Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[ondma]

Is it just me or am I the only one to prefer the 8x P-core + 4x e-core 12700 over the 6x P-core +8x e-core 13600.

For example I would highly recommend the Core i7 12700KF vs Core i5 13600KF.

Intuitively, I would agree with you. However, the data in the video doesn't back that up. The 13600k is faster in gaming than the 12700k. Sure, you could overclock the 12700k, but there is some overclocking headroom for the 13600k as well.

 

[Markfw]

Would depend on the workload I assume. For embarrassingly multithreaded workloads, the E cores would probably be better. However, the E cores dont seem to benefit gaming much. With new generations of gpus coming out, dont you think 8P cores will eventually be insufficient for high end gaming? What they really need is a smaller and more power efficient P core.

I agree with the bolded part. Dump the e-core spam, and add a lot more P-cores. Well, and make it efficient enough to stay under 200 watts.

 

[pakotlar]

Do you really believe Intel has anything to make a Threadripper with 96C/192C look silly? REALLY?

You are aware that they haven't even released a Sapphire Based HEDT right?

Threadripper is discontinued. Zen 3 Threadripper Pro is $4k for 32 cores, is not HEDT, but workstation, a different segment. There are no rumors of a 96 core Threadripper Pro either. Intel certainly had nothing to offer for 1 socket that competes with 96 core Genoa, but I’m talking about CPUs for mere mortals, not $10K+ server parts.

If AMD offered a Zen 4 32 core for $1500 or 64 core for $3000, I would be very happy. Unfortunately AMD appears to be focused on price gouging customers, and Intel is going for value, how times change.

 

[aigomorla]

Why don't you buy used EPYC ? I have a 24 core 7401 + motherboard for $550, or upgrade to 32 core 7601 for $200 more.

i want something with a boost clock of at least 5ghz if not more.
I also want PCI-E 5.0.

If AMD offered a Zen 4 32 core for $1500 or 64 core for $3000, I would be very happy. Unfortunately AMD appears to be focused on price gouging customers, and Intel is going for value, how times change.

This is exactly my situation.
Except there is Zen 4 Thread Ripper Pro 32 core costs more then 3000.

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-ThreadripperTM-PRO-5975WX-64-Thread/dp/B0B5VH1WPC

WRX80 boards are also no joke. Thats if you can even find a authorized retailer that will sell them:

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-WRX80E-SAGE-WIFI-Threadripper-workstation/dp/B0927N4Y5T/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3MOJX36539EY1&keywords=wrx80+motherboard&qid=1666477735&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjA4IiwicXNhIjoiMS4wMyIsInFzcCI6IjEuMzcifQ%3D%3D&s=electronics&sprefix=wrx80+motherboar%2Celectronics%2C125&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.4dd97f68-284f-40f5-a6f1-1e5b3de13370

And it does not have the boost clock id like nor the pci-e 5.0.

 

[AdamK47]

I agree with the bolded part. Dump the e-core spam, and add a lot more P-cores. Well, and make it efficient enough to stay under 200 watts.

Basically, make it a 7950X.

 

[Markfw]

Basically, make it a 7950X.

Well, this is a Raptor lake thread, and I started by agreeing with ondma. And I gave it up to 200 watts ,since I am using 142, and if it beats me at 200 watts I would consider it.

 

[pakotlar]

i want something with a boost clock of at least 5ghz if not more.
I also want PCI-E 5.0.



This is exactly my situation.
Except there is Zen 4 Thread Ripper Pro 32 core costs more then 3000.

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-ThreadripperTM-PRO-5975WX-64-Thread/dp/B0B5VH1WPC

WRX80 boards are also no joke. Thats if you can even find a authorized retailer that will sell them:

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-WRX80E-SAGE-WIFI-Threadripper-workstation/dp/B0927N4Y5T/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3MOJX36539EY1&keywords=wrx80+motherboard&qid=1666477735&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjA4IiwicXNhIjoiMS4wMyIsInFzcCI6IjEuMzcifQ%3D%3D&s=electronics&sprefix=wrx80+motherboar%2Celectronics%2C125&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.4dd97f68-284f-40f5-a6f1-1e5b3de13370

And it does not have the boost clock id like nor the pci-e 5.0.

Agreed, except thats a Zen 3 Threadripper Pro, not Zen 4. In any case that’s what I want, but I’m not willing to pay above Threadripper prices. Those were already high enough. If Intel can give me 32 Raptor Cove cores at a reasonable price with near 13900K single core performance, I’ll buy my first Intel part since the 920 Nehalem. 13900K is impressive at 253W and below, except I want AVX512/fast matrix multiply, so current e-cores are out.

 

[Hulk]

So no Reviewers have tested the IPC of the Raptormont Cores? They have faster ring and Twice Cache$ per cluster.

Edit.
Never Mind The Hentai Loving OneRaichu Did test that long ago.. Average is 6% IPC(at ISO Speed) over OG Gracemont Cores, which is rather impressive performance boost if you add the 10% speed boost the combined performance boost is 16% at stock.

View attachment 69668

These results correlate pretty well with my Raptor Cove> Golden Cove IPC of +4.7% and Raptor Gracemont>Alder Gracemont IPC of +5.3%. Nice improvement for simply increase L2 size and main memory subsytem speed.

 

[poke01]

I agree with the bolded part. Dump the e-core spam, and add a lot more P-cores. Well, and make it efficient enough to stay under 200 watts.

Intel's P cores are a lot bigger than AMDs. That's why they stop at 8.

 

[Markfw]

Intel's P cores are a lot bigger than AMDs. That's why they stop at 8.

Maybe but 1 for 1 they are almost equal in performance.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Intel's P cores are a lot bigger than AMDs. That's why they stop at 8.

Yeah which means they cannot add as many as AMD does. But they could add 2 more and sell that chip in addition to the e-core variants.

One of the Intel reps stated that only 6-8 P cores are the target market and they just add e-cores for multi threading and that their workstation and HEDT lines are for those who need more P-cores.

Well where is their workstation line?? It was supposed to have been out almost a year ago like now and pushed back to 2023 to who knows when??

And even that has a mesh arch and no ring so bad latency for gaming. Yes games do not have any benefit from more than 8 cores yet, but still some do not want hybrid arch and want more than 8 P cores and also do gaming.

 

[aigomorla]

HEDT lines are for those who need more P-cores.

Intel hasn't offically said anything about HEDT.
They are dumping the entire HEDT brand i think and going full workstation, which is a total bummer.

Workstation CPU's are expensive, always have been.

I know i am sounding like a broken record playing a tiny violin, but i really hope HEDT does not die out, as i really need those PCI-E lanes which neither 13000 series or 7000 series can provide enough of for my usage.

 

[poke01]

Maybe but 1 for 1 they are almost equal in performance.

I always said AMD's core design was better. AMD and Apple have around the same size P cores. That is why AMD and Apple have P cores that are more than 8 ie 7950X and M1 Ultra.

Intel cannot do 16 P cores yet maybe when Arrow lake and later.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Is it just me or am I the only one to prefer the 8x P-core + 4x e-core 12700 over the 6x P-core +8x e-core 13600.

Yes, assuming the 13600 isn't actual Raptor Lake (which I don't think it is, but I'm too lazy to look it up).

 

[TheELF]

Except it's not really 253W is it?
Particularly in the reviews that tested on Z790s, the socket load power is more like ~300W. As many outlets have mentioned, the default is basically unlocked usually. Intel managed to destroy both their own meaning of Tau boosting and PL2 values within 1 year. After a long history of both Intel and it's partners already playing a very loose defintions game of what stock is, with stuff like MCE and infinite boost periods.

Unless someone wants to tell me both 13700K/F and 13900K/F consume exactly the same amount of power at "stock" load cause of 253W PL2 with a straight face lol

Intel clearly states the maximum numbers for their CPUs.
If you watch or read reviews that get 300W and don't make it very very clear that they are voiding the CPU warranty then why are you even watching them or giving them any credit?! You are following reviewers that are full on clickbaiting by using a specific mobo so that they can photoshop flames and deserts into their youtube screenshots...


And also as I showed before 1 out of 10 is NOT THE DEFAULT.

 

[coercitiv]

PSA: Some Intel BIOS updates are nasty, bricking the NVME slot attached to the CPU.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1583812650537930752

CAUTION: Gigabyte has released BIOS version F3a for its motherboards with Z790 chipset. I did the update for the Z790 AORUS Elite AX and now the same phenomenon as on the ROG Z690 Hero from ASUS. The NVMe SSD in the M.2 slot attached to the CPU no longer works.

You have to put it in a slot that is attached to the chipset to get it to work again. M2_1 seams to be dead. My guess is that Gigabyte is distributing the same version of the ME here as ASUS did and which is causing the problems.

 

[coercitiv]

And also as I showed before 1 out of 10 is NOT THE DEFAULT.

You mean 3 out of 10: the MSI board has no power limit, the Asus board has a 200W limit and the cheap Asrock board is running the CPU bellow spec @ 65W because it's that weak. If anything this B660 lineup shows mobo makers don't care about Intel specs, they push the power limits as high as the VRM stage allows them to.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Intel clearly states the maximum numbers for their CPUs.

And nobody enforces it.

 

[Accord99]

I always said AMD's core design was better. AMD and Apple have around the same size P cores. That is why AMD and Apple have P cores that are more than 8 ie 7950X and M1 Ultra.

AMD and Apple have more than 8 P-processors using a MCM approach, which Intel has so far not wanted or unable to do so for the consumer market. To use the old AMD term, neither has a CCX with more than 8 P-processors.

 

[poke01]

AMD and Apple have more than 8 P-processors using a MCM approach, which Intel has so far not wanted or unable to do so for the consumer market. To use the old AMD term, neither has a CCX with more than 8 P-processors.

MCM / chiplets is coming to Intel in the form of MTL/Meteor Lake next year and still the P core is limited to 8.

But Intel 'tiles' are for a different purpose.

 

[rodrigorras]

The 13900K Linux Benchmarks have been taken down(I guess under Threat by Intel), but I was able to get a screenshot of the Geometric mean of all tests results.

View attachment 69437

This is Intel

 

[poke01]

This is Intel

What? that site published the results before the embargo. Any company will do the same if they want too.

Also Intel is not against open source ethos.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Personally I prefer to have the extra 2 P-cores

Is there a workload where that works better?

Benchmarks favor the 13600k over the 12700K. You are also getting tweaked performance cores with more L2, in 13th Gen K parts.

 

[nicalandia]

No Linux Benchmarks Yet for the 13900K? Or any other Raptor Lake? Come on Guys with Raptor Lake, head to OpenBenchmarking.org and start benching..! The blocked results have not been unblocked yet even after NDA was lifted after a few day..

So far this is the Only Bench found that is also shared with the other CPUs.

AMD Ryzen 7900 Series Linux CPU Benchmarks, I912900kvsi913900, Result Performance Comparison - OpenBenchmarking.org

openbenchmarking.org

That 7900X is Beastly

 

[TheELF]

You mean 3 out of 10: the MSI board has no power limit, the Asus board has a 200W limit and the cheap Asrock board is running the CPU bellow spec @ 65W because it's that weak. If anything this B660 lineup shows mobo makers don't care about Intel specs, they push the power limits as high as the VRM stage allows them to.

Exactly, only one of them has a default of power limits lifted which kaluan claimed is the default.
The rest stick with below even the allowed maximum of 241W for the 12th gen.

If anything this B660 lineup shows mobo makers don't care about Intel specs, they push the power limits as high as the VRM stage allows them to.

Yup, which is what I said before, if you buy a Z board then what is your reason of doing so if not to get the most out of your CPU? If you want lower power without having to do it yourself then get a more sensible mobo.

And nobody enforces it.

Everybody enforces that, you are just used to reviewers clickbaiting you without you even noticing.
I'm pretty sure every review that you have seen with the 13900k using ~300W they at least said or written the words "limits" and "lifted" and the reason they say these words is because they very well know that they are using a board that is voiding your warranty and saying these words is their insurance against claims against them.
"Well can't blame us, we told you that it uses lifted limits"