Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Hulk]

Intel needs to quickly rethink Alder Lake pricing. See the example below. 13700K is less expensive and better in every way than the 12900K.

Micro Center - Computers, Electronics, Computer Parts, Networking, Gaming, Software, and more!

www.microcenter.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's the main reason I think why Zen 4 isn't selling well at the moment, because many people would rather wait for the 3D cache versions.

That may not be the only reason. Economics and all that. Raptor Lake will likely have problems of its own.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's enough to make me want to just quit gaming period!!

Blame Crysis?

 

[igor_kavinski]

As for DDR5, I want the ultra fast kits that can do at least 6.8ghz and I haven't seen any online anywhere. 7ghz and above kits should be available by the end of the month though.

Do you have someone in the family who could use a better PC? Get 13600K with the cheapest DDR5-6400 kit you can find at launch and enjoy it for a while until all the components you really want are available easily and at better prices. Then hand down the 13600K PC. That is, if you haven't fallen in love with it.

 

[positivedoppler]

When you see Intel being this "Honest" You know there will be trouble
View attachment 69418

just 3 years ago prior to 5950x release, Intel act like AMD didn't exist when presenting performance numbers

 

[nicalandia]

Wrong Thread.!

 

[Markfw]

3090 Ti isn't good enough for 4K gaming with RTX maxed out, and the 7950x has issues with core scheduling due to very high core count and two CCDs. This problem isn't unique to AMD as it also affects Intel with their efficiency cores (that's why they have a hardware thread director) and even having SMT enabled can degrade performance in some games. The vast majority of game engines scale to just 6 threads, while a few can do 8 threads and the rare few like IdTech 7 can even go beyond that. But if I were going the Zen 4 route, I would have to wait till the 3D cache versions become available as they will be superior for gaming.

That's the main reason I think why Zen 4 isn't selling well at the moment, because many people would rather wait for the 3D cache versions.

As for DDR5, I want the ultra fast kits that can do at least 6.8ghz and I haven't seen any online anywhere. 7ghz and above kits should be available by the end of the month though.

Any 7950x core scheduling are in win 11. Not touching that. Linux is my primary. I just run win 10 to use some tools, then reboot linux. As for memory, I have not seen anything compelling for AMD past 6000 cl30. I have 6600, its not expo, and does not even run that good.

 

[nicalandia]

just 3 years ago prior to 5950x release, Intel act like AMD didn't exist when presenting performance numbers

Which is strange. Since The 3950X was matching and many times exceeding the 16 core Skylake-X even at games(due to the mesh interconnect latency )

 

[igor_kavinski]

With the Zen 3 sales going as well as they are, Intel is hoping that their "honesty" may get some itching Zen 3 owners to switch to Intel, instead of Zen 4. But if they were being really honest, they would also point out how their 32 threads aren't the same as Zen 4 or even Zen 3's 32 threads.

If I were in Intel marketing, this would be my spiel:

So what if AMD has 16 high performance cores? Did you know that hyperthreading can sometimes REDUCE performance in sensitive applications??? Guess what? OUR E-cores don't DO hyperthreading at all!

And AMD CPUs only consume max 230W. It's a hard limit set by AMD. Why would they do that? Because it might burn over that limit? Our CPUs have no such limit! You can set the limit to 4096W and you can sleep peacefully knowing that our CPUs will keep you warm and cozy at night!

So what if AMD has AVX-512? Show me a game that needs AVX-512! It's an enterprise feature that we introduced so programmers on a budget could learn to code in it but now we feel there are enough experienced AVX-512 programmers out there who can buy our Xeons comfortably without messing up their budget. If there is still someone who wants to code with AVX-512 on a budget, our Rocket Lake desktops and laptops are easily and widely available. By the way, there is no AVX-512 in AMD laptops so forget about doing your AVX-512 coding when you are on vacation!

We have the only CPUs breaking the 6 GHz barrier. Our CPUs can even run DDR5-7000+ without breaking a sweat! AMD is good, we don't contest that. But are they the best in gaming? The benchmarks speak for themselves! Have you seen how well we do in the game Riftbreaker? That's the future! And when our groundbreaking Battlemage cards hit the market, they will offer stunning performance by being paired with our CPUs because of our unique hardware and software synergy!

Here's the deal: if your budget won't let you get the very best, go with AMD. We understand that not everyone can afford the best. But for those who want no compromise performance, stability and being part of the largest gaming community in the world, Intel is the way to go. Because who would you trust? The company that started the PC revolution? Or the company that gives the good CPU dies to enterprise customers and lets gamers have the remaining scraps? You decide! With Intel, you don't know the meaning of the word regret!

 

[Kocicak]

Ok, I just broke 2400 Cinebench R23 Single thread barrier! Two best cores ran at 6200 MHz and the other at 6000 MHz. Voltage was fixed at 1.45V. I changed nothing else. The 2407 result is from unmonitored run.

I believe that this CPU should be solid stable at 60x on the best cores and 58x or 59x all the other. I am quite happy that this works, I was worried that these kind of CPUs will be skimmed out to make the KS models out of them.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Two best cores ran at 6200 MHz and the other at 6000 MHz.

How far can you overclock the E-cores using Intel Extreme Tuning?

 

[nicalandia]

The 13900K Linux Benchmarks have been taken down(I guess under Threat by Intel), but I was able to get a screenshot of the Geometric mean of all tests results.

 

[Kocicak]

How far can you overclock the E-cores using Intel Extreme Tuning?

I dont know, I doubt there is any point in doing that, because at the multithread end of the performance you are limited by heat and not lack of frequency. All I could do is to increase the frequency of P cores from 55x to 57x and only with lowering voltage.

I believe that the most interesting is the other end, that is why I test 2,4, and 8 thread performance.

 

[Markfw]

I dont know, I doubt there is any point in doing that, because at the multithread end of the performance you are limited by heat and not lack of frequency.

Or by too much power or both.In this day and age, I will take 32 cores@5.7 ghz anyday over one at 7 ghz.

 

[igor_kavinski]

at the multithread end of the performance you are limited by heat and not lack of frequency.

I'm curious if the process refinements that are helping the P-cores reach 6 GHz relatively easily are also beneficial for the all core boost of E-cores. Maybe they can all run at 4.5 GHz?

 

[Carfax83]

Do you have someone in the family who could use a better PC? Get 13600K with the cheapest DDR5-6400 kit you can find at launch and enjoy it for a while until all the components you really want are available easily and at better prices. Then hand down the 13600K PC. That is, if you haven't fallen in love with it.

I do have a nephew that loves PC gaming (too damn much of you ask me) but I've already cornered myself because I ordered a Samsung Neo 8 4K 240Hz monitor, which means I will need an RTX 4090 or Radeon 7900 XT class card to drive it, and to drive the GPU you need a fast CPU like the 13900K.

I haven't upgraded in so long that I'm willing to spend a considerable amount of money on my new rig, but I'm not willing to get raped by Nvidia's inflated prices!

I hope that the Radeon 7900XT is an absolute beast because we need the competition.

 

[Kocicak]

Maybe they can, but the E cores are not better in anything than P cores. They just provide the multithread grunt, when it is needed.

 

[nicalandia]

Maybe they can, but the E cores are not better in anything than P cores. They just provide the multithread grunt, when it is needed.

Have you try to disable them? That will give you more room for faster ST Speeds

 

[Hulk]

Ok, I just broke 2400 Cinebench R23 Single thread barrier! Two best cores ran at 6200 MHz and the other at 6000 MHz. Voltage was fixed at 1.45V. I changed nothing else. The 2407 result is from unmonitored run.

I believe that this CPU should be solid stable at 60x on the best cores and 58x or 59x all the other. I am quite happy that this works, I was worried that these kind of CPUs will be skimmed out to make the KS models out of them.

View attachment 69432

View attachment 69433

Wow! That is impressive! Any chance you can run our Handbrake bench again at these higher clocks?

 

[Kocicak]

Wow! That is impressive! Any chance you can run our Handbrake bench again at these higher clocks?

That reminds me that I need to delete the last test, because it is screwed up due to thermal throttling...

 

[poke01]

Sometimes I ask myself, when did PC gaming/hardware enthusiasm become so popular? I can remember times in the past where buying new hardware was so easy, especially if it was high end hardware that was usually out of reach for many people.

But now, RTX 4090 is out of stock everywhere except on eBay where the average selling price is a thousand above MSRP, and to top it off, even the 13900KF and the God damned motherboard I'm interested in is sold out of preorders.. Fricking memory as well!!

It's enough to make me want to just quit gaming period!!

I like PC hardware and like to tinker with it but I do 90% of my gaming on Xbox. Just turn the console on and enjoy. The Xbox Series X is easy to get now on MS's store and now consoles come with SSD's that was the only thing stopping me from getting a PS4/Xbox One. I know fps won't be as high but its good for the price.

Sometimes we forget that games are for entertainment but lately IMO there's been too much focus on getting the latest hardware and benchmarks.
Enjoy what you have. In the 90s, 2000s we just played games for fun, nowadays it's screeching.


P.S Back then the internet online shopping was not popular thats why we could easy access to parts and no "supply chain issues"...

 

[igor_kavinski]

I will need an RTX 4090 or Radeon 7900 XT class card to drive it, and to drive the GPU you need a fast CPU like the 13900K.

Not sure if a CPU bottleneck exists at 4K. Seen any such indication in benchmarks anywhere?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The 13900K Linux Benchmarks have been taken down(I guess under Threat by Intel), but I was able to get a screenshot of the Geometric mean of all tests results.

Interesting results. I wouldn't have expected that to wind up the way that it did. AVX512 must be making a difference in there somewhere. Pity Intel would be that petty but what can you do?

 

[sze5003]

Not sure if a CPU bottleneck exists at 4K. Seen any such indication in benchmarks anywhere?

Here's a guy running a 4090 was with a 9900k. Not much of a bottleneck in most games at 4k or at least not very significant depending on the titles if you have a somewhat decent CPU already.

 

[Falkentyne]

I'm curious if the process refinements that are helping the P-cores reach 6 GHz relatively easily are also beneficial for the all core boost of E-cores. Maybe they can all run at 4.5 GHz?

E cores can easily run at 4.5 ghz. You just need enough voltage to get them there.
P cores at x58 stable? Not happening unless you have a golden CPU on a good AIO, or a custom loop with an above average CPU. You are absolutely NOT doing x58 stable on any AIO without a chip with a P-core SP of 120 or higher (Loop Cinebench R23 for 30 minutes without a BSOD at x58 then you can call it stable enough for gaming, and Stockfish chess? Not a chance).

A custom loop with a chiller combined with a golden CPU can do x60 P cores stable.