Rancher Ordered To Pay Illegal Aliens Because He Assaulted Them On His Property

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
No I have, and it depends on the base. If you are talking about more of the open bases like say Hickam, or Randolph here in Texas, then the chances of being shot if trespassing are very very slim. But you try that at Norad, or Shreiver, or more closely guarded installations and the chances of being shot for trespassing increase dramatically depending upon the circumstances of the trespass.

What are you basing this on? Having stood watch all over the US and the world, including areas with significant classified information, I have never once been told to shoot people on sight for trespassing, nor have I ever known someone who has been given this order. Even in war zones the rules of engagement require you cause to believe someone is an imminent threat to you or others before firing. Can you tell me the last time someone has been shot for the simple act of trespassing on a military base? This would be a SERIOUS deviation of standing orders for sentries, particularly in the United States.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Clearly our neighbors should have invited that violent problem into their homes, by the tens of millions. Oh right, they never had to do that, because a third (and counting) of all Americans didn't need to flee the country.

I'm not actually sure what point you're getting across here, but I think it sounds like you're trying to look out for the welfare of those Americans that live on the border. Which is all well and good, but I think they feel more threatened than they actually are.


We have nations, borders, a rule of law, for a reason.

That people cannot respect that is a sign of the times we live in. "We're all human" is not enough.

A sign of the times? People have been coming to America from foreign countries since day one. And I mean human in the sense that all humans are vulnerable to the same flaws everyone is so quick to point out in immigrants. They are no better, no worse.

You'll have a nice field of crops with that strawman. Go find someone it applies to. If you're so keen to fill in the blanks, to reply to me with what you THINK I think, let me fill it in for you. Saves you the trouble of making shit up next time.

When the only thought you express, in so many words, is "They are different because they are violent" one can only gather so much information. It's an inference at worst, no need to be so hostile.


Mexico's problems are with its people. A third of its population moved up here, and many counties in our nation are teeming full of poverty stricken violence ridden illegals from south of the border. Most importantly, there's a very real segregation and alienation between them and US citizens. They are not treated as equals, they are an abused underclass akin to slave labor and this scenario is going to explode some day.

Maybe you'll notice it the first time this alienated population assumes majority control of a state, such as California. An impoverished and alienated population within the United States, numbering in the tens of millions (and growing to become a hundred million within our life time) whose national and cultural identity remain with their former home is the biggest domestic crisis we have faced since the civil war.

Every countries problem's lie with it's people. And I agree their treatment is very poor, I grew up alongside some of them and have worked with them as an adult. You are entirely correct saying that there is a cultural disconnect between much of the Hispanic population and the white (and black) populations. And the abuse of their willingness to work is dangerous for both sides.

But I don't understand the implication or connection between saying "they are violent" and "they are mistreated". It's almost paradoxical because, while it of course exists, I can't say I've heard much about Pro-Hispanic [hate] crimes. But there could be a lot of reasons for that (it's easier to sell the big guy beating up the little guy than vice versa).

I also don't see the fault with them wanting to retain their heritage. There's some degree of integration expected but most of the Hispanics I've ever dealt with have at least known enough English to function or had a family member or friend to speak through. Painting them holding onto what they feel makes them "them" as a problem is, I think, intolerant. If you move to another country are you going to learn their national anthem, adopt all their nuances, behaviors, tendencies and just let go of your own traditions and ideas? I doubt it and I wouldn't ask you to at any rate.

Additionally, to say a third of their population just up and walked across the border is misleading. True Mexico has about ~110M people and true the Hispanic-Mexican population in the US is about ~30M, but that's not accounting at all for the fact that some Mexican families have been here for generations, had children here, grown the population. They didn't simply have some mass exodus.

Albeit dated and since the 1980 census the Hispanic population has grown 3-4x (So the numbers I found seemed to indicate) so while it's probably shifted, I would think the native born percent of Mexican-Americans to be very substantial, if not still the majority.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
What are you basing this on? Having stood watch all over the US and the world, including areas with significant classified information, I have never once been told to shoot people on sight for trespassing, nor have I ever known someone who has been given this order. Even in war zones the rules of engagement require you cause to believe someone is an imminent threat to you or others before firing. Can you tell me the last time someone has been shot for the simple act of trespassing on a military base? This would be a SERIOUS deviation of standing orders for sentries, particularly in the United States.

Uhhh basing this off an incident at work a few weeks ago. A coworker I know was heading to a very locked down base to do some repairs. He left his badge in his luggage in the trunk of the rental car, and while he was driving up to the gate he suddenly remembered that he left his badge. So he stops in a NO STOPPING ZONE close to gate and proceeds to get out of the car and to head around to the trunk. Now my coworker, for description sakes, is a really big muslim man. I mean BIG guy! He also tends to get focused on what he is thinking about and not his surroundings, so when the gate guards were yelling at him to get to the ground as they were running at him with their rifles at ready, he didn't notice them at all. It wasn't until they FIRED AT HIM, as a warning shot, did he realize what a major stupid thing he did as they proceeded to tackle him while jamming the butt of their barrel at the base of his neck as they cuffed him.

YOU obviously have no fricking clue as to what you are talking about either as I have served in the military and continue to serve as DoD.
 

fisheerman

Senior member
Oct 25, 2006
733
0
0
meh, there was a guy who shot somebody on his farm a while ago and there was an attorney and policeman being interviewed that says he's protected and no crime was commited. He didn't kill the guy and the guy is trying to sue but was tossed out. Castle doctrine does cover trespassing and defense of property.

We had a guy here that shot a guy from inside his house, that was stealing a dog box from his truck and was fleeing. He didn't get charged. VA is for lovers

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/02/retired-cop-who-shot-intruder-suffolk-wont-be-charged
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
We had a guy here that shot a guy from inside his house, that was stealing a dog box from his truck and was fleeing. He didn't get charged. VA is for lovers

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/02/retired-cop-who-shot-intruder-suffolk-wont-be-charged
Getting shot should be considered a normal, legitimate work-related hazard for those self-employed as thieves and rapists, whether inside the house or not.

Besides including a lot of suspect numbers, such as reporting as deported those illegals issued deport thyself letters, being harsher on illegal immigration than Bush is like being hotter than the other chick in the Yugoslavian Weight Watchers Remedial Group, Seniors Division - not so impressive. Just as Clinton was China's bitch, Bush was Mexico's bitch.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Uhhh basing this off an incident at work a few weeks ago. A coworker I know was heading to a very locked down base to do some repairs. He left his badge in his luggage in the trunk of the rental car, and while he was driving up to the gate he suddenly remembered that he left his badge. So he stops in a NO STOPPING ZONE close to gate and proceeds to get out of the car and to head around to the trunk. Now my coworker, for description sakes, is a really big muslim man. I mean BIG guy! He also tends to get focused on what he is thinking about and not his surroundings, so when the gate guards were yelling at him to get to the ground as they were running at him with their rifles at ready, he didn't notice them at all. It wasn't until they FIRED AT HIM, as a warning shot, did he realize what a major stupid thing he did as they proceeded to tackle him while jamming the butt of their barrel at the base of his neck as they cuffed him.

YOU obviously have no fricking clue as to what you are talking about either as I have served in the military and continue to serve as DoD.

Did you get their names and ranks? What base was this at? I certainly hope you reported this violation to their security desk as warning shots are explicitly prohibited by DoD in accordance with DoD directive 5210.56. If they were firing at him, they better have intended to hit him. Either way, whoever fired those will have a lot of explaining to do.

As far as yelling at people who stop in no stopping zones in cars and treating them as a threat however, that's absolutely the case. Then again that is something COMPLETELY different than trespassing, because parking a car in the no stopping area at a checkpoint could be a car bomb. People thinking you might be about to detonate a bomb does not equal trespassing. Hell, since its likely the no stopping part was outside the gate, he probably wasn't trespassing at all.

As I asked before, please provide the last time someone was shot for trespassing on a military facility in the US. Trespassing is not terribly infrequent, and so I'm sure you can find some time where a person was shot.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
He should build a walled-in Toll Road. Then charge a fee to use it.

Maybe the feds should build him a toll road.

Trolley rides for $50.00.

While he is at it he should declare his property park land and rent cabins, and sell beer, ice, and firewood.

I am just joking.

And ICE should put up a field office to catch the foreign invaders as they leave his property.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
146
Heh, somewhat off topic and not intended to prove any point, but about 15 years ago or so, my Dad, then in his mid-80's, experienced engine trouble and had to put his single engine light plane down at an air force base in Florida.

He was quickly met by a squad full of armed MP's who escorted him to a room at the base for a very thorough de-briefing.

No big deal, no violence or threats, just a colorful story. For reference, my Dad was a WWll combat vet, a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
IMO the Rancher only had the right to force them off his property and if it was by gunpoint so be it. He had no right to detain them.

Fucking punk kicked a woman who was on the ground. Now that's a fucking Republican.

Fixed
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Thumbs up to Perk for keeping PatrANUS accountable. He did the same thing in Gadgets/Gear/Phones and ran away like a bitch.
 
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