Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart (PC) im Benchmark-Test: Update mit Radeon-Raytracing

Ratchet & Clank: Benchmarks GPUs/CPUs

www.pcgameshardware.de

Raptor still thr gaming champion.. without cache spamming

In case you need to read up on how to do fair benchmarking: https://mytherin.github.io/papers/2018-dbtest.pdf

Benchmarks are often used as a way of comparing two systems,
or as a measure for how effective a newly proposed algorithm or
technique is. As a result, the general setup of experiments is to
compare the authors’ newly proposed system or algorithm against
an existing system, and show that the authors’ system performs
better than the current state of the art.
However, this experimental setup gives the author very little in-
centive to properly optimize the current system. The worse the state
of the art system does, the better the authors’ system looks. This
can be problematic, especially for certain systems that rely heavily
on proper configuration, as the performance of an improperly con-
figured system can be significantly worse than the performance of
a properly configured system.

Let me know if the bolded portion is giving you any comprehension difficulty. Or you can just come out and say that you have dyslexia and we'll leave it at that.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel Core i9-14900K 最高時脈可能只有 6.0GHz - BenchLife.info

可能不能達到 6.2GHz，但 6.0GHz 應該是最基本的。 Raptor Lake-S Refr […]

benchlife.info

Benchlife leaked the final specs. The only difference is 200 Mhz plus the i7 gets the 4 E cores.

14700K seems like the best choice for anyone upgrading from Alder Lake. Raptor Lake owners will probably not bother unless they have a good reason, like lower temps, better binned silicon etc.

 

[JoeRambo]

They used faster memory in the Intel rig. Every one of my boxes uses 6000 CL30 and many others can even do more. Rigged results. and not equal testing to what the rest of the websites have found.

It's not like DDR5 5600 and 5200 are not stock for AMD and Intel. They did test as manufacturers intended their CPUs to be used. I am fine with them providing such data point.
Would 6000C30 for AMD and 8000+ for Intel be interesting? For sure, but results would be the same in this game. This game seems to be outlier in multiple ways and one of the very few that does not benefit from X3D cache.

 

[LightningZ71]

Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart (PC) im Benchmark-Test: Update mit Radeon-Raytracing

Ratchet & Clank: Benchmarks GPUs/CPUs

www.pcgameshardware.de

Raptor still thr gaming champion.. without cache spamming

A quick glance and sort at the charts, combined with what we know about asset handling and scene loading, would seem to support the idea that, within a family, more physical cores seems to be the bigger performance determinant for R&C. The consoles have hardware to do inline decompression of assets pulled from the NVME drive. We don't seem to have information on the hard drive setup of the testing rig either, which could have a notable effect on the testing results. Also, DirectStorage doesn't seem to be implemented yet. As it could bypass the use of large numbers of physical cores that seem to be occupied with asset management work, it could make a notable change in the numbers as well.

I don't care who comes out on top in either direction on this, but I would like to see numbers after DS gets implemented, and to also know more about their storage solution on the testbed and how other setups might change things. I suspect that DS will change the results of the chart in a notable way as the extra cores go disused, and low core count processors are less occupied with asset handling on HT threads. It's also possible that asset and scene handling is polluting the larger caches in the processors that have more than 16MB of L3. Remember, the console target for the game has just 16 MB of L3 split in two chunks of 8MB. They have likely optimized the game engine for that target given how hard they are pushing things. From a technical side, I'm very interested in how these interactions work out.

 

[jpiniero]

Intel Core i7-14700K tested and compared to 13700K, up to 20.7% faster multi-core but needs 30 more watts - VideoCardz.com

Intel Core i7-14700K, the Raptor Lake Refresh CPU with more cores and higher clocks has been put to a test The Chinese tech reviewer “T小白” got a sneak peek at Intel’s upcoming desktop CPU, which they jokingly referred to as 13700KS, to avoid any unnecessary attention from the Chinese company...

videocardz.com

Another Chinese review of the 14700K. There appears to be no difference in gaming. Margin of error type stuff.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel Core i9-13900KS review: peak power | Club386

Hitting 6GHz ain't easy. Intel smashes the power and the benchmarks.

www.club386.com

13900KS peak power is 380W.

14700K peak power for all core overclocks is gonna go beyond 400W! And the 14900KS could be 500W!

 

[A///]

is not even a margin of error. it's ineffectual. Final bios chips will have a canceled out performance result, faster on paper and tests, but the power use makes the exra performance junk. if the 14700k is due o hit those wattages i concur with what igor here is saying about the 14900ks with the k not trailing far behind.

 

[deasd]

NDA, do not share!

MSI leaks Intel 14th Gen Core specs, confirms it's 3% faster on average than 13th Gen - VideoCardz.com

MSI unimpressed with 14th Gen Core series MSI made a mistake of sharing an unlisted video which has now leaked out. At the time of writing, the video was still available. Intel 14th Gen Core Series, Source: MSI This leak involves a product training video showing MSI’s latest Intel 700...

videocardz.com

Best comment from Videocardz:

Intel finally has a worthy successor to Kaby Lake.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What are the chances that the 14700K is just the 14900K die with 4 E-cores disabled?

 

[A///]

What are the chances that the 14700K is just the 14900K die with 4 E-cores disabled?

very possible at this point where yields would be much higher. intel used to do this in the past with even good cores because they had the finances to do this even if it was wasteful in hindsight. no one will know what's what until its imaged

 

[ondma]

Yea, they shouldn't have even brought the "refresh" out, especially since AMD has nothing new except the X3D chips until almost the time frame of ARL anyway. It just brings back bad memories of the bad old 14nm refreshes.

 

[Hulk]

What are the chances that the 14700K is just the 14900K die with 4 E-cores disabled?

100%

Raptor Refresh is a process refinement of Raptor. Intel could either bring out a like of 13950K, 13750K, etc... or call it 14th gen. They opted for the latter.

 

[igor_kavinski]

They opted for the latter.

Even in their times of trouble, they refuse to be humble and stick to doing what they are disliked for. One has to wonder why Pat would let this happen. If he really is calling the shots or if there are powerful people there just using him as a public puppet. Or maybe Pat isn't the sort of person I thought he was (honest person with integrity).

 

[igor_kavinski]

intel used to do this in the past with even good cores because they had the finances to do this even if it was wasteful in hindsight.

Yeah. I think I once read that they did this even for Celerons, rather than create a separate die for them.

 

[A///]

Yeah. I think I once read that they did this even for Celerons, rather than create a separate die for them.

Timespan?

 

[A///]

Yea, they shouldn't have even brought the "refresh" out, especially since AMD has nothing new except the X3D chips until almost the time frame of ARL anyway. It just brings back bad memories of the bad old 14nm refreshes.

It provides an average uplift of 3%. Possibly handling higher memory speeds outside jedec and maybe more oc headroom for watercooler geeks.

 

[A///]

Even in their times of trouble, they refuse to be humble and stick to doing what they are disliked for. One has to wonder why Pat would let this happen. If he really is calling the shots or if there are powerful people there just using him as a public puppet. Or maybe Pat isn't the sort of person I thought he was (honest person with integrity).

Pat likely wasn't the ceo who signed off on alderlake or raptor lake, the previous guy may have. Pat's sign offs will come later, but he had control over releasing a product that would be inferior on desktop such as mtl s or stick with a minor refresh. It's okay when AMD did it with their XT processors on Zen 2 which @DrMrLordX whined about for months but not cool when Intel does it?

The AMD xt processors were a joke of a refresh too.

 

[TheELF]

Even in their times of trouble, they refuse to be humble and stick to doing what they are disliked for. One has to wonder why Pat would let this happen. If he really is calling the shots or if there are powerful people there just using him as a public puppet. Or maybe Pat isn't the sort of person I thought he was (honest person with integrity).

AMD is back to below 20% market share in every market that intel is also in, selling the same gen again and making the same amount of money from it that they already did but with much lower expenses is the only smart thing to do.
Why release a newer arch if your market share and income is secured anyway? They will wait for that until the new ZEN CPUs are out so that they can match them with the least amount of material. And with zen5 sticking to the same mobos that won't be very difficult either, they have zero overhead for more power on that platform so no additional cores and only a small clock increase from going to a smaller node.
Lol, no company that is selling you anything is honest and with integrity.

AMD and Intel CPU Market Share Report: Recovery on the Horizon (Updated)

Hope is on the horizon, mostly.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Timespan?

During the P3 era.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The AMD xt processors were a joke of a refresh too.

But they were likely very low volume. I haven't seen anyone here sporting such a CPU.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why release a newer arch if your market share and income is secured anyway?

If it's the same arch, don't change the model name to indicate a new gen. They could have released the Refresh with model names like 13660K, 13770K and 13990K.

 

[eek2121]

But they were likely very low volume. I haven't seen anyone here sporting such a CPU.

You haven’t asked. My wife’s machine is rocking one.

 

[A///]

During the P3 era.

yep.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You haven’t asked. My wife’s machine is rocking one.

Your wife's not a member on this forum so...

 

[DrMrLordX]

@DrMrLordX whined about

Uh

The AMD xt processors were a joke of a refresh too.

Hypocrisy much?

And yes this 14000-series refresh CPUs won't be anything special except that they'll push Alder Lake out of more of the product stack.