Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[shady28]

Why not? The Platform CAN be flexible. PLX switches for PCIe busses have been in existence for over a decade. The very configuration of the various chipsets for both Intel and AMD processors are arbitrary decisions made in board rooms. There is no technical reason that a UEFI/chipset combination can not be released that allows Raptor Lake or AM5 to behave like a low-mid end HEDT machine. Just like cars and engines, the Chevy Small block has been through many generations and been used in many different vehicle platforms. It existed in various states of tune in Sedans, in modest coupes like the Camaro, and in high end sports cars like the Corvette in its various performance levels. The same smallblock in the Holden Comodore (AKA Pontiac G8/Chevrolet SS in the US market) gave a car with substantially different performance than a top end Corvette ZR1 of the same generation. Yes, both were/are sports cars, but, you're going to lap the Nurbegring a whole lot faster in the vette.

It's absurd to believe that the processor MUST be tied to only one platform, ever, especially when the platforms themselves are drastically different from the bottom end all the way to the top end. Look at Comet lake, the H410 to the W480 differed in DIMM count, total supported RAM (granting that's more of a bios limitation, but its still a difference), SATA ports, PCIe lanes provided, USB ports (speed and number), available display ports, integrated wireless support, Optane support, Audio feature support, VPRO support and even lithography technique. If I judged Comet lake as a product based on the H410 chipset, it would look like a MASSIVE regression from the previous generation though it provably wasn't. The only thing that a MODERN x86 processor from one of the two leading vendors is married to is the number of PCIe lanes it provides and the integrated SoC features. Both vendors provide many of their processor architectures on multiple different sockets, with AMD providing their APUs in desktop form and Mobile form and Intel doing similar for AlderLake.

I never said the processor must be tied to one platform. What are you going on about?

But platform is *part of the package*. That to me is both obvious and irrefutable.

You even refer to that in your comment about the H410. It is actually a great example of why the platform is critical to evaluating the CPU in real life.

 

[Zucker2k]

Intel has almost always tied its CPUs to specific chipsets so I believe @shady28 is mostly right.

 

[LightningZ71]

I think that we are talking past each other. Intel could make a chipset that does what I suggest.

 

[shady28]

Latest. 13900K shows up with the #1 score, by a wide margin, for rigs using 6900XT in AOTS.

Edit: I should point out, the article is talking about at 4K. However, looking at the AOTS benchmark page, this screenshot is at 1080P.

Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU Up To 24% Faster Than 12900K, 43% Faster Than 5950X & 68% Faster Than 5800X3D In AOTS Benchmark

New benchmarks of Intel's Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake flagship CPU have leaked out within the Ashes of The Singularity benchmark.

wccftech.com

 

[pakotlar]

Latest. 13900K shows up with the #1 score, by a wide margin, for rigs using 6900XT in AOTS.

Edit: I should point out, the article is talking about at 4K. However, looking at the AOTS benchmark page, this screenshot is at 1080P.

View attachment 65690

Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU Up To 24% Faster Than 12900K, 43% Faster Than 5950X & 68% Faster Than 5800X3D In AOTS Benchmark

New benchmarks of Intel's Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake flagship CPU have leaked out within the Ashes of The Singularity benchmark.

wccftech.com

Reminder that I bet 5 internet points on 13900K with non-potato DDR5 being 15% faster than 5800X 3D.

 

[coercitiv]

Reminder that I bet 5 internet points on 13900K with non-potato DDR5 being 15% faster than 5800X 3D.

Your submission was successful.

 

[Zucker2k]

Reminder that I bet 5 internet points on 13900K with non-potato DDR5 being 15% faster than 5800X 3D.

With which GPU?

 

[pakotlar]

With which GPU?

Not a potato (not gpu limited)

 

[Hans Gruber]

Reminder that I bet 5 internet points on 13900K with non-potato DDR5 being 15% faster than 5800X 3D.

Is a 360mm AIO the minimum water cooling solution for the 13900k? The biggest Noctua 140mm dual fan dual heatsink cooler the minimum to prevent throttling?

 

[shady28]

Is a 360mm AIO the minimum water cooling solution for the 13900k? The biggest Noctua 140mm dual fan dual heatsink cooler the minimum to prevent throttling?

I was tinkering with my 240mm and 10850K yesterday, to see how much power draw I could cool, because this came up earlier here and on twitter.

I can keep 220W average (PL1), 250W PL2 (burst), 28s Tau below 90C. It would level out around 88C. I have an top mounted Arctic Freezer II 240 AIO. I really can't go past this continuously on my setup as my VRMs will hit current/EDP limit ( IccMax, only 10+1+1 50A phases on this motherboard too). I could probably go to 250 / 250 PL1=PL2 and stay below 100C throttle if my VRMs could stand it, but I need this PC for a few more months.

From that I would guess a high quality 360mm AIO can keep up with 300W continuous PL1=PL2 without thermal throttle.

Just my opinion but I seriously doubt one could handle 350W.

Arctic does make a 420mm AIO. That might work.

I'm sure someone will do a power \ performance scaling article at some point.

 

[pakotlar]

Is a 360mm AIO the minimum water cooling solution for the 13900k? The biggest Noctua 140mm dual fan dual heatsink cooler the minimum to prevent throttling?

Eh, splitting potatos here. I think noctua NH-D15 or better, as long as its not inside Satan’s p schute.

 

[nicalandia]

Latest. 13900K shows up with the #1 score, by a wide margin, for rigs using 6900XT in AOTS.

Edit: I should point out, the article is talking about at 4K. However, looking at the AOTS benchmark page, this screenshot is at 1080P.

It's quite clear that AOTS does not benefit from Larger Cache, otherwise the 5800X3D would have been there. Zen4 should do quite nice on that benchmark

 

[maddie]

I now read with wonder that within a month, we have gone from Raptor Lake being a slight upgrade from Alder Lake, to a jump almost comparable to that of Zen1 from Bulldozer.

All I can say is WOW. Intel is back.

Read with wisdom.

 

[nicalandia]

I now read with wonder that within a month, we have gone from Raptor Lake being a slight upgrade from Alder Lake, to a jump almost comparable to that of Zen1 from Bulldozer.

All I can say is WOW. Intel is back.

Read with wisdom.

Are you Jesting? Raptor Lake is just an enhanced Alder Lake with Higher Speed and Higher MT due to the compound effect of 100% more e cores and higher speed. Whoever think it's even remotely close as a Bulldozer/Zen1 moment is just asinine.

 

[maddie]

Are you Jesting? Raptor Lake is just an enhanced Alder Lake with Higher Speed and Higher MT due to the compound effect of 100% more e cores and higher speed. Whoever think it's even remotely close as a Bulldozer/Zen1 moment is just asinine.

I am, but have you read some posts. 30-50 + % increase.

 

[Markfw]

I am, but have you read some posts. 30-50 + % increase.

Talk to me on review day. Not sure I believe those. Its alder lake with 4 more e-cores, and tweaking. Thats not 30-50%.

 

[nicalandia]

I am, but have you read some posts. 30-50 + % increase.

I see..

I will say this. Raptor Cove Core is shaping out to be the Best Core Intel have and will release for Enthusiast/High end in the next 2 years. Because The castrated core on Sapphire Rapids is shaping out to be just a big disappointment(If design choices are not changed Emerald Rapids will fair no better)

 

[pakotlar]

Are you Jesting? Raptor Lake is just an enhanced Alder Lake with Higher Speed and Higher MT due to the compound effect of 100% more e cores and higher speed. Whoever think it's even remotely close as a Bulldozer/Zen1 moment is just asinine.

Boooooo

 

[pakotlar]

Talk to me on review day. Not sure I believe those. Its alder lake with 4 more e-cores, and tweaking. Thats not 30-50%.

8 more

 

[Markfw]

8 more

edit. Never mind... its 8+16. But still that the equivalent of 16 P-cores vs Zen 4 16 cores. I still don't believe the 30-50% more.

Edit: so that the equivalent of 4 more p-cores or 25% more power than alderlake. That makes the 30% believable, but at 350 watt ?? vs Zen4 7950x at 170 ? And 50% ? no....

Again, I will wait for reviews for final judgement.

 

[pakotlar]

edit. Never mind... its 8+16. But still that the equivalent of 16 P-cores vs Zen 4 16 cores. I still don't believe the 30-50% more.

Edit: so that the equivalent of 4 more p-cores or 25% more power than alderlake. That makes the 30% believable, but at 350 watt ?? vs Zen4 7950x at 170 ? And 50% ? no....

Again, I will wait for reviews for final judgement.

Yeah it will be 30-50

 

[Schmide]

Well if you think about it, isn't each pair of ecores a stop on the ring mesh? So p = 2e in ringland meshland!

 

[pakotlar]

Well if you think about it, isn't each pair of ecores a stop on the ring mesh? So p = 2e in ringland meshland!

Yeah but if you consider that e cores matter and matter is mc^2, Raptor Lake must contain the power of the Sun, which is tough to cool. That concerns me. Better wait for reviews but Intel is [redacted].

Profanity is not allowed in the tech forums.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[DrMrLordX]

I now read with wonder that within a month, we have gone from Raptor Lake being a slight upgrade from Alder Lake, to a jump almost comparable to that of Zen1 from Bulldozer.

All I can say is WOW. Intel is back.

Read with wisdom.

Or some of the more-recent numbers are fudged. Or all the numbers are fudged. It's hard to say, but it's awfully fishy to me that we have some 13900k results matching the 12900ks (more or less) and then some others that far exceed it, in the same benchmark, in ST performance. Plus it's just GB5 so feh who cares about that garbage?

 

[ZGR]

Ashes is definitely an interesting benchmark. It seems to make use of e-cores which is pretty awesome. Here is a 12900kf from yesterday within spitting distance of the 13900k.



The last update for Ashes includes this changelog:

v3.1 Changelog

• Update Mesh optimization pass to reduce game load up time by 70%
• Camera angle adjusted to be less top-down and adjust as the player zooms in and out
• Max threads increased from 16 to 24 to increase performance as many machines now have more CPU cores
• Update the Oxide logo
• Adjusted rendering priorities so that larger units look substantially better when there are fewer units on the screen
• Artemis HP reduced from 575 to 480
• Version bumped to v3.10
• Updated Turtle Wars scenario for balance changes from 3.0
• Updated Entropy scenario for same reason
• Regenerated Nashira map

If the game engine supported more threads, the 13900k would actually scale really well over the 12900k here. If the bigger L2 cache helps Raptor Lake get better minimum FPS, then that would be awesome, but we have to wait for reviews.

Frametime analysis needs to make a comeback.