Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[DrMrLordX]

My new 65W; Raptor Lake Core i5-13400 with 2- 16DDR5 16GB RAM, 1TB NvMe DDR4 and cheapo motherboard! Fine addition to my needs of internet surfing, email and streaming content from paid channels.

The 13400 isn't actually Raptor Lake. It's just Alder Lake at a better price point.

 

[nicalandia]

Raptor Lake 13100 vs Alder Lake 12100

Z690 Steel Legend WiFi 6E/D5 vs Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Z690 UD - Geekbench

 

[dullard]

Raptor Lake 13100 vs Alder Lake 12100

Z690 Steel Legend WiFi 6E/D5 vs Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Z690 UD - Geekbench

Since you keep posting these types of posts, do you mind telling us how you select the products to compare? Geekbench is all over the place on scores since it isn't constrained to any particular configuration. For example, for the 12100 with Z690 motherboard, you selected the circled benchmark below. Why choose that one in particular as the comparison?

 

[nicalandia]

Since you keep posting these types of posts, do you mind telling us how you select the products to compare?

Same RAM(DDR5 vs DDR5 and amount), similar clocks

 

[dullard]

DDR5 vs DDR5 and similar clocks

View attachment 73638

The 12100 had faster than stock memory.

 

[nicalandia]

The 12100 had faster than stock memory and did significantly better on one test: the memory test.

They are the same chip, I tried to select same RAM Type(Capacity and DDR5), Similar clocks. They are the same Alder Lake Quad Core(L2$). Why is so strange that they would perform about the same?

 

[dullard]

They are the same chip, I tried to select same RAM Type(Capacity and DDR5), Similar clocks. They are the same Alder Lake Quad Core(L2$). Why is so strange that they would perform about the same?

They should perform about the same. But, I'm just curious about the methodology here. This benchmark meets your criteria and uses stock memory speeds for the 12100:

Z690 Steel Legend WiFi 6E/D5 vs Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D25 - Geekbench

 

[nicalandia]

This benchmark meets your criteria and uses stock memory speeds for the 12100:

Z690 Steel Legend WiFi 6E/D5 vs Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D25 - Geekbench

Yes, that's a much better comparison, Thanks.!

 

[dullard]

Yes, that's a much better comparison, Thanks.!

The 13100 has a 3% clock speed difference, a small memory speed increase, and (if the rumors are true) a small PL2 power increase. Although that higher power level probably won't be hit much for an i3 part. So a 3% single core increase and somewhat over 3% in multithreaded speed (more on the few tests that push the power limits) is what we should expect.

 

[Carfax83]

How did you check your SP rating? I assume you have one of those mobo that can check it?

Yeah it's in the UEFI under A.I tweaker. I think you need to have an ROG spec motherboard to see it I think.

 

[Dave3000]

Does the 13700K and 13900K when running Prime 95 V30.3 AVX2 and OCCT's Linepack 2021 test throttle lower than their typical all-core clocks? My Ryzen 5800x throttles down to around 4.1GHz during Prime 95 V30.3 and OCCT's Linepack 2021 test but in games it's around 4.5-4.7GHz, and in Cinebench R20 it's around 4.5GHz.

 

[Hulk]

Does the 13700K and 13900K when running Prime 95 V30.3 AVX2 and OCCT's Linepack 2021 test throttle lower than their typical all-core clocks? My Ryzen 5800x throttles down to around 4.1GHz during Prime 95 V30.3 and OCCT's Linepack 2021 test but in games it's around 4.5-4.7GHz, and in Cinebench R20 it's around 4.5GHz.

Are you thermally throttling or is it downclocking for some other reason?

I'll try and remember to check this on my 13900K tomorrow.

 

[Dave3000]

Are you thermally throttling or is it downclocking for some other reason?

I'll try and remember to check this on my 13900K tomorrow.

I'm sure it's not thermal throttling because it's hitting 85C in Prime 95 v30.3 in the small FFT test and running at around 4.1GHz. However, it's hitting the TDC limit as shown in HWInfo64 during that time. In Cinebench R20 it's hits 90C but it runs at around 4.5GHz during the multicore run. So I think it's something else than hitting the thermal threshold limit of the CPU that is causing it to throttle more than in Cinebench R20 but yet running cooler than in Cinebench R20. 90C is the thermal throttle threshold for the 5800X.

 

[coercitiv]

However, it's hitting the TDC limit as shown in HWInfo64 during that time.

If it's VR TDC then it's hitting the voltage regulator current limit.

 

[Dave3000]

Are you thermally throttling or is it downclocking for some other reason?

I'll try and remember to check this on my 13900K tomorrow.

Did you check yet on your 13900K?

 

[Dave3000]

If it's VR TDC then it's hitting the voltage regulator current limit.

It's the CPU TDC limit that is hitting 100%.

 

[zir_blazer]

The 13400 isn't actually Raptor Lake. It's just Alder Lake at a better price point.

Early leaks pointed out than 13400 would come in both Alder Lake AND Raptor Lake variants. Sort of like this generation 12400 that could use either the 6P+8E Alder Lake die or a heavily harvested 8P+8E one.

 

[lopri]

When I had my 13700K I tested it on two B660 boards, and one of the boards dropped the clock to 13700K's base clock (3.5 GHz) after a while of running Prime95 LargeFFT. The other one fared somewhat better, but it also dropped the clock speed by at least 500~600 MHz.

I hope reviews stop giving out information they have not verified themselves. From TPU's 13600K review;

AMD's new Zen 4 platform requires very expensive motherboards. Even the "cheapest" B650 chipset board costs well over $200, while Intel motherboards can be found for around $100. Sure, these might not be the latest and greatest Z790, but there won't be any big differences when opting for a cheaper B660 board, for example.

I doubt this dude ever tested a single B660 board. Especially $100 ones.

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU

Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

Early leaks pointed out than 13400 would come in both Alder Lake AND Raptor Lake variants. Sort of like this generation 12400 that could use either the 6P+8E Alder Lake die or a heavily harvested 8P+8E one.

Oh that's good and confusing; however, early leaks aside, I haven't heard of any 13400 with 2 MB l2 per core. They're all 1.25 ala Alder Lake.

 

[zir_blazer]

Oh that's good and confusing; however, early leaks aside, I haven't heard of any 13400 with 2 MB l2 per core. They're all 1.25 ala Alder Lake.

Check here, it mentions than 13400/13400F can come in either Raptor Lake B0 or Alder Lake C0 (8P + 8E) variants. Not sure if they will come with castrated Cache L2 or what. I'm expecting than sSpec will be different.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Check here, it mentions than 13400/13400F can come in either Raptor Lake B0 or Alder Lake C0 (8P + 8E) variants. Not sure if they will come with castrated Cache L2 or what. I'm expecting than sSpec will be different.

Guess we'll just have to look to people who buy these things for confirmation.

 

[Hulk]

Did you check yet on your 13900K?

Finally remembered to check this. I have PL1 set to 225 watts and PL2 at 250 watts for 20 seconds.
During the first 20 seconds I'm seeing the P's at 5.1 and the E's at 4.1. When it shifts down to 225 watts P's are at 4.9GHz and E's at 3.9GHz.

But wait, there's more...

After 5 or 6 minutes at 225W HWinfo shows the P's bouncing from 4.2 to 5.1 and averaging about 4.5 or so. The E's are averaging about 3.4.

Max temp is 78C so I'm pretty sure I could increase the wattage/clocks for this test. I'm thinking since the bench saturates the cores it heats them evenly thus avoiding hot spots and allowing for optimal thermal transfer. It has been my belief that I have not been thermally limited by my 280mm radiator but more by hot spots on the cpu.

Running for about 10 minutes now and max temp is still 78 so I think it's reached equilibrium.

I think this is a good test for seeing how much thermal energy your cooler can remove from the case.

Next time I restart the computer I'll set PL1 at 250W and see what temps and clocks are during a sustained run.

 

[Hulk]

Another interesting thing I'm noticing during this Prime95 run.
Notice the variation in average frequencies below, which appears to be based on the quality of the cores. Cores 0 and 1 are the ones that will hit 5.8 (favored cores) on my CPU and they are averaging the highest clocks during this run. Both the P's and E's seems to be arranged roughly with the better silicon having the lower core numbers.

 

[TheELF]

When I had my 13700K I tested it on two B660 boards, and one of the boards dropped the clock to 13700K's base clock (3.5 GHz) after a while of running Prime95 LargeFFT. The other one fared somewhat better, but it also dropped the clock speed by at least 500~600 MHz.

I hope reviews stop giving out information they have not verified themselves. From TPU's 13600K review;



I doubt this dude ever tested a single B660 board. Especially $100 ones.

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU

Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.

www.techpowerup.com

They do have numbers for 'stock' as well as 'limits removed' and in most cases the differences in performance are basically zero, so there is no real difference when getting a cheap board. The overall biggest difference is 3% avg for the whole of their apps run.

Losing 600Mhz in prime is irrelevant since prime doesn't give you any product, it has no performance number that can degrade, you just run it to determine how stable your system is.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Intel introduces 13th Gen Core Mobile HX/H/P/U series with up to Core i9-13980HX 24-core flagship CPU

I don't expect a significant performance gain unless It's the 24C Raptor Lake, the rest is similar to Alder Lake.