Radeon X1950XTX vs 8800GTS

[Dave Richardson]

I had just about decided to put one of these on a new PC I am building "Sapphire ATI RADEON X1950 XTX " when I noticed that an 880GTS was of a roughly similar price, give or take 10-15%. Depending on models examined.

I'm not prepared to pay for an 8800GTX just now.

I will probaby stick with the Radeon.

But I am a bit tempted - any thoughts anyone.

Thanks.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Best Review Online

The 8800GTS either ties with the X1950XTX...or scores some significant wins. (I just did a quick run-down and the X1950XTX only has a decent advantage in Splinter Cell Chaos Theory)

Also, at this state, the 8800 drivers seem to be in a little mess. There is another thread here click about the new drivers and some of the issues people are facing. I just mention this as a bit of warning. Some games have major issues (Splinter Cell Double Agent has some significant issues). Knowing nVidia, they will definitely be fixed given due time.

The 8800GTS is powerful, forward-looking and you won't feel you bought something obsolete an year or two down the line. And yeah, Vista drivers aren't available yet, if that matters. But I'm pretty sure they will be in time for the January 30th Vista launch.

I strongly recommend the 8800GTS even though there are a few early-adopter kinks.

 

[LordGestle]

I'm more of a Radeon fan myself but for this upgrade I went with the GTS for a similar deal. Both being the same price the nod goes to the GTS. However I think if the X1950XT was 320$ I may have went with the Radeon.
It would be hard to justify not getting a DX10 part at the same price at this point.

 

[Dave Richardson]

Thanks people,

ATI's marketing of cards seems to be a mess at present. The more I looked at ATI cards today the more confused I became. Choose any combination of "X", "XT" "XTX" "PRO" "1900" "1950" "TURBO" "Heatpipe" and "Silent" and you probably have a current ATI based video product.

I'm still not totally sure which is the current fastest/coolest/quietest product/cost effective product.

At least if I go the 8800GTS route my head will stop spining!

 

[Cooler]

If you want a top end ATI card you might want till end of january for R600.

 

[BenchZowner]

You can easily overclock the GTS, and reach near/same 8800GTX performance.
Even when taking the performances out of the scope, I'd still go for the 8800GTS, due to...SM4/DX10.

As for the Radeons, the fastest ATi card atm is the Radeon X1950XTX

 

[BFG10K]

The 8800 GST is definitely the better card but keep in mind that there are lot of driver issues on it currently.

 

[hardwareking]

the GTS is a better deal.It either ties or outperforms the x1950 xtx.And it has DX 10 support.
And its only a wee bit more expensive.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Link

Now this shows just how fast the GTS is compared to the X1950XTX. I would get the GTS because it gives you fast performance (compared to a GX2/X1950XTX) and better IQ.

Although drivers maybe the problem, it will be a problem to be resolved soon enough.

OCing a GTS could make it into GTX performance in DX9 games although we have no idea how these cards perform in DX10.

 

[Dave Richardson]

This is a finely balanced decision for me. I would like to go down the 8800 GTS route. However there are issues.

1) Teething problem with drivers - hopefully they will get fixed. Is there any indication that the problems are more fundamental?
2) How is the 8800GTS with older games - I have stuff going back to 1988. Can't live without an annual fix of MOO2, Starcraft, etc
3) DX10 - is it backwards compatible with DX9,8,...2? If not I'll probably not use it for many years, so going for a card with DX10 support isn't an issue.
4) Vista - in light of 3 above can Vista run with DX9 - if I need to run DX10 with Vista and my games library is unusable I won't use Vista. The beauty of the PC up till now has always been backwards compatibility.
5) Lately microsoft have been leaning on games producers to support only XP. I think XP is stable now and might upgrade to it from Win2K. I will not upgrade to Vista until 1st major service pack at least. Will MS try to kill XP support in new games. Does the 8800GTS have decent WIN2k support? Am I forced to run at least XP to get the 8800GTS?
6) Looking at the link provided by cookie monster and the info for Oblivion (my personal game of the year) note that the some settings for Radeon card are at medium - grass for instance but the 8800GTS is maxed out! For raw power the GTS is desirable.
7) Cooler - cant wait till end January I'm afraid.
8) Benchzowner - I don't overclock - I believe overclocking drastically reduces hardware life without elaborate cooling which I can't be bothered with. My mum taught me many years ago electricity and water don't mix which is why I don't make toast in the bath Though I have been thinking lately of just buying loads of cheap overclockable components and making the cheapest fastest rig I possibly can. This could become a VERY time consuming hobby. Dare I get into that?
9) Would it be worth - I wonder - gettting one of the really suberb mid range cards for a couple of months to let the the new high end product ranges mature. For 120 GBP it is possible to get a pretty respectable card and it never hurts to have a spare working card laying around.
10) Another thing lurking in the background just now is the change from 32 bit to 64 bit personal computing. Anyone around when we moved from 16 bit to 32 bit will remember the hassles
11) I can get an 8800GTS with a lifetime guarantee. Power supplies and High End graphics cards are the only hardware failures I ever experienced. (Thats enermax, Sapphire, Gainward - not cheap and nasty manufacturers)

 

[tuteja1986]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8800_preview/
Half life 2 Lost Coast HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 98.7
$450 8800GTS : 76.1
$400 X1950XTX : 53.7
$300 X1900XT : 49.5

Dark Messiah HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 101
$450 8800GTS : 72
$400 X1950XTX : 49.4
$300 X1900XT : 45.6

BF2142 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 77
$450 8800GTS : 51.1
$400 X1950XTX : 46.3
$300 X1900XT : 41.4

Quake 4 Ultra Quality 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 83.6
$450 8800GTS : 63.7
$400 X1950XTX : 48.7
$300 X1900XT : 43.2

Lock On: Mordern Air Combat 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 83.3
$450 8800GTS : 68.7
$400 X1950XTX : 48.7
$300 X1900XT : 42.9

Pacific Fighter 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 55.6
$450 8800GTS : 51.9
$400 X1950XTX : 42.8
$300 X1900XT : 39.5

FEAR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 69
$450 8800GTS : 50
$400 X1950XTX : 49
$300 X1900XT : 44

Oblivion Mountains HDR 1920x1200x32 0xAA 8xAF

$650 8800GTX : 101
$450 8800GTS : 79.8
$400 X1950XTX : 45.4
$300 X1900XT : 42.1

Oblivion Foliage Area HDR 1920x1200x32 0xAA 8xAF

$650 8800GTX : 52.7
$450 8800GTS : 38.6
$400 X1950XTX : 26.7
$300 X1900XT : 24.5

Oblivion HDR Mountain Area 1920x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF

$650 8800GTX : 70.5
$450 8800GTS : 46.5
$400 X1950XTX : 34
$300 X1900XT : 29.8

Oblivion HDR Foliage Area HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF

$650 8800GTX : 38.3
$450 8800GTS : 26.5
$400 X1950XTX : 23
$300 X1900XT : 20.6

Call of duty 2 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 55.6
$450 8800GTS : 41.3
$400 X1950XTX : 41.1
$300 X1900XT : 35.3

Farcry HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 88.1
$450 8800GTS : 63
$400 X1950XTX : 48.7
$300 X1900XT : 43.1

Company of Heroes 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

$650 8800GTX : 70.8
$450 8800GTS : 57
$400 X1950XTX : 36.4
$300 X1900XT : 33.3

As you can see X1900XTX can do 30FPS average @ 1920x1200 with most games but if you wanted a solid 60FPS ++ in almost every game than G80 is the way to go.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

considering that ati is about to release a new card sometime within 3-8months i figure, i personally would wait to see which one is the better of those. no point in buying a 300 dollar card now, when in that timeframe, the price will drop probly 50-100 dollars when it's released.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
considering that ati is about to release a new card sometime within 3-8months i figure, i personally would wait to see which one is the better of those. no point in buying a 300 dollar card now, when in that timeframe, the price will drop probly 50-100 dollars when it's released.

And then, theres no point in buying it either, because it will drop another 50-100 in the following months..

Dont wait

 

[thilanliyan]

If you're going to buy right NOW then get the G80 or wait a bit for R600 and more price cuts. Unless you can find the X1950XTX a whole lot cheaper then the GTS is a better buy.

 

[Dave Richardson]

Ok, since my last post I've been doing a lot of research on this.
(Thanks to Tuteja 1986 for his input!)

All Prices in GBP

If I am going to get a cheaper card to tide me over, I felt the right price was about 130

There are a bewildering array of families of cards out right now, I went to my favourite supplier's website and listed out the families and the minimum - maximum prices for each family inluding taxes but not delivery. I ignored AGP, PCI, 6200/6600/6800. I made a dinky little Excel spreadsheet and chart which revealed that my rather arbitrary pricepoint was above the budget cards but just into the mid-range cards.

8800 series 299 -587
7950 series 164 - 217
7900 series 118-235
7600 series 75 -117
7300 series 47 -82
x1950 series 135-315
x1900 series 132-264
x1650 series 69-108
x1300 series 41-76

Given my arbitrarily decided price, I rightly or wrongly eliminated families of cards based on price without even looking at technical specs.

8800 series 299 -587 Eliminated too expensive
7950 series 164 - 217 Eliminated too expensive
7900 series 118-235 In range
7600 series 75 -117 Maybe top of range of interest, but eliminated too cheap
7300 series 47 -82 Eliminated too cheap
x1950 series 135-315 Just in range
x1900 series 132-264 Just in range
x1650 series 69-108 Maybe top of range of interest, but eliminated too cheap
x1300 series 41-76 Eliminated - too cheap

This left me with 3 ranges of cards. Within these ranges I counted the number of cards I felt comfortable paying for from my favourite supplier - 117 to 158

7900 series 7 cards All 7900GS
1900 series 1 card X1900 GT
x1950 series 3 cards All X1950 Pros

I then poked around in some forums on hardware sites where it seemed the better options were the X1950 Pros I therefore eliminated the others

7900 series 7 cards All 7900GS Eliminated
1900 series 1 card X1900 GT Eliminated
x1950 series 3 cards All X1950 Pros Go with these

x1950 series:
1) HIS ATI Radeon x1950 Pro ICEQ 3 Turbo Silent Heatpipe 256MB GDDR3 etc.. 147
2) Powercolor ATI Radeon x1950 Pro Extreme Silent Heatpipe 256MB GDDR3 etc 152
3) Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB GDDR3 etc... 135

At this point the Powercolor and HIS looked sound choices for my budget.

BUT...

I noticed my favourite supplier had a special offer:
Connect 3D ATI Radeon X1950XT 256MB GDDR3 etc for 164

My forum browsing had revealed that the X1950XT is a superior offering to the X1950 Pro on paper. It is clocked faster and has more pixel shaders. So another 12 GBP gets me an even better card on paper but my 130 budget is slipping.

Well - I hate noise from graphics cards and I saw that my favourite supplier has:
HIS ATI RADEON X1950XT ICEQ 3 TURBO SILENT HEATPIPE 256MB GDDR3 etc for 199

So I will wave goodbye to my 130 budget and go for this one I think, short term, and around Feb or March see whats happening in the video card world. The selected card may be good enough to last longer. Its only a 256MB card but the jump to more memory takes me way off budget and I can't justify that.

I didn't look closely enough at the 7950 series given the price point I ended up at - but I prefer AMD/ATI. Sad they are both taking a probably terminal pasting about now.


I hope this little monlogue is of help to someone.

Edit: The forum has wiped out my table formatting - sorry.

 

[BFG10K]

2) How is the 8800GTS with older games - I have stuff going back to 1988

Currently the drivers have a lot of issues in older 3D games.

3) DX10 - is it backwards compatible with DX9,8,...2?

Of course.

4) Vista - in light of 3 above can Vista run with DX9

Yes.

Does the 8800GTS have decent WIN2k support?

At the moment the drivers are only for XP but I'm pretty sure you can use them on 2000 since the driver model is the same.