Microcenter, I learned that those box designs were a bit smaller and more cramped than I imagined, while the Nano S, which I didn't know existed, was surprisingly "open" when I pulled off the side.

Well seems like the blower card can be the more quiet card in such a build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiDZNT7mxLQ Though as he mentioned there's a lot he could have done to tweak air flow which he didn't test. Also, this would probably be much less of an issue with a card like the Sapphire Fury or a slimmer card in general.

 

[zinfamous]

dang that, looks nice. Tiny case suddenly has such empty space....almost makes you want to fill it with something.

I assumed that Vega would be small, but since I've never actually held one of those Fury Nanos, I guess I never could appreciate how small they were. As for cost, though...eh, I probably won't like it

I went ahead and picked up the Define Nano S case off Amazon, as it dropped another 5 bucks to $54.99, shipped two days. If it keeps dropping over the next week, I might get some more refunds.

 

[tential]

dang that, looks nice. Tiny case suddenly has such empty space....almost makes you want to fill it with something.

I assumed that Vega would be small, but since I've never actually held one of those Fury Nanos, I guess I never could appreciate how small they were. As for cost, though...eh, I probably won't like it

I went ahead and picked up the Define Nano S case off Amazon, as it dropped another 5 bucks to $54.99, shipped two days. If it keeps dropping over the next week, I might get some more refunds.

My r4 case is completely empty. Just makes no sense to me I almost feel a more compact case for me should give better cooling and that the big case needs more fan power for great air flow.