Rage...

[DucatiMonster696]

Quake 4 gameplay was outdated when the game was released.

Very few people like to backtrack to find a key, or escort someone back through the level.

Ever since the release of half-life in 1998, game design has been going towards linear or open world designs.

Quake 4 and doom 3 used pretty much the same type of design that the original Doom used. You had to backtrack to get stuff, then go back through the level a second time.

As for Rage, if it tries to use the find the key, find the pda, backtrack to get something to open a door,,,,,,, the game is going to fail.

The big thing about rage, will the developers opt for an open world system like what fallout 3 has, or a semi-open world like what borderlands has, or will they use the same old system that id has used since Doom?

If I buy Rage, and have to backtrack a single time, the game is going to be removed from my system and put on the shelf.

John Carmack pretty much stated in a recent interview(worth watching IMHO):

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...wares-john-carmack-20-minute-video-interview/

that Rage is a big departure from the Doom 3 engine. Rage was built to handle open world and indoor environments and the game has both. John also stated that his views on consoles being the lead development platform of choice for gaming developers has changed. John feels the PC is better suited for a development and optimization platform for multi-platform games. His reason is the huge lag time in console hardware updates which have the PC pretty much beating consoles hands down in the technology department. Oh and he gives a big nod toward game-play actually being more important then graphics which is shocking considering the guy is a graphics engine designer that has very little say on the actual decisions of game-play mechanics, etc.

 

[gorobei]

So what IS the next great thing in games you want to see? What hasn't been done yet that you want to see?

Physics has been the redheaded step child of the industry because it tends to require massive resources. There was a brief push to create processors just for physics, but it didn't go anywhere with the industry due to the added expense and consoles taking over the market. Now the technology has finally caught up and the next generation consoles should come with quad core processors and modern graphics cards capable of some serious physics and even ray tracing.

i doubt the next gen of consoles will have enough horsepower to spare for full physics. they have enough problems now at <720p no AA, much less 1080i @60hz or 3d1080i @ 30hz. they may plan ahead and toss an 8 or 12 core cpu/cell in the next gen and hope for good apu physics to turn up, but no one is going to commit to it now.

As far as what needs to come next, given the pass down rate of tech from film/commecials 3dcg:
-full physics on all destructable envirionments (no more invisible walls or unbreakable shrubbery).
-full body morph/blend shapes instead of 2 joint vertex weighting (no more funky shoulders on humans).
-real time radiosity at decent sampling rates with proper ambient occlusion compositing.
-real time softbody simulation on cloth/hair/flesh
-raytraced reflection/refraction/diffusion
-full 3d volumetrics instead of sprites.

 

[Aikouka]

i doubt the next gen of consoles will have enough horsepower to spare for full physics. they have enough problems now at <720p no AA, much less 1080i @60hz or 3d1080i @ 30hz. they may plan ahead and toss an 8 or 12 core cpu/cell in the next gen and hope for good apu physics to turn up, but no one is going to commit to it now.

I wonder if Sony would consider the physics processing. They're already using nVidia in the PS3; what if the PS4 used a lower powered GeForce GPU for physics along with a higher-powered GeForce GPU for graphics. Imagine the big hoopla that they could drum up by saying they worked with nVidia to enable true PhysX processing on the PS4 .

 

[KeithP]

Rage has been pushed back to October 4.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/10/rage-delay/

-KeithP

 

[wuliheron]

i doubt the next gen of consoles will have enough horsepower to spare for full physics. they have enough problems now at <720p no AA, much less 1080i @60hz or 3d1080i @ 30hz. they may plan ahead and toss an 8 or 12 core cpu/cell in the next gen and hope for good apu physics to turn up, but no one is going to commit to it now.

I'm not talking about "full physics" (whatever that means!) Merely a significant leap forward in a long neglected area. With 8 core processors coming to the desktop and quad core to the consoles and both using modern graphics cards not limited to things like cuda it looks like physics can finally break out of the doldrums.

 

[mizzou]

made it annoying to switch between the flashlight and the guns).

I think the premise of that was to make it more "scary" so that when you shot your gun you didn't have the ability to turn the lights on and make all the monsters go away.

It definitely pissed alot of people off, but I liked it because it made the game more unnerving in a more horror'esque kind of way.

Really the game played like a 1990's sci fi hack and slash thriller. Stuff obviously popped out in obvious locations and every time the lights go off, you knew what you were in for.

I dont' know, it made me a bit nostalgic but I would have loved to have a M4 Carbine with a tac-light so you could smoke down the zombies.

 

[Cerb]

In fact, Quake II has ranked as one of the most overhyped games of all time.

Q2's single player was not what made it special. It is one of the best FPS because of FFA DM. Oh, and modding. Today's Towers + Lithium = :biggrin:

As to Rage, I'll probably get it, but what I really want to see is Id Tech 5 used in as many Zenimax games as possible, which will hopefully improve the quality of them overall.

 

[wuliheron]

Q2's single player was not what made it special. It is one of the best FPS because of FFA DM. Oh, and modding. Today's Towers + Lithium = :biggrin:

As to Rage, I'll probably get it, but what I really want to see is Id Tech 5 used in as many Zenimax games as possible, which will hopefully improve the quality of them overall.

Yeah, I was hoping it could be used in fallout or some flying games to improve the draw distances, textures, and overall stability but no can do. It was designed for a modern corridor shooter with somewhat larger open spaces, but not that open!

 

[DaveSimmons]

Also, TexasHiker's "overhyped" link is from GameSpy, which isn't a site I ever cared about for game reviews.

Computer Gaming World (most trusted gaming mag for PCs at the time) gave Q2 their Action Game of the Year award for 2007 and 4.5/5 in their review.

So in appealing to authority, I win

Edit: if TH had said Quake _III_ was overhyped, I'd agree. It was completely overshadowed by Unreal Tournament.

 

[Murdoc]

Don't know if I missed it before but Steam has the store page up for this game. I was also hoping that it would be like Borderlands, although, from what I read, co-op mode is just some re-vamped single player missions. And with a $60 pre-purchase price tag, I'm going to be holding off for a while. If it gets a rep as a decent shooter, I'll pick it up during a price drop.

 

[tonygeor]

I agree that since Quake 3 arena...id games pretty much sucked.

Ever since Quake, the quality of Id software games has been questionable. Except for Quake live and Quake III arena, everything since Quake II has not impressed me. In fact, Quake II has ranked as one of the most overhyped games of all time.

The way I see it, ever since John Romero left Id, the quality of Id games has continued to drop.

When I saw Quake 4, I grabbed it the first time I saw it on the store shelves. After playing for about an hour, the game was uninstalled and put on the shelf.

Doom 3, I bought it the day it was released. The original version had a bug that prevented the player from being able to finish the game. You had to go online, download a patch just to be able to progress past a certain point. Overall, I was not impressed with doom 3 at all.

Rage,,,,, I dont know. One of the preview videos showed a remote control car like in black ops. Where do you get a remote controlled car after a nuclear war?

I will probably buy rage, but not when its released. Chances are I will wait for reviews, and wait for the first price reduction.

 

[JSt0rm]

I liked doom3. Scary fucking game.

 

[greenhawk]

doom 3 was so-so. Too scary for my liking at the time so never finished it.

Quake 3 arena I felt was crap, but then I did not have a internet connection at the time and the AI was only worth playing so much.

Quake 4 I enjoyed but felt was too short / too similar to most other games so was wearing the quake name falsly.

Was not a large fan of quake 2 either. Was good, but no fond memories of it.

quake 1, doom 1, doom 2. Way way way too much time spent on them

 

[blackened23]

Ever since Quake, the quality of Id software games has been questionable. Except for Quake live and Quake III arena, everything since Quake II has not impressed me. In fact, Quake II has ranked as one of the most overhyped games of all time.

The way I see it, ever since John Romero left Id, the quality of Id games has continued to drop.

When I saw Quake 4, I grabbed it the first time I saw it on the store shelves. After playing for about an hour, the game was uninstalled and put on the shelf.

Doom 3, I bought it the day it was released. The original version had a bug that prevented the player from being able to finish the game. You had to go online, download a patch just to be able to progress past a certain point. Overall, I was not impressed with doom 3 at all.

Rage,,,,, I dont know. One of the preview videos showed a remote control car like in black ops. Where do you get a remote controlled car after a nuclear war?

I will probably buy rage, but not when its released. Chances are I will wait for reviews, and wait for the first price reduction.

I disagree completely, id software games were always the best for multiplayer and were technology powerhouses for their time. Quakeworld/Q2 were great for their day....lets not forget how far id pushed the envelope in terms of online multiplayer gaming and technology. When quake/quakeworld were around, there was nothing like that at the time and that paved the way for similar games down the road. Tribes, counter strike, you name it and they were influenced by what id did years earlier.

As far as john romera, he created q1dm3 which I give him props for but the word is that he barely did any work at id.

Whatever though, haters gonna hate.

 

[Sureshot324]

I disagree completely, id software games were always the best for multiplayer and were technology powerhouses for their time. Quakeworld/Q2 were great for their day....lets not forget how far id pushed the envelope in terms of online multiplayer gaming and technology. When quake/quakeworld were around, there was nothing like that at the time and that paved the way for similar games down the road. Tribes, counter strike, you name it and they were influenced by what id did years earlier.

As far as john romera, he created q1dm3 which I give him props for but the word is that he barely did any work at id.

Whatever though, haters gonna hate.

ID has never been good at designing games. They've done great things as far as advancing the technology of games (graphics engines, net code, modding tools) but they've never really shown much talent in actually designing good games. The fact that some of their games are good is pretty much by accident.

The older Doom/Quake games were extremely simple. They had very generic levels and just threw hords of enemies at you. They were fun because nobody had ever played anything like it. Multiplayer was pretty much an afterthought at first. Just take the single player game, put some guns and powerups randomly through the map, and let multiple players connect. Up to Quake 1 they didn't tweek it much so the guns were horribly unbalanced and only a handful of maps were any good.

By some fluke, it ended up being really awesome, but that doesn't make them good game designers.

 

[blackened23]

ID has never been good at designing games. They've done great things as far as advancing the technology of games (graphics engines, net code, modding tools) but they've never really shown much talent in actually designing good games. The fact that some of their games are good is pretty much by accident.

The older Doom/Quake games were extremely simple. They had very generic levels and just threw hords of enemies at you. They were fun because nobody had ever played anything like it. Multiplayer was pretty much an afterthought at first. Just take the single player game, put some guns and powerups randomly through the map, and let multiple players connect. Up to Quake 1 they didn't tweek it much so the guns were horribly unbalanced and only a handful of maps were any good.

By some fluke, it ended up being really awesome, but that doesn't make them good game designers.

Is this a joke? doom and quake pretty simple, what? They were the FIRST to make a first person shooter and they influenced everyone that followed. Multiplayer an afterthought? I'm pretty sure quake was designed mostly for multiplayer and created a huge tournament/clan scene at the time.

Maybe you just didn't play PC games back then or something, another johnny come lately. Maybe thats why you dont understand how revolutionary doom/quake were.

As far as not designing good games, thats your opinion. Plenty of people enjoyed single player doom/d2/quake, I thought quake single player was a lot of fun - NIN also did the soundtrack which I found to be very good. PC technology didn't allow so much for grand storytelling back then especially for a first person shooter, and their audience were games that craved action. So whats they did, and did well.

 

[JSt0rm]

doom 3 was so-so. Too scary for my liking at the time so never finished it.

I honestly think this is why people didnt like it. I could only play the game for like 20 minutes at a time and I was dating this chick who loved horror films at the time so she sat with me while I played and watched the entire thing. All the jumps and scares really got both of us. Never even did the duct tape mod.

 

[JSt0rm]

Doom and quake were the beginnings of really the golden age of fps. Everything felt fresh and the gameplay was always amazing because it was new. The fucked up thing is the 13 year old kid playing cod15 is having a new experience as well so its hard for me to judge his experience. I do know that he is playing in the shadow of all those amazing games and i was lucky enough to play as it was happening.

 

[blackened23]

Doom and quake were the beginnings of really the golden age of fps. Everything felt fresh and the gameplay was always amazing because it was new. The fucked up thing is the 13 year old kid playing cod15 is having a new experience as well so its hard for me to judge his experience. I do know that he is playing in the shadow of all those amazing games and i was lucky enough to play as it was happening.

Very well said. I can't believe that someone would diss doom and quake, they were the first and their influence / advancement of the genre is undeniable.

 

[Dankk]

 

[wuliheron]

Doom and quake were the beginnings of really the golden age of fps. Everything felt fresh and the gameplay was always amazing because it was new. The fucked up thing is the 13 year old kid playing cod15 is having a new experience as well so its hard for me to judge his experience. I do know that he is playing in the shadow of all those amazing games and i was lucky enough to play as it was happening.

I think the fucked up thing is simply someone trolling. Anyone who claims Id doesn't know how to design games either needs antipsychotic meds or to put down the bong.

 

[motsm]

I think the fucked up thing is simply someone trolling. Anyone who claims Id doesn't know how to design games either needs antipsychotic meds or to put down the bong.

I fully believe Id can design old school PC games, but Rage is their first attempt at a health regen based shooter for the XBOX generation market, so their credentials don't apply so much if you ask me.

 

[wuliheron]

I fully believe Id can design old school PC games, but Rage is their first attempt at a health regen based shooter for the XBOX generation market, so their credentials don't apply so much if you ask me.

Its still a shooter and not like they tried to create an RTS or RPG. They have John Carmack who is considered the best in the business, some twenty years experience developing games, and spent six years on this one alone. The engine is the next evolution of the same one used to produce Brink which is already available on console. If after having all those advantages and putting all that time and effort into it they still managed to produce a total piece of crap they deserve every bit of scorn anyone cares to heap on them.

 

[AbAbber2k]

If I buy Rage, and have to backtrack a single time, the game is going to be removed from my system and put on the shelf.

Here's me hoping you backpedal while in combat and choose uninstall as a result.


Though to not be too much of a douche, I do understand your point.

 

[motsm]

Its still a shooter and not like they tried to create an RTS or RPG. They have John Carmack who is considered the best in the business, some twenty years experience developing games, and spent six years on this one alone. The engine is the next evolution of the same one used to produce Brink which is already available on console. If after having all those advantages and putting all that time and effort into it they still managed to produce a total piece of crap they deserve every bit of scorn anyone cares to heap on them.

John is sure to design a good engine, but that isn't really what I was talking about. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the detractors though, just pointing out that the Id reputation may not be the same going into a project like this. Id's success has been made essentially remaking the same game over and over again, and they aren't doing that this time, it's a significantly different beast than Doom and Quake.