Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Det0x]

That's with Hyperthreading turned off, so 16 threads total

Ehm, no ?
As far as i can see, that was a 13700k with 16 cores / 24 threads:

Video of the run with more info here:

视频去哪了呢？_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

undefined, 视频播放量 undefined、弹幕量 undefined、点赞数 undefined、投硬币枚数 undefined、收藏人数 undefined、转发人数 undefined, 视频作者 undefined, 作者简介 undefined，相关视频：

www.bilibili.com

 

[szrpx]

Ehm, no ?
As far as i can see, that was a 13700k with 16 cores / 24 threads:
View attachment 65338
Video of the run with more info here:

视频去哪了呢？_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

undefined, 视频播放量 undefined、弹幕量 undefined、点赞数 undefined、投硬币枚数 undefined、收藏人数 undefined、转发人数 undefined, 视频作者 undefined, 作者简介 undefined，相关视频：

www.bilibili.com

Isn't this the picture they're referring to?

 

[Det0x]

Isn't this the picture they're referring to?

Did you see the video i linked above ?
Its clearly 16 cores / 24 threads (HT enabled)

 

[coercitiv]

Isn't this the picture they're referring to?

AFAIK the only information about SMT from that window is obscured by the core info pop-up.

 

[szrpx]

Did you see the video i linked above ?
Its clearly 16 cores / 24 threads (HT enabled)

Oh yeah, I guess it is. That is some impressive clockspeed for that power.

 

[AtenRa]

OK we have a official die size , 13900K is 257mm2

A little smaller than ZEN 4 7950X (2x 8Cores chiplets (2x 72mm2) + I/O die (126mm2) = ~270mm2 total die size).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555071605977628673

 

[jpiniero]

24% bigger, 20% higher price? Guess it checks out.

 

[Zucker2k]

24% bigger, 20% higher price? Guess it checks out.

5nm vs 7nm, though? What's that translate to on a size scale? Yes, I know it's not Apple to Apple comparison, though. Waiting for actual measurements from the usual suspects.

 

[AtenRa]

5nm vs 7nm, though? What's that translate to on a size scale? Yes, I know it's not Apple to Apple comparison, though. Waiting for actual measurements from the usual suspects.

I believe he was talking about the 12900K vs 13900K that are both on the same Intel 7 (10nm++) process

 

[Zucker2k]

I believe he was talking about the 12900K vs 13900K that are both on the same Intel 7 (10nm++) process

Gotcha! 🤝🏾

 

[Kaluan]

Side-note: For Zen4 (Ryzen 9 SKUs) just ~144mm2 out of the ~270mm2 are "5nm class", rest is "7nm class". So apples to apples is imdeed really hard if not potentially misleading. If we had MTr/2 numbers maybe it would be more relevant.

And these sorts of comparisons will only get more complex as both chipmskers move towards more chiplet/tile/stacked designs.

 

[nicalandia]

OK we have a official die size , 13900K is 257mm2

A little smaller than ZEN 4 7950X (2x 8Cores chiplets (2x 72mm2) + I/O die (126mm2) = ~270mm2 total die size).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555071605977628673

1st. It's not an official number from Intel.
2nd. The 13900K is a SOC, that means it has a GPU
3rd. It's best to compare Core vs Core to get a Performance per Die Area.

Zen3 has a lead in that department and Zen4 is improving on that since Raptor Lake is turning out to be a Alder Lake with an OC on the same process node.

 

[AtenRa]

1st. It's not an official number from Intel.
2nd. The 13900K is a SOC, that means it has a GPU
3rd. It's best to compare Core vs Core to get a Performance per Die Area.

Zen3 has a lead in that department and Zen4 is improving on that since Raptor Lake is turning out to be a Alder Lake with an OC on the same process node.

View attachment 65405

View attachment 65407

1. Andreas Schilling is working at Intel, so yes it is official
2. ZEN 4 will have an iGPU in the I/O die.
3. I was comparing the entire Intel SOC vs ZEN 4 Chiplets + I/O die.

Raptor Lake is not an OC AL, although it using the same Intel 7 process as AL.

 

[AtenRa]

Side-note: For Zen4 (Ryzen 9 SKUs) just ~144mm2 out of the ~270mm2 are "5nm class", rest is "7nm class". So apples to apples is imdeed really hard if not potentially misleading. If we had MTr/2 numbers maybe it would be more relevant.

And these sorts of comparisons will only get more complex as both chipmskers move towards more chiplet/tile/stacked designs.

Well actually 6nm

 

[nicalandia]

1. Andreas Schilling is working at Intel, so yes it is official
2. ZEN 4 will have an iGPU in the I/O die.
3. I was comparing the entire Intel SOC vs ZEN 4 Chiplets + I/O die.

It's a BS comparison because SOC vs Multi Chiplet design(CCDs + IOD)

If it's not apples to apples(Core vs Core) you might as well make a CPU PCB substrate size comparison.

 

[AtenRa]

It's a BS comparison because SOC vs Multi Chiplet design(CCDs + IOD)

If it's not apples to apples(Core vs Core) you might as well make a CPU PCB substrate size comparison.

Chiplets + I/O die is what AMD is using for the CPU. So we compare what AMD is using against what Intel is using (single die)

I dont see why you believe it is a BS comparison.

 

[Hitman928]

It's a BS comparison because SOC vs Multi Chiplet design(CCDs + IOD)

If it's not apples to apples(Core vs Core) you might as well make a CPU PCB substrate size comparison.

Just a small note, the term the industry has adopted to AMD's type approach is SoP (system on a package). So you can use SoC vs SoP for future reference.

Of course there are various SoP approaches as well so keep that in mind.

 

[nicalandia]

Chiplets + I/O die is what AMD is using for the CPU. So we compare what AMD is using against what Intel is using (single die).

What were you even trying to imply on your first comparison? That RTL 8+16 SOC Is more efficent that AMD Chiplet approach? That has been know for quite a while, but guess what? Intel and the rest of the industry is moving to more Tile based system. Even at the expense of "precious PCB substrate area"

 

[mikk]

1. Andreas Schilling is working at Intel, so yes it is official
2. ZEN 4 will have an iGPU in the I/O die.
3. I was comparing the entire Intel SOC vs ZEN 4 Chiplets + I/O die.

Raptor Lake is not an OC AL, although it using the same Intel 7 process as AL.

Don't spread FUD. This is not a number from Intel, it's a number from a Bilibili video user.

 

[coercitiv]

1. Andreas Schilling is working at Intel, so yes it is official

An editor from hardwareluxx.de is working at Intel?

 

[pakotlar]

54% faster MT than 5950x in latest ES leak. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...-leak-54-faster-multi-core-than-ryzen-9-5950x

Intel Core i9-13900K Retail Raptor Lake CPU Boosts Up To 5.8 GHz At Stock, Beats 64-Core Threadripper 3990X

Intel's Core i9-13900K 24-Core Raptor Lake CPU will offer a boost clock of up to 5.8 GHz and beats a 64-core AMD Threadripper CPU.

wccftech.com

Can 7950X beat this?

 

[Det0x]

54% faster MT than 5950x in latest ES leak. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...-leak-54-faster-multi-core-than-ryzen-9-5950x

Intel Core i9-13900K Retail Raptor Lake CPU Boosts Up To 5.8 GHz At Stock, Beats 64-Core Threadripper 3990X

Intel's Core i9-13900K 24-Core Raptor Lake CPU will offer a boost clock of up to 5.8 GHz and beats a 64-core AMD Threadripper CPU.

wccftech.com

They always compare to the strangest scores to get the maximum amounts of clicks.. pure hyperbole with maxed out overclocked unreleased cpu vs slowest 5950x they could find.
This is my 5950x: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16241068

And i didn't use a chiller

 

[Markfw]

54% faster MT than 5950x in latest ES leak. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...-leak-54-faster-multi-core-than-ryzen-9-5950x

Intel Core i9-13900K Retail Raptor Lake CPU Boosts Up To 5.8 GHz At Stock, Beats 64-Core Threadripper 3990X

Intel's Core i9-13900K 24-Core Raptor Lake CPU will offer a boost clock of up to 5.8 GHz and beats a 64-core AMD Threadripper CPU.

wccftech.com

Can 7950X beat this?

First, its geelbench 5, no idea how well that scales with cores. But a Zen 2 with 4 times the threads gets beaten ? I highly doubt that real, or geekbench is trash.

See above, furthur evidence that this is not real, but clickbait.

 

[nicalandia]

They always compare to the strangest scores to get the maximum amounts of clicks.. pure hyperbole with maxed out overclocked unreleased cpu vs slowest 5950x they could find.
This is my 5950x: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/16241068
View attachment 65423
And i didn't use a chiller

Stock 7950X will beat that quite easily.

 

[nicalandia]

54% faster MT than 5950x in latest ES leak. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...-leak-54-faster-multi-core-than-ryzen-9-5950x

7950X should be able to match that at stock, no problem.