Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Saylick]

Videocardz has some more screenshots. Dat power though... The intern must've been high to set that PL4 value.

Intel Core i9-13900K pre-production sample tested, 10% faster than Core i9-12900K in single-core tests - VideoCardz.com

Intel Core i9-13900K up to 10% faster than i9-12900K in single-core Intel Raptor Lake desktop processor has now been fully reviewed ahead of launch. This sample is obviously not the production unit that will go to market in Q4 this year, but a qualification sample, which is often considered near...

videocardz.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yikes! 420W PL4! 360mm liquid cooling mandatory.

 

[Markfw]

I will wait for recognized reviews before commenting, but this sure looks like using the power to beat Zen4 type situation. They did it with Alder lake, so it makes sense for them to do it with Raptor lake.

 

[inf64]

Just as expected. No IPC difference, ST clocks pushed to max. to compete with Zen4. It will be an interesting matchup, both in ST and MT.

 

[Saylick]

Yikes! 420W PL4! 360mm liquid cooling mandatory.

Not mandatory. It's apparently insufficient. The package temperature apparently spiked to 100C even with a 360mm AIO.

There is also a question of how much thermal efficiency is required from the CPU cooler. The 13900K tested in Intel’s own XTU tool reached 100°C peak temperature and began to throttle despite using 360 AIO cooler. Furthermore, the PL4 (package) power reportedly hit as high as 420W.

 

[igor_kavinski]

We need bigger radiators! I would love to watch Intel's keynote where they announce 13900K with a custom radiator created specifically for the Alienware PC sporting their new baby.

 

[FangBLade]

So about 10% better ST performance than Zen 4 in cinebench like benchmarks (we have yet to see games), and MT will be very similar, while consuming much much more power than Zen 4, and dead end platform (last generation), AMD won't have problems with that. Speaking of games, Zen 4-3d will easily beat this, and 3dcache versions are even more power efficient than original versions, + AM5 platform longevity as bigest advantage.

 

[Saylick]

We need bigger radiators! I would love to watch Intel's keynote where they announce 13900K with a custom radiator created specifically for the Alienware PC sporting their new baby.

Intel should include a Peltier cooler with every sale of the 13900K.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel should include a Peltier cooler with every sale of the 13900K.

Correct. Why should customers have to invest in hefty and expensive cooling solutions? It's THEIR fault that it runs so hot.

 

[pakotlar]

Videocardz has some more screenshots. Dat power though... The intern must've been high to set that PL4 value.

Intel Core i9-13900K pre-production sample tested, 10% faster than Core i9-12900K in single-core tests - VideoCardz.com

Intel Core i9-13900K up to 10% faster than i9-12900K in single-core Intel Raptor Lake desktop processor has now been fully reviewed ahead of launch. This sample is obviously not the production unit that will go to market in Q4 this year, but a qualification sample, which is often considered near...

videocardz.com

View attachment 64411

Yeah theres something a bit odd about that. Leaks may be wrong, but they have PL4 as 314W vs 353 in ADL. 420W is quite the jump, may be mobo sets PL4 to be uncapped. Their PL2 numbers looks about right, 280W. We’ll see what happens with stock production hardware.

Performance between 13900K and 7950X will probably be about even, with package power of ~280W vs ~230W under load. Transient spikes will be much higher on raptor lake, though hopefully not as bad as 420W. All in all a good step for Intel, but they’ll remain behind in efficiency. Mobile will hopefully be a bit better with DLVR, but AMD will improve too, so I don’t expect the overall picture will change there either compared to ADL mobile vs Zen 3+. Would love to be surprised, but meh so far, they’re treading water.

 

[Asterox]

Just as expected. No IPC difference, ST clocks pushed to max. to compete with Zen4. It will be an interesting matchup, both in ST and MT.

What else is left. Desktop is only kindergarden, compared to real problem for Intel with no real solution or competitive server/HPC CPU.

It can already be well estimated, what will Zen4 3D V-Cache CPU-s deliver in the real gaming FPS numbers.

 

[Det0x]

So about 10% better ST performance than Zen 4 in cinebench like benchmarks (we have yet to see games), and MT will be very similar, while consuming much much more power than Zen 4, and dead end platform (last generation), AMD won't have problems with that. Speaking of games, Zen 4-3d will easily beat this, and 3dcache versions are even more power efficient than original versions, + AM5 platform longevity as bigest advantage.

It actually seems like RaptorLake will be hard-pressed to even beat regular Zen3 v-cache in games, nevermind the Zen4 versions..

Could post more benchmarks, but they will pretty much all show the 5800x3d being from 0% to more than 10% faster in games compared to the 12900k(non s) depending on what games that are included..
A a soon-to-be not only theoretical 7950x3d would be in a different league compared to Intel 13gen in games

Writing have been on the wall for some time already

 

[FangBLade]

Yeah, even Zen 3d will beat RPL in many games that loves extra cache, what will Zen 4-3d do to RPL? Huh, can't wait to see.

 

[pakotlar]

Yeah, even Zen 3d will beat RPL in many games that loves extra cache, what will Zen 4-3d do to RPL? Huh, can't wait to see.

Doubt Zen 3D 5800x will beat raptor lake on average. It has trouble beating 12900KS, and 13900K gets 2x L2 cache. Hypothetical 7800X 3D will slay though, likely.

 

[pakotlar]

It actually seems like RaptorLake will be hard-pressed to even beat regular Zen3 v-cache in games, nevermind the Zen4 versions..
View attachment 64425
Could post more benchmarks, but they will pretty much all show the 5800x3d being from 0% to more than 10% faster in games compared to the 12900k(non s) depending on what games that are included..
A a soon-to-be not only theoretical 7950x3d would be in a different league compared to Intel 13gen in games

Writing have been on the wall for some time already

You’re delusional. Raptor Lake will be 15% faster on average, is my guess.

 

[Det0x]

You’re delusional. Unless the game is single threaded and hates cache, Raptor Lake will be 20% faster on average, is my guess.

Just so i can quote you, 20% faster on average than what ?

 

[Saylick]

Just so i can quote you, 20% faster on average than what ?

Lol, they edited their comment to back it down to 15%...

 

[coercitiv]

Lol, they edited their comment to back it down to 15%...

Wait until they realize Raptor Cove and Zen4 are likely to be within spitting distance in terms of ST performance. One way or the other, the rear view mirror will be nasty dirty.

 

[pakotlar]

Just so i can quote you, 20% faster on average than what ?

15% is my guess, see the edit. You’ll win Internet points.

When 12900K isn’t hampered by slow as hell DDR4, it’s is about 1% slower on average (6400mhz DDR5, which will not be top of line in 2023, comparing to CL16 DDR4 3800).

Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Core i9-12900K in 40 Games

A massive gaming benchmark comparison between the Ryzen 7 5800X3D and Core i9-12900K, pitting the two head to head across 40 games at 1080p, 1440p and 4K,...

www.techspot.com

 

[pakotlar]

Lol, they edited their comment to back it down to 15%...

Correct, a minute or so after I posted.

 

[FangBLade]

First 20%, now 15%, tomorrow will be below 8%.

 

[FangBLade]

And don't forget that Zen 4 will also have ddr5, so Intel RAM advantage will vanish, 3dcache + ddr5 + higher clocks = RPL will have hard times. And 3d versions because of massive cache can work at almost full performance with cheap ram, that will be even more important with Zen 4 because ddr5 is expensive, plus as i said AM5 longevity, it will sell like hotcake.

 

[coercitiv]

15% is my guess, see the edit. You’ll win Internet points.

15% higher gaming performance is what Alder Lake gained over Comet Lake, and that was with a massive jump in IPC and memory speed (from DDR4 to DDR5). If I were you would expect single digit gains over 12900KS in gaming, with high emphasis on using the best DDR5 kits available.

The one benchmark I see Raptor Lake wining by double digits is... value, because I expect Intel will once again be forced to offer the E cores for free, at least in the 13600K and 13700K. Nothing beats freE cores!

 

[pakotlar]

15% higher gaming performance is what Alder Lake gained over Comet Lake, and that was with a massive jump in IPC and memory speed (from DDR4 to DDR5). If I were you would expect single digit gains over 12900KS in gaming, with high emphasis on using the best DDR5 kits available.

The one benchmark I see Raptor Lake wining by double digits is... value, because I expect Intel will once again be forced to offer the E cores for free, at least in the 13600K and 13700K. Nothing beats freE cores!

I’m expecting single digit against 12900KS in games, yeah, on average. 15% vs 12900K. Some will benefit from the doubled L2 in Raptor Cove and Gracemont, and those will do well, the rest will get a small bump from clockspeed. We may see the odd game (Civ 6 say) that benefits from the larger number of cores as well, but I doubt many.

 

[FangBLade]

I’m expecting single digit against 12900KS in games, yeah, on average. 15% vs 12900K. Some will benefit from the doubled L2 in Raptor Cove and Gracemont, and those will do well, the rest will get a small bump from clockspeed. We may see the odd game (Civ 6 say) that benefits from the larger number of cores as well, but I doubt many.

They won't benefit from e cores, when p cores needs to access e cores there is latency regression + e cores are much different and weaker, if RPL have 8P+ cores then it would benefit.