Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Exist50]

Yes but Is it the same full AVX512 unit as in original Sapphire Rapids?

Yes. Regardless of what they brand it, this is a server die, and should have the server feature set.

 

[nicalandia]

For anyone hoping that the CPU is released soon...

We got a glimpse at the HEDT SPR-SP build on Compute Tiles a year ago and here we are..

 

[Exist50]

For anyone hoping that the CPU is released soon...

We got a glimpse at the HEDT SPR-SP build on Compute Tiles a year ago and here we are..

View attachment 68350

Pretty much all the same bugs that affect the XCC die will also affect the MCC. But the corrolary is that when one is ready, so should the other. I doubt we'll see more than a quarter gap between them, if any gap at all.

 

[nicalandia]

Pretty much all the same bugs that affect the XCC die will also affect the MCC. But the corrolary is that when one is ready, so should the other. I doubt we'll see more than a quarter gap between them, if any gap at all.

Any particular reason for Intel going the Monolithic rout for a low core count CPU? That thing is pushing the reticle limit and i'ts not going to beat the Top of the line Xeon W9 3495X.

 

[coercitiv]

Pretty much all the same bugs that affect the XCC die will also affect the MCC.

I was under the impression that some of the SPR inventory was not affected by the bug(s), or was it that the clients they were shipping to did not care about the problem ?

I'll try to find the source for actual wording and quote bellow. Found it transcribed by Ian Cutress on Twitter:

We're already ramping a number of SKUs of SPR starting last Q. The particular issue, wasn't affecting those SKUs, so we did another tapeout for the volume SKUs, ramping in 2H. Feel comfortable. EMR goes into the SPR platform, product is healthy for 2023.

 

[nicalandia]

I was under the impression that some of the SPR inventory was not affected by the bug(s), or was it that the clients they were shipping to did not care about the problem ?

I'll try to find the source for actual wording and quote bellow.

It's the second part(Buggs did not affect clients workload so they ship them anyways)

 

[Exist50]

Any particular reason for Intel going the Monolithic rout for a low core count CPU? That thing is pushing the reticle limit and i'ts not going to beat the Top of the line Xeon W9 3495X.

The XCC die/package has a lot of overhead, and there's a ton of server volume on sub-flagship products. So what makes more sense for that market - to cut down the 1600+mm2 XCC to fit, or to ship a monolithic MCC die with less than half the silicon and no advanced packaging?

That's why I've always been confused about the resistance to the idea that this product exists. It makes complete economic sense. The only thing even remotely in question was whether Intel could build it.

 

[nicalandia]

If it was actually 770 mm2 (it doesn't look that big but the Toms angle isn't that great)

Size Comparison at same scale..

It makes complete economic sense. The only thing even remotely in question was whether Intel could build it.

They can only extract 68 Full Dies(less are fully functional due to defect rate)

 

[Exist50]

They can only extract 68 Full Dies(less are fully functional due to defect rate)

Sure, there're some inefficiencies there, but it's surely far cheaper than using the XCC. And it looks like most of these dies will be going into 32c products, so they have some spare cores for yields.

 

[jpiniero]

Sure, there're some inefficiencies there, but it's surely far cheaper than using the XCC. And it looks like most of these dies will be going into 32c products, so they have some spare cores for yields.

Hah. At 0.7 defects/mm2, they would get a grand total of 2 unblemished dies per wafer. It'd be like Icelake-W - completely MIA.

 

[Exist50]

Hah. At 0.7 defects/mm2, they would get a grand total of 2 unblemished dies per wafer. It'd be like Icelake-W - completely MIA.

And where is defect density number coming from? And even if a core or two are dead, so what? As I pointed out above, they have a comfortable 2 core buffer.

I recall you were very insistent that this very product would never exist. Maybe time to rethink some assumptions?

 

[jpiniero]

I recall you were very insistent that this very product would never exist. Maybe time to rethink some assumptions?

Maybe I underestimate the stupidity of Intel.

 

[Exist50]

Maybe I underestimate the stupidity of Intel.

It's really not a good look to double down like this.

 

[jpiniero]

It's really not a good look to double down like this.

Who exactly is going to bother with this? No OEM is going to touch this like Icelake-W since there would be no volume.

 

[nicalandia]

It's really not a good look to double down like this.

As far as we know, it's just a Wafer right? AMD built and actually finished the ThreadRipper Non-PRO CPUs to the point of actually working ES Samples were Breaking World Records on Water. But they decided to cancel it all together due to market trends...

What is the chance of these Monolithic CPUs following suit due to the same trend?

 

[Exist50]

since there would be no volume.

Again, a completely unfounded assumption. But sure, if you want to believe that Intel made this chip just for the lulz, fine. If we trusted your intuition, we would not be having this discussion at all.

 

[Exist50]

As far as we know, it's just a Wafer right? AMD built and actually finished the ThreadRipper Non-PRO CPUs to the point of actually working ES Samples were Breaking World Records on Water. But they decided to cancel it all together due to market trends...

What is the chance of these Monolithic CPUs following suit due to the same trend?

This is very clearly a server chip first and foremost. I think we'll probably see it come to the workstation market as well (it's the same socket and IO, after all, so why not?), but it has plenty of reason to exist regardless.

 

[Timmah!]

This is very clearly a server chip first and foremost. I think we'll probably see it come to the workstation market as well (it's the same socket and IO, after all, so why not?), but it has plenty of reason to exist regardless.

At least 50 reasons to exist

Regarding the former argument about whether the rumors of the monolithic chip are true or not, while @jpiniero might have claimed his doubts, i believe the one to oppose the "idea" the most was surely @nicalandia.
Not to cause any argument now or point fingers, it does not matter at all anyway, just correcting the record

your own words: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...ure-lakes-rapids-thread.2509080/post-40756992

 

[LightningZ71]

Do you have an Idea how long it will take for the actual product to come to market? Having a Wafer on display is not the same as being production ready

Oh, I'm well aware that, at minimum, we're at least half a year away from such a product hitting OEMs. However, the fact of its existence alone is enough to put downward pressure on the market segment.

 

[nicalandia]

At least 50 reasons to exist

your own words: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...ure-lakes-rapids-thread.2509080/post-40756992

I have admitted many pages ago of the High Chance of a Monolithic Sapphire Rapids because there have been a few entries on Sisoftware of what look like Monolithic SPR CPUs and now with this Die Shot it's pretty much confirmed.

I am kind of perplexed on the design choice since Huge Monolithic CPUs were believed to be a thing of the past.

Here a 300mm 10nm Wafer, 68 Complete dies each measuring 30.8 x 25.20

 

[Timmah!]

I have admitted many pages ago of the High Chance of a Monolithic Sapphire Rapids because there have been a few entries on Sisoftware of what look like Monolithic SPR CPUs and now with this Die Shot it's pretty much confirmed.

I am kind of perplexed on the design choice since Huge Monolithic CPUs were believed to be a thing of the past.

Here a 300mm 10nm Wafer, 68 Complete dies each measuring 30.8 x 25.20
View attachment 68379

Well, people arguing with you back then claimed it might be more financially viable for Intel to produce smaller monolithic chip for lower core counts than waste 1600mm of die space on them, same amount as on full 56/60C config. I guess that would be most likely explanation.
Anyway, seeing how huge the chip is, knowing Intel, this wont be cheap - well, not cheaper than TR5000 anyway. So i may happily stick to my 7950x plans, cause this will be no doubt outside my budget.

 

[dullard]

I am kind of perplexed on the design choice since Huge Monolithic CPUs were believed to be a thing of the past.

There are significant power and latency advantages to monolithic CPUs. The main drawback is lower yields and longer development cycles. As long as you can sell it for a high price, the power/latency gains outweigh the costs of lower yields. Long development cycles are (somewhat) more tolerated on the server side as they don't expect new chips frequently. Also, when your process is behind the competition, you need to pull every lever you have for performance.

 

[nicalandia]

There are significant power and latency advantages to monolithic CPUs.

Up to certain amount of CPU cores yes... But that is no longer the case when you cross the 18 Core CPU barrier. You can bet that those monolithic CPUs will have Subnuma domains(to alleviate the latencies of such large Mesh), the power consumption on such large mesh is significant too.

As an example this 28C/56T Xeon CPU with Mesh interconnect and Subnuma clusters(now called Subnuma Domains)

 

[poke01]

The Official Website is Up with details.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/230485/13th-generation-intel-core-i9-processors.html

I love Intel ark. AMD nor Nv have this level of record keeping. Like it goes into the very nitty-gritty of CPU features.

 

[nicalandia]

Has anyone tested the 13900K with DDR4?