I love how sub $15 wage workers are the new Cadillac driving welfare queens because they have a cell phone plan.
It's interesting to watch American workers throw each other under the bus and then complain about income inequality and lack of opportunity.
Honestly this is where I think the right should take a new tactic - agree to the $15/hour minimum wage but only if at the same time you repeal Davis-Bacon Act and invalidate any union contracts from tying to the raised min wage (e.g. contract stipulates that if minimum wage goes up, union member wages go up by the same amount). If the left so badly wants to pay a high school kid $15/hour to serve their skinny vanilla latte then have at it but that will be the end of it.
At least this idea dispenses with the fiction that conservatives actually care about the ability of private individuals to enter into contracts as they see fit.
That ship has already sailed, unions already support exemptions to allow min wage laws to apply to workers when it's convenient to the union.
http://www.economics21.org/html/why...lves-hard-fought-minimum-wage-hikes-1339.html
So unions are fighting for their own interests, what's surprising about that? I just found it interesting that as a conservative you are interested in restricting the ability of people to enter into private contracts. It makes it seem that you're more into attacking unions than you are about preserving personal freedom.
Like the personal freedom and right of contract of someone to avail themselves of the legal minimum wage even when a union tries to prevent them?
Like the personal freedom and right of contract of someone to avail themselves of the legal minimum wage even when a union tries to prevent them?
Honestly this is where I think the right should take a new tactic - agree to the $15/hour minimum wage but only if at the same time you repeal Davis-Bacon Act and invalidate any union contracts from tying to the raised min wage (e.g. contract stipulates that if minimum wage goes up, union member wages go up by the same amount). If the left so badly wants to pay a high school kid $15/hour to serve their skinny vanilla latte then have at it but that will be the end of it.
Less than 7% of private sector workers in unions and yet you still obsess about them? Your side murdered them and the middle class that was facilitated by them. We are all basking in the pleasure of diminishing paychecks, diminishing standard of living, diminishing security and diminishing opportunities.
Why are you still attempting to kill something that is dead and now rotting? YOU FUCKING WON! What we have in American today is the result of YOUR SIDE winning.
Talk about beating a dead horse. Conservatives act like unions are still relevant
What would you say exactly killed it? It trends right along with the drop in manufacturing jobs, of which most of the "private" sector is outside of trade unions and nursing. And what killed manufacturing? Healthcare costs, people wanting cheap shit, and ever increasing wages. Which is the whole argument in a nutshell. People want cheap stuff. But they want to be paid a lot too. Those are competing desires.
As a software developer myself, if you can't get a job in the industry, it means one of two things.
1. You really suck at your job and probably shouldn't be in the field anyways.
2. You think you are worth more than you are.
And you would be spot on.
This notion of paying someone based on what they "need" is full of shit. Mostly because expecting to have a livable wage off of any and every job is absurd. Do you think 30 years ago when kids were delivering newspapers by bike that they were able to afford to live on their own? How about bagging groceries?
By today's definition liberals *ACTUALLY BELIEVE* you NEED the following:
1) Smartphone will full data package, unlimited minutes and text.
(I am on a month-to-month plan that costs < $100 for my family. It's also required for work and I bought my phone used and haven't felt the need to upgrade for the last 3 years)
2) Cable / Satellite TV - Extended package with ESPN
(I have no cable, only internet - and I minimize the cost of it. Also required for work)
3) Ability to be able to afford to go out and have fun - have drinks, get a nice ribeye at least once a week. Oh and a case of Bud Light every week at the grocery store
(We make meal plans for eating at home on a regular basis with the occasional night out)
4) A place to stay - but not just any roof over your head. When you're making $7.25 working a drive-thru you shouldn't have to share an apartment with 1-3 other people - no no no - at MINIMUM you are entitled to a 2-bedroom apartment so you have enough space to store all the junk that you buy
(I make upper-middle wages but live in a lower-middle house)
5) A new car every 5 years. The moment that car loan is paid off it's time to trade it in! Oh and it has to be new - none of that used shit either.
(I've had my '08 sedan since when I graduated from college - bought it used)
6) I gotta have the latest and greatest TV, 60" 4K with 3D. This 50" just isn't cutting it anymore!
(I have an old 37" plasma upstairs and another 37" LCD - both of which are 10+ years old by now)
All of these describe the lower class in the states. I've said it before, go down the poorest neighborhood you can think of. You will see a satellite dish on every single one of the homes.
Oh let's not forget...
7) I'm entitled to MY body and if I want kids I can have ALL the kids I WANT! Oh, and you gotta pay for them too
(I've been with my wife for ~5 years now, and extensively discussed plans for having kids at the correct time)
AMEN MY BROTHER.
This Post probably sums up my entire thread.
This is the pure form of what I was trying to say, but trying to say within a political manner. I tend to feel those who are complaining about min wage have no room to complain. It's min wage, before you complain look at yourself in the mirror. Look at your skill and skill sets. Look how those skills stack up to society. Look at the commercial value of the skills you have.
Can you point to any posts on this board that show liberals actually believe ANY of the things he mentioned? I mean like even one.
He exaggerated a little to drive the point home.
But if you want to see an example of what he's saying. Go to Baltimore City (where I worked for 4 years, lived for 10) to the ghetto. Drive down any residential neighborhood. You can see from the homes and the areas either people are on Section 8 renting or they own. These are low socioeconomic neighborhood with service workers. You see......
1. 5 DirectTV satellite dishes on every home.
2. A car not older than a few years (new) Cadillac, BMW, Lexus, Audi.
3. Expensive shoes, clothes, makeup, hair treatments.
And that is just the outside. If you had the opportunity to open each of their mailboxes and look their their mail, go into their homes and see the general husband/wife gf/bf conversations you will see more!
He exaggerated a little to drive the point home.
But if you want to see an example of what he's saying. Go to Baltimore City (where I worked for 4 years, lived for 10) to the ghetto. Drive down any residential neighborhood. You can see from the homes and the areas either people are on Section 8 renting or they own. These are low socioeconomic neighborhood with service workers. You see......
1. 5 DirectTV satellite dishes on every home.
2. A car not older than a few years (new) Cadillac, BMW, Lexus, Audi.
3. Expensive shoes, clothes, makeup, hair treatments.
And that is just the outside. If you had the opportunity to open each of their mailboxes and look their their mail, go into their homes and see the general husband/wife gf/bf conversations you will see more!
In another thread I pointed out that the cost of health care for a family of four exceeds what one can make at minimum wage. Are you putting health care costs as discretionary now? Health care costs alone are far higher than ALL of the items you listed COMBINED.
Instead of beating up on the poorest of the poor why not attack the people who actually exported our jobs? China is eating our lunch and is the number one manufacturer in the world because American companies were allowed to move their factories overseas to ship goods back to America. The monied elite purchased politicians to get this done. They are the ones who have damaged America and the middle class almost beyond repair....... and yet you still blame the poorest of the poor.
Do you have any concept of enlightened self-interest? I just don't understand your thinking at all. It is like there is a mugger strangling you to death and you ignore the strangler and freak out about a bunny rabbit that happens to walk across your foot.
I lived in Prospect Lefferts Gardens for two years and also worked in Spanish Harlem for a year, which are both exactly the type of neighborhoods you are describing and I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. I find the whole direct TV thing to be kind of pointless as not only does the public housing near where I live not have a lot of those dishes up but the monthly cost starts at about $50, and $50 a month is hardly a symbol of excessive largess. As far as cars go, most of the people in that neighborhood didn't even have cars, but the ones that were owned were most certainly not some new Lexus or whatever. That's ridiculous.
Why do you think we've had such dramatically different experiences with people in public housing? I'm serious when I say I've seen basically nothing like you describe.
Poor people do tend to spend more on clothes and other status symbols like that, but if you work with the poor you'll see those are attempts to project that they aren't as poor as they actually are. It's probably not a good use of money, but psychologically I understand.
If you want to discuss Healthcare. I'm not for Obamacare. I don't agree with the whole compulsory medical insurance thing. While I was in College, after college, early jobs I HAD NO HEALTHCARE. For several years I lacked health care. No it wasn't good, it was a risk, hell I could have been hit by a bus and had 10K medical bill.
But this MOTIVATED ME to work hard and dance during job interviews to get a job that had good healthcare. Since then I have never been w/o healthcare and it's not a financial issue.
I lived in Prospect Lefferts Gardens for two years and also worked in Spanish Harlem for a year, which are both exactly the type of neighborhoods you are describing and I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. I find the whole direct TV thing to be kind of pointless as not only does the public housing near where I live not have a lot of those dishes up but the monthly cost starts at about $50, and $50 a month is hardly a symbol of excessive largess. As far as cars go, most of the people in that neighborhood didn't even have cars, but the ones that were owned were most certainly not some new Lexus or whatever. That's ridiculous.
Why do you think we've had such dramatically different experiences with people in public housing? I'm serious when I say I've seen basically nothing like you describe.
Poor people do tend to spend more on clothes and other status symbols like that, but if you work with the poor you'll see those are attempts to project that they aren't as poor as they actually are. It's probably not a good use of money, but psychologically I understand.
Of course it isn't..... until it is. When you are old and no longer working, your perspective is going to change drastically. This is especially true if you end up winning the lottery of diseases and get one that costs more than your insurance will cover. My wife's parents lost their home and life savings due to health issues when they go into their 60s. Health care as percent of GNP is nearly 20%. I was alive when it was only 5%.
A 10k medical bill..... LMFAO!! My wife's cancer treatment was nearly 0.5 million. If you would have gotten cancer at that time, should we have thrown you in a ditch and let you die? Do you not see the unfairness of giving you care when you refused to pay for the insurance? That is why it should be compulsory and everybody should pay. It should be socialized so that the healthy help subsidize the sick.
No, this is where it should be "triaged" as you put it and folks allowed to die. Exactly what you argued for. And like I said earlier and you have conveniently refused to address, Medicaid is already on a path to irrelevance as the majority of doctors now no longer accept it and this will only rise as time goes along. What next, you'll take the next logical step in "compulsory" and start directly stealing the labor and services of doctors?
You are confusing minimum wage with prevailing wage. But it's nice to see conservatism come out as an anti-worker movement.Honestly this is where I think the right should take a new tactic - agree to the $15/hour minimum wage but only if at the same time you repeal Davis-Bacon Act and invalidate any union contracts from tying to the raised min wage (e.g. contract stipulates that if minimum wage goes up, union member wages go up by the same amount). If the left so badly wants to pay a high school kid $15/hour to serve their skinny vanilla latte then have at it but that will be the end of it.