Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[uzzi38]

Not true actually. If you want to properly compare performance / watt you need to do it at the same wattage. And when you do that, there isnt a big difference between a 12900k and a 5950x,around 10% in heavy MT workloads. And that difference is mostly due to ecores having bad efficiency, the P cores are more efficient than zen 3.

That depends on the power you test them at.

There's a crossover point at somewhere around 8-10W for core-only power, depends on the set of workloads tested. Below that Zen 3 has the advantage. Above that Golden Cove has the advantage.

 

[Just Benching]

That depends on the power you test them at.

There's a crossover point at somewhere around 8-10W for core-only power, depends on the set of workloads tested. Below that Zen 3 has the advantage. Above that Golden Cove has the advantage.

Doubt it. We ran some tests with detox, 8 zen 3 cores vs 8 gc cores, the zen 3 cores lost in every wattage. His zen 3 was highly binned and tuned within an inch of its life, i was running my 12900k at default mobo settings 😂

 

[exquisitechar]

The 7000XD will have absolutely no trouble dealing with the 13900KS.

I wouldn’t claim that with such confidence.

 

[uzzi38]

Doubt it. We ran some tests with detox, 8 zen 3 cores vs 8 gc cores, the zen 3 cores lost in every wattage. His zen 3 was highly binned and tuned within an inch of its life, i was running my 12900k at default mobo settings 😂

How about I leave the tests to the actual reviewers?

Major point of note there is the 5800X vs 12900K with only P cores locked at 88W where the two are identical (this should be around 10W per-core power), then you also have the unlocked (actually stock but same thing, the 5800X won't pull much more power anyway) 5800X vs the 12900K locked at 125W where the 5800X loses.

 

[Just Benching]

How about I leave the tests to the actual reviewers?

Major point of note there is the 5800X vs 12900K with only P cores locked at 88W where the two are identical (this should be around 10W per-core power), then you also have the unlocked (actually stock but same thing, the 5800X won't pull much more power anyway) 5800X vs the 12900K locked at 125W where the 5800X loses.

View attachment 67420

Reviewers are pretty terrible at... Reviewing.

 

[Abwx]

12900k and a 5950x,around 10% in heavy MT workloads. And that difference is mostly due to ecores having bad efficiency, the P cores are more efficient than zen 3.

Better get your numbers right if you want to make such assumptions..

16-20% better perf for the 5950X at same wattage, that s not exactly 10%, at same power the 12900K is on par with a 5900X.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

 

[Asterox]

Not true actually. If you want to properly compare performance / watt you need to do it at the same wattage. And when you do that, there isnt a big difference between a 12900k and a 5950x,around 10% in heavy MT workloads. And that difference is mostly due to ecores having bad efficiency, the P cores are more efficient than zen 3.

No, or yes if you never run Blender. This is just one very good example, no need to look at any similar rendering app.

- R5 5600X has more Cache and 500mhz higher all core CPU frequency vs i5 12400

 

[Just Benching]

Better get your numbers right if you want to make such assumptions..

16-20% better perf for the 5950X at same wattage, that s not exactly 10%, at same power the 12900K is on par with a 5900X.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

You realize the average depends on what he is testing, right? Only 7zip and digicortex have a big difference and it skews the results. In the rest of apps the difference is between -2 (so 12900k wins) and 10%. Also he is not using CBR23 that ald does well in, but uses app that zen 3 does well in, so yeah.

 

[Just Benching]

No, or yes if you are never run Blender. This is just one very good example, no need to look at any similar rendering app.

- R5 5600X has more Cache and 500mhz higher all core CPU frequency vs i5 12400

Sure but at this point you are comparing bins instead of CPU's. That's why the proper comparison is between a 5950x with 8 cores disabled (best binned zen 3) and a 12900k with e cores off. The 12400 is by far the worst ALD bin so it makes sense that its not doing great.

 

[Abwx]

You realize the average depends on what he is testing, right? Only 7zip and digicortex have a big difference and it skews the results. In the rest of apps the difference is between -2 (so 12900k wins) and 10%. Also he is not using CBR23 that ald does well in, but uses app that zen 3 does well in, so yeah.

He s using CB R23, CB R20 and CB R15, you should notice that both R23 and R20 are favourable to ADL, as well as POVRay.

Here the benchs suite :

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Ein rekordverdächtiger Testumfang / Windows 10 vs. Windows 11

www.computerbase.de

 

[Zucker2k]

Let's have Igor Wallosek, him with all the instruments for testing power consumption, chip in, shall we?



Edit: This is gaming. Looking for apps power efficiency and will post in a minute.

Intel Core i9-12900K(F), Core i7-12700K and Core i5-12600K Review - Gaming in really fast and really frugal | Part 1 | igor´sLAB

Intel in fast AND economical? Yes, since the 12th. Generation, i.e. Alder Lake S, this also fits together again. And so today’s text effectively becomes the narrative for a kind of turnaround…

www.igorslab.de

Intel Alder Lake Test: When motherboard settings affect the power consumption and temperature of the CPU | Practice | igor´sLAB

Are you still amazed about the so different power consumption values at the different launch reviews of Intel’s Alder Lake? In the meantime I have the data of a second motherboard model and I could…

www.igorslab.de

Intel Alder Lake S - Power consumption myths and no end | igor´sLAB

I had already discussed the behavior of the new Intel CPUs on different motherboards a few days ago, but the whole thing didn’t leave me alone in the end. The measured differences…

www.igorslab.de

 

[Just Benching]

He s using CB R23, CB R20 and CB R15, you should notice that both R23 and R20 are favourable to ADL, as well as POVRay.

Here the benchs suite :

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Ein rekordverdächtiger Testumfang / Windows 10 vs. Windows 11

www.computerbase.de

No, he is actually not using CBR23 in the graph that he shows power consumption. Click on the wheel icon and youll see what apps he used.

 

[Just Benching]

Let's have Igor Wallosek, him with all the instruments for testing power consumption, chip in, shall we?

View attachment 67421

Yea according to igors testing ald stomps Zen 3 in efficiency, but he is mainly testing lightly threaded apps. We know that in lightly threaded stuff like autocad photoshop etc. ald >>> zen 3. Here we are talking about all core workloads

 

[Abwx]

No, he is actually not using CBR23 in the graph that he shows power consumption. Click on the wheel icon and youll see what apps he used.

That change absolutely nothing since there s CB R20 and the 12900K has only 4% advantage in CB R23 MT, guess that you thought that the difference in this bench was much larger, prove is made that Intel s marketing is very efficient contrary to their flagship CPUs.

 

[Just Benching]

That change absolutely nothing since there s CB R20 and the 12900K has only 4% advantage in CB R23 MT, guess that you thought that the difference in this bench was much larger, prove is made that Intel s marketing is very efficient contrary to their flagship CPUs.

Of course it changes stuff. The 12900k actually loses in CBR20 at 125w, wtf are you talking about?

Anyways, point is, heavy MT workloads 5950x is a little bit more efficient than 12900k,lightly threaded workloads 12900k is way mor efficient than 5950x.

Apparently amds marketing is more efficient than their cpus as well

 

[João Bortolace]

I find this comment and the other slide about meeting targets constantly hilarious.

"Look guys, CCG are super consistent and we almost always ship on time!"

"In other entirely unrelated news, Meteor Lake was going to be late so we needed a stop-gap"

Anyway, Intel 7 is holding Intel over really well and damn are they squeezing quite a lot out of it. Makes you wonder why they're not planning on offerring it as a foundry option though. Or using it for any tiles on MTL. Or hell, even producing GPUs on it. Rather odd.

A bad Transistor/$?

 

[nicalandia]

I wouldn’t claim that with such confidence.

Why? Are those extra 200Mhz made out of gold or something? Do you really believe that 200Mhz will change the playing field? Really?

Mind you a 4.5 Ghz 5800X3D overcame a 18% speed deficit, A RAM defiit(DDR4 vs DDR5) and matched a 12900K on average.

The 7800X3D Will have MUCH less to worry about this time.

 

[Just Benching]

Why? Are those extra 200Mhz made out of gold or something? Do you really believe that 200Mhz will change the playing field? Really?

Mind you a 4.5 Ghz 5800X3D overcame a 18% speed deficit, A RAM defiit(DDR4 vs DDR5) and matched a 12900K on average.

The 7800X3D Will have MUCH less to worry about this time.

Agree, the 200mhz will be useless. But then again, the zen 4 this time around has DDR5, so we don't need for sure how much improvement the bigger cache will bring. Zen 3 was memory starved so the 3d actually made a huge difference.

 

[Abwx]

Anyways, point is, heavy MT workloads 5950x is a little bit more efficient than 12900k,lightly threaded workloads 12900k is way mor efficient than 5950x.

In single thread the whole plateform use 105W for the 5950X and 101W for the 12900K, hope there s not a second thread that ruin this fragile win.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistungsaufnahme, Temperaturen und OC

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistungsaufnahme, Temperaturen und OC / Leistungsaufnahme in Spielen / Leistungsaufnahme in Anwendungen

www.computerbase.de

Why? Are those extra 200Mhz made out of gold or something? Do you really believe that 200Mhz will change the playing field? Really?

Guess that it will require to pump over 40W in a single core, possibly close to 50W.

 

[Just Benching]

In single thread the whole plateform use 105W for the 5950X and 101W for the 12900K, hope there s not a second thread that ruin this fragile win.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistungsaufnahme, Temperaturen und OC

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistungsaufnahme, Temperaturen und OC / Leistungsaufnahme in Spielen / Leistungsaufnahme in Anwendungen

www.computerbase.de

Fragile win? Man in single thread the 12900k is also way faster than the 5950x, lol

 

[Abwx]

Why? Are those extra 200Mhz made out of gold or something? Do you really believe that 200Mhz will change the playing field? Really?

Guess that it will require to pump over 40W in a single core, possibly close to 50W.

Fragile win? Man in single thread the 12900k is also way faster than the 5950x, lol

Dunno if there s people using Cinema 4D renderer with a single thread and buying 16C CPUs for that usage, what matter is the MT perf and perf/Watt, rest is eluding the issues brought by this non convincible hybrid design.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I guess you are correct with current generation, but TSMC N5 vs Intel 7 will be difficult for intel in laptops as well.

Alder Lake-U/P has poor battery life even compared to TSMC N6 (Rembrandt). That may be more due to the design than the process. Interestingly enough, we haven't seen any serious attempts at low power products on 10ESF/Intel 7 that immediately come to mind. Alder Lake-N, where are you?

 

[Just Benching]

Dunno if there s people using Cinema 4D renderer with a single thread and buying 16C CPUs for that usage, what matter is the MT perf and perf/Watt, rest is eluding the issues brought by this non convincible hybrid design.

But there are people using autocad premier photoshop and other similar apps, in which case ald wipes the floor with zen 3 in both efficiency and performance

 

[biostud]

Looking at this test it seems zen3 is managing better than ADL in CBR23 multi-threadded

Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Tested at Power Limits between 50 W and 241 W - Power Consumption | TechPowerUp

 

[Just Benching]

Looking at this test it seems zen3 is managing better than ADL in CBR23 multi-threadded

Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Tested at Power Limits between 50 W and 241 W - Power Consumption | TechPowerUp

Yeah, cause the performance numbers are way off. He has the 12900k @ 125 getting 18k points in CBR23, which is just....not right