random reboots after upgrading to x2 4200+ from a64 3400+

[vexingv]

i do have others, but they are 256 mb dimms of pc2100 and pretty old (being used in another system). the 2x1gb dimms i have now have worked fine over their lifetime (2 months for the crucial dimm and 10 months for the pqi dimm). i also find it hard for BOTH dimms to be faulty.

 

[vexingv]

well i stress test with orthos using a single PNY/micron pc2100 dimm. by the time i got back out from the shower. the system had already rebooted itself. it seriously can't be a memory issue after using 3 functional dimms.

 

[bryanW1995]

dude, it's your mobo. I'm telling you, many/most of those older s939 mobos weren't designed for x2, it's an afterthought. That's how I fried my k8n neo4 platinum. RMA the cpu, sell the 3400+, ram and mobo on fs/ft or ebay, and get a 2140/ip35e/ddr2 system. 67 for the 2140, 75 +- for ip35e, and 55 AR for 2x1 gb gskill 4-4-4-12 ddr2 800, that's about 200 and you'll probably get 100-125 for the old parts + rma on 4200+. Trust me, trying to get that ****ing s939 system to work will tear you up and you'll just end up spending more later. I know from experience.

 

[vexingv]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
dude, it's your mobo. I'm telling you, many/most of those older s939 mobos weren't designed for x2, it's an afterthought. That's how I fried my k8n neo4 platinum. RMA the cpu, sell the 3400+, ram and mobo on fs/ft or ebay, and get a 2140/ip35e/ddr2 system. 67 for the 2140, 75 +- for ip35e, and 55 AR for 2x1 gb gskill 4-4-4-12 ddr2 800, that's about 200 and you'll probably get 100-125 for the old parts + rma on 4200+. Trust me, trying to get that ****ing s939 system to work will tear you up and you'll just end up spending more later. I know from experience.

i'm getting stressed out myself. it's too late to get a refund on the x2 so rma will be the only option. i think i will RMA it and attempt one more time. if it doesn't work after that, i'll have to take the loss or try to sell it. at the moment, i don't have the time or money (don't want to deal with ebay or fs/t) to make a new build so i'll rough it out with what i have now (the only thing that has really been taxing my system lately, besides any new games, has been ota hdtv).

 

[Rhoxed]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
dude, it's your mobo. I'm telling you, many/most of those older s939 mobos weren't designed for x2, it's an afterthought. That's how I fried my k8n neo4 platinum. RMA the cpu, sell the 3400+, ram and mobo on fs/ft or ebay, and get a 2140/ip35e/ddr2 system. 67 for the 2140, 75 +- for ip35e, and 55 AR for 2x1 gb gskill 4-4-4-12 ddr2 800, that's about 200 and you'll probably get 100-125 for the old parts + rma on 4200+. Trust me, trying to get that ****ing s939 system to work will tear you up and you'll just end up spending more later. I know from experience.

im running a 3800 x2 on a MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum for over 1.5 yrs now 2.7ghz with 1.48V and have no problems at all, just a bitch of an undervolter really.

 

[Markfw]

I have an Opteron 170@2.5 on a NEO4 for 2 years no problems...

 

[bryanW1995]

hmmm, guess I was just lucky. Actually, I was very disappointed b/c I had never spent over $80 on a mobo but sprang for $125 or so on the platinum.

 

[vexingv]

as i mentioned in an earlier post, i saw several posts in hot deals over at FW last year for bundles at fry's that included the KN1 mobo with X2 cpus. i don't recall seeing any comments about errors or problems so this mobo probably is capable of running an x2. anyway, i just placed a RMA at newegg. i'll update once i get my replacement. thanks for all the help thus far.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: myocardia
Set your vcore manually in the BIOS to 1.35v, the minimum for any X2 @ stock speed. If it's still restarting, it's because of your psu, which seems to be undervolting your +12v rail by a fairly large amount.

Are you an idiot?

No, are you?

There are a bunch of X2s that run on less than 1.35V, and running CPUs at higher voltages than required is a fantastic way to wear them out early.

So, because a few people who own Skt. 939 X2's can undervolt them, you tell someone who's trying to find out why he's having problems with his new one to undervolt it, so he can find out why it's not stable?:laugh: Oh, and according to AMD, running any Skt. 939 X2 @ 1.35v is completely safe; about 90% of them actually require it.

 

[robmurphy]

Sounds to me like the CPU is getting to hot.

I have several machines with the X2 4600 processor. I do not have any of them crashing. The max temp on the X2 4600 is 60 C. If you are seeing 60 C it could be that the CPU is shutting down. Have you set speed fan to increase fan speed as the CPU gets hotter. If I use mine heavily the HSF starts making a racket but the CPU temp stays 51 - 55 C. I'm using the HSF that came with an athlon 3800 single core CPU. I just use speed fan to up the fan speed when needed.

Rob.

 

[Capitalizt]

My suggestion: RMA the CPU. When the replacement comes, leave it sealed and sell it on Ebay along with everything else in your except the new power supply.

Buy a Dell like this one:

C2D:

http://configure.us.dell.com/d...&l=en&oc=DDCWDA3&s=dhs

or this one:

Athlon X2 5000:

http://www.dell.com/content/to...?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

remove the monitor to knock $190 off the price. So now you have a brand new, perfectly stable computer with one year warranty.

Buy this card. It is equal in speed to a 7900GS, which is a huge upgrade for you:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...Cards-_-XFX-_-14150230

Pop it in your new system and enjoy DX10 games in all their glory

 

[robmurphy]

I've checked the AMD site, and I was not quite correct the max temp for my CPU is 65 C and for your's 71 C as you correctly stated.

My machines are HP and use the stock memory, PSU (300W), and graphics cards. THe HSF used in each case is the one that was on the originaly fitted CPU (S939 Athlons 3200 and 3800+)

I definetly think your problem is heat though. My CPU have a TDP of 110W. They are running using a heatsink intended for 89W. My cpu temps are less than your's under load, yet you have a much better heatsink and a lower power CPU.

You need to check that the fan on the artic pro is running correcly and if it has speed control check that is working. Make sure you have the AMD cool'n'quiet installed and working. Also make sure that you have AMD's driver for the CPU. AMD has several utilities you can download which will show the CPU speeding up and slowing down. It will also show the core voltage being raised/lowered according to load. Check the ventalation on your case. If the case temp is high then the artic pro will not be able to cool the CPU.

With the artic pro you should not be getting above 50 - 55 C under full load, if you are there is something wrong with the CPU or system cooling.

Rob

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: vexingv
as i mentioned in an earlier post, i saw several posts in hot deals over at FW last year for bundles at fry's that included the KN1 mobo with X2 cpus. i don't recall seeing any comments about errors or problems so this mobo probably is capable of running an x2. anyway, i just placed a RMA at newegg. i'll update once i get my replacement. thanks for all the help thus far.

The reason you are rebooting is that you don't have the O/S Set to BSOD and then can further Diagnose....

Control panel/System/Advanced/Startup and Recovery/settings/System Failure.... Un-Check Automatically Re-Start... Apply and confirm your way out... that wil force a BSOD and then you have something to go on with the crash dump.

Bring that info back and Dclive has a site that can help....

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: myocardia
Set your vcore manually in the BIOS to 1.35v, the minimum for any X2 @ stock speed. If it's still restarting, it's because of your psu, which seems to be undervolting your +12v rail by a fairly large amount.

Are you an idiot?

No, are you?

There are a bunch of X2s that run on less than 1.35V, and running CPUs at higher voltages than required is a fantastic way to wear them out early.

So, because a few people who own Skt. 939 X2's can undervolt them, you tell someone who's trying to find out why he's having problems with his new one to undervolt it, so he can find out why it's not stable?:laugh: Oh, and according to AMD, running any Skt. 939 X2 @ 1.35v is completely safe; about 90% of them actually require it.

Please show me where AMD says that. All I can find are docs that say some require 1.3 and some require 1.35, not that all are safe on 1.35.

vexingv, do you have XP's "reboot-on-BSOD" feature turned off? edit: Looks like mr fox already suggested checking that.

 

[bryanW1995]

ahhhh, bsod, our friend. I thought you had gone forever...

 

[xylem]

It might be worth your time to try a clean OS install, considering all the other things you've tried. I remember having a strange 'slowdown' issue when i switched to an Opteron 165 from a single core 939 chip, *after* i installed the dual core patch.

 

[GeezerMan]

What's with this name calling? No need for calling people idiots. AMD says the voltage for 939 4200+ X2 is 1.3 - 1.35


AMD Link

 

[vexingv]

for those who are just coming into this thread...i have tried all of the above such as:
-new xp installation w/ amd dual core optimizer, amd xp drivers, and quite n' cool application
-i do have the option to automatically restart during error checked off; therefore there are no BSOD, which suggests that it is not driver/software related.
-from the arctic cooling site, the freezer pro's fan is rated from 900-2200 RPMs. in all the speedfan readings, the fan is putting out 2300+ RPMs, so the fan is spinning properly.

this cpu was on sale at newegg and i thought it would be a nice, cheap, upgrade that would hold me over for awhile. my system does what i need it to do (aside from pulling too much cpu% during HDTV stuff, which i only recently added in august). while i would love a get a new system, i have neither the time nor money for it. right now, i'm about to packup the cpu to have it shipped back for rma. if it doesn't work after that, check around on FS/T for a like new x2 4200+

 

[bryanW1995]

I had major problems with a freezer 64 when I went from fx55 to opteron 180. I ended up rma'ing the freezer and using my old zalman 9700 led on the opteron. It runs great, very cool.

 

[robmurphy]

If the CPU temp with the 3400 is low after you refit it the problem must have been a dodgy CPU. Sounds like it was consuming much much more than the stated 89W. Maybe it had some internal short or something similar.

As I said I'm running 4600+ (110W TDP) on the old 3200/3800 CPU heatsinks and using speedfan I keep max CPU temp to 50 - 55 C, so your 4200 should have been below 50 C.

Hope it all works out OK.

Rob.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
What's with this name calling? No need for calling people idiots. AMD says the voltage for 939 4200+ X2 is 1.3 - 1.35


AMD Link

As far as I can tell, that means some of the CPUs require up to 1.35V, while some of them require up to 1.3V. If you actually check the powernow / cool'n'quiet supported states, you can look up what your specific CPU requires. For example, my system reports:

powernow-k8: Found 2 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ processors (version 2.00.00)
powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xf (2300 MHz), vid 0xa
powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0xb
powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0xd
powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xf
powernow-k8: 4 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12

...and IIRC, the max VID of 0xa corresponds to 1.3V. A motherboard/BIOS/OS that follows all the documentation I could find would never apply 1.35V to my CPU unless the user forces it.

I think suggesting someone overvolt a CPU without understanding what's going on warrants name-calling.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
What's with this name calling? No need for calling people idiots. AMD says the voltage for 939 4200+ X2 is 1.3 - 1.35


AMD Link

As far as I can tell, that means some of the CPUs require up to 1.35V, while some of them require up to 1.3V. If you actually check the powernow / cool'n'quiet supported states, you can look up what your specific CPU requires. For example, my system reports:

powernow-k8: Found 2 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ processors (version 2.00.00)
powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xf (2300 MHz), vid 0xa
powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0xb
powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0xd
powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xf
powernow-k8: 4 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12

...and IIRC, the max VID of 0xa corresponds to 1.3V. A motherboard/BIOS/OS that follows all the documentation I could find would never apply 1.35V to my CPU unless the user forces it.

So, using all of the data available to you, you've finally figured out that your cpu is an AM2 4400? Congratulations, you're every bit as smart as I thought you probably were. The OP doesn't have an AM2 processor, though, he has a Skt. 939 4200, which you don't seem to know very much about.

I think suggesting someone undervolt a CPU without understanding what's going on warrants name-calling.

I agree, but I'll refrain.:laugh:

 

[Rhoxed]

my proc BSOD's when it hits 61C but i have a zalman 9700NT and it keeps proc at 54C max load prime95 at 2.7ghz over the stock 2ghz, at stock it wont touch 48C so your temps def. dont seem right. hopefully the RMA'ed chip will yield better results.

 

[GeezerMan]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
What's with this name calling? No need for calling people idiots. AMD says the voltage for 939 4200+ X2 is 1.3 - 1.35


AMD Link

As far as I can tell, that means some of the CPUs require up to 1.35V, while some of them require up to 1.3V. If you actually check the powernow / cool'n'quiet supported states, you can look up what your specific CPU requires. For example, my system reports:

powernow-k8: Found 2 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ processors (version 2.00.00)
powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xf (2300 MHz), vid 0xa
powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0xb
powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0xd
powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xf
powernow-k8: 4 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12

...and IIRC, the max VID of 0xa corresponds to 1.3V. A motherboard/BIOS/OS that follows all the documentation I could find would never apply 1.35V to my CPU unless the user forces it.

So, using all of the data available to you, you've finally figured out that your cpu is an AM2 4400? Congratulations, you're every bit as smart as I thought you probably were. The OP doesn't have an AM2 processor, though, he has a Skt. 939 4200, which you don't seem to know very much about.

I think suggesting someone undervolt a CPU without understanding what's going on warrants name-calling.

I agree, but I'll refrain.:laugh:

I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced a failure of a 939 Toledo core that was caused by a setting of 1.35 volts. Even if all of them were supposed to be set to 1.30 volts, AMD would have to allow for some variance in motherboard voltages, and that's one reason why a suggestion of a setting of 1.35 was made.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced a failure of a 939 Toledo core that was caused by a setting of 1.35 volts.

Good luck finding even one.

Even if all of them were supposed to be set to 1.30 volts, AMD would have to allow for some variance in motherboard voltages, and that's one reason why a suggestion of a setting of 1.35 was made.

Correct, nearly all Skt. 939 motherboards vdrop (undervolt) by ~.025v. So, with that in mind, setting the BIOS to 1.35v is only going to supply the processor with 1.325v. And although the majority of Skt. 939 X2 chips will POST at 1.325v, not all of them are completely stable at that vcore. I actually used to own one that required a vcore setting of 1.375v, because the motherboard vdropped by .025v, and it wasn't stable at 1.325v.