Radon Detection and Mitigation - A Scam?

[edro]

I am selling my house and the buyer ordered a Radon detection as part of the inspection.
We don't know the results yet, but I talked with the inspector and he seemed like a spokesman for Radon mitigation.

Not only does he test for Radon @ $150 per test, but he also sells the mitigation service for $1000. Talking with him about it, he said that most of the homes in the area are over the 4 pCi/L EPA limit.

Searching Google for "Radon Scam" comes up with numerous websites of people claiming that the EPA limit is arbitrarily low, as are most EPA limits, and that there are no studies proving that radon is the cause of lung cancer.

Sooo... what are your radon stories?
Ever had your house tested? What was the limit? Did you get the mitigation service?

BTW, the simplest mitigation service involves putting a cap over your sump pump hole and pumping it outside using a PVC pipe and fan.

 

[NetWareHead]

Note:

I do not endorse the following, just providing the information if you choose to go down this path.

A buddy of mine was in a similar situation as you and had to have a radon test done. The technician put a tester on the floor of his basement and said he would come back the next day to pick it up. As soon as the guy left, my friend placed the tester outside and then returned it to its place right before the tester showed up.

Of course the results showed negative for radon.

 

[NetWareHead]

Not only does he test for Radon @ $150 per test, but he also sells the mitigation service for $1000. Talking with him about it, he said that most of the homes in the area are over the 4 pCi/L EPA limit.

Searching Google for "Radon Scam" comes up with numerous websites of people claiming that the EPA limit is arbitrarily low, as are most EPA limits, and that there are no studies proving that radon is the cause of lung cancer.

BTW, do you really want to mess with Radon? No matter what level the EPA sets? Arbitrarily low or high, radon is a radioactive gas and can give you cancer? Do some more research on Radon and it's decay products. The connection between cancer and radon has been clearly established.

 

[edro]

BTW, do you really want to mess with Radon? No matter what level the EPA sets? Arbitrarily low or high, radon is a radioactive gas and can give you cancer? Do some more research on Radon and it's decay products. The connection between cancer and radon has been clearly established.

That seems to be the general consensus... which scares me.
I'm not saying it is a scam, I am just saying that it has all of the tell tale signs of being a scam.

1. EPA (or government body) sets low limit on known carcinogen.
2. The carcinogen is odorless, tasteless, invisible.
3. There is a simple test, for a fee.
4. There is a simple solution, for a manageable fee.

If the mitigation was $5000, I think there would be much more investigation into it.
Right now, it just seems that everyone is paying the $1000 and moving on with their lives.

The only info you can find online is Radon Mitigation services, citing the exact same statistics from the EPA. There doesn't seem to be any independent studies, and because it is a carcinogen, everyone is going the "better safe than sorry" route.

It's the same with aspertame, asbestos, lead, etc.
Sure they are cancerous, but the amounts absorbed by the average person are far too low to have an impact.

If it were a real concern, every newly built house would have it installed.

 

[Lotheron]

They didn't have this done when you bought the house like 4 years ago?

 

[StrangerGuy]

Sunlight is by far a higher cancer risk than all the radon you ever get in contact with your entire life.

 

[KB]

There does seem to be a risk to radon: http://www.epa.gov/radon/risk_assessment.html

And if there is any risk you do want to mitigate it if possible. The reason why inspectors push testing and mitigation is because its easy to do and they can charge a lot. People want to sell their home and are willing to pay big to help it happen.

 

[NetWareHead]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetWareHead View Post
BTW, do you really want to mess with Radon? No matter what level the EPA sets? Arbitrarily low or high, radon is a radioactive gas and can give you cancer? Do some more research on Radon and it's decay products. The connection between cancer and radon has been clearly established.
That seems to be the general consensus... which scares me.
I'm not saying it is a scam, I am just saying that it has all of the tell tale signs of being a scam.

1. EPA (or government body) sets low limit on known carcinogen.
2. The carcinogen is odorless, tasteless, invisible.
3. There is a simple test, for a fee.
4. There is a simple solution, for a manageable fee.

If the mitigation was $5000, I think there would be much more investigation into it.
Right now, it just seems that everyone is paying the $1000 and moving on with their lives.

The only info you can find online is Radon Mitigation services, citing the exact same statistics from the EPA. There doesn't seem to be any independent studies, and because it is a carcinogen, everyone is going the "better safe than sorry" route.


If it were a real concern, every newly built house would have it installed.

You are sorely mistaken. It is a concern but it has to do with the fact that the soil and rock type surrounding each house is different as well as different types of foundations will allow more of this gas to enter the residence. The soil permeability to radon is also a critical factor here. Every house can be a different situation.

Radon is responsible for the majority of ppl's exposure to background radiation and therefore it is everywhere. In nature radon is not much of a problem since it disperses and cannot form harmful concentrations. Allowed to accumulate in tight spaces it poses a health hazard.

So what if Radon is tasteless, odorless and invisible? Those are properties of the element and not a part of some scam. The test for it is also cheap. As far as the EPA limit, it is set low bc Radon is poisonous and has been linked with cancer. Radon is part of Uranium's decay chain...do you realty want that in your house? When radon decays, it produces all of the elements seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decay_chain#Radium_series_.28also_known_as_Uranium_series.29. Many of them are radioactive and can be dispersed throughout your house, getting into the food you eat, air your breathe and carried around with you on your clothes, all the while irradiating you.

It's the same with aspertame, asbestos, lead, etc.
Sure they are cancerous, but the amounts absorbed by the average person are far too low to have an impact.

Lol did you just really compare Radon to aspartame? Even lead in small amounts is poisonous. I think you should do some more research on radon and radioactivity to fully understand what you are dealing with. Radon decay releases alpha and beta particles which you should look up to find what they can do to a human body.

 

[edro]

They didn't have this done when you bought the house like 4 years ago?

No, I didn't do a radon test when I bought it.
I thought it was a scam back then and still do.

 

[rudder]

Some states are more susceptible to radon than others. Tennessee for example has a lot of rocks under the soil. Testing is highly recommended.. even if you do not own a basement. Other states... YMMV.

 

[drum]

No, I didn't do a radon test when I bought it.
I thought it was a scam back then and still do.

ooo I don't feel very well :sneaky:

 

[edro]

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/12/13/the-epas-other-hockey-stick-the-radon-scam/

 

[OutHouse]

so what exactly does a mitigation company do to fix it? roll out thick mill plastic under the house in the crawl space?

nevermind

"If you sell a home and the resulting radon inspection yields a reading of 4 picocuries (pCi) per liter of air, you’ll probably be on the hook for the “abatement”. This means having a licensed installer rig up some PVC pipe, a vent and an electric fan in your basement while charging you a grand or two for his troubles."

 

[ScoobMaster]

I have always questioned these findings.

Especially when you compare This map of radon severity

With this map of lung cancer rates

If there IS a conclusive risk link, wouldn't the high rates line up more with the higher radon concentration?

 

[lxskllr]

I have always questioned these findings.

Especially when you compare This map of radon severity

With this map of lung cancer rates

If there IS a conclusive risk link, wouldn't the high rates line up more with the higher radon concentration?

You can't compare the 2 maps. You have to take all the risk factors into account. Smoking is a big one, and you'll notice the cancer areas also fall in the less affluent areas, which corresponds to higher smoking rates. That's only 1 risk factor. There's tons of others that need to be taken into account also.

 

[Vette73]

I have always questioned these findings.

Especially when you compare This map of radon severity

With this map of lung cancer rates

If there IS a conclusive risk link, wouldn't the high rates line up more with the higher radon concentration?

Ahhh... Radon is not the ONLY cause of cancer you know.

 

[TruePaige]

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/12/13/the-epas-other-hockey-stick-the-radon-scam/

A bunch of conspiracy theorist right wing nutjobs don't help your case, edro.

I don't think Radon is THAT bad compared to the rest of the crap out there, but for $1000 bucks...meh.

 

[pcnerd37]

$150 for a radon test?! Our local health department gives them out for free as they are really pushing that everybody test their house right now because our county has been rated as having high levels of it. I got the results back on ours last week and our levels were 3.4 pCi/L so we aren't horribly worried about it since we don't much go in the basement anyway. We plan on looking into the various ways of getting the levels reduced in the future but probably not until at least this summer.

 

[ussfletcher]

In Michigan, primarily south eastern (Oakland) we have a huge radon problem that isn't often addressed. Like said previously, it really depends on where you live. But in a high risk location paying $150, and then going and buying a few gallons of sealer are going to be a better payoff than an early death.

 

[Jumpem]

I wouldn't buy a house without getting a radon test. It's normal, just like the home inspection, pest inspection, and water inspection.

 

[darkswordsman17]

So, its not a scam, but $1000 for mitigation is a bit much. Sounds like they take advantage of the turnover when buying a house, where a thousand, especially for something safety/health related is probably not going to be a big deal. I would guess its something that gets valued a bit too much, and so buyer's are willing to act stupid over it (such as walk if you're not willing to pay to have the mitigation done). Of course, you could probably also spin it the other direction and get more than it costs you by pointing it out to potential buyers.

 

[Squisher]

In Michigan, primarily south eastern (Oakland) we have a huge radon problem that isn't often addressed. Like said previously, it really depends on where you live. But in a high risk location paying $150, and then going and buying a few gallons of sealer are going to be a better payoff than an early death.

The solution usually involves installing a fan to draw out any air from the foundation/drain tile under the house along with caulking the perimeter of where basement walls meet the basement floor and putting check valves in any basement floor drains.

 

[greenmtrider]

Radon is a huge scam and I got taken to sell my house here in VT on a sand pit. I know no one that has died from lung cancer from radon does anyone?. The new house that I am going to was not tested. The same home inspector did both homes, he was shocked that we did not let him run the test. The expresion that I got from him was just like I took money out of his pocket.

 

[greenmtrider]

One other thing, the same home inspector does the radon mitigation. Imagine that.

 

[OutHouse]

wow necro thread!!