Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Abwx]

You(or maybe everybody here) can re-read the leak of 13900K QS 2 months ago:

View attachment 68286


this was very likely tested with unlimited power mode, its power peak at 420w for 1 second. most number are below 41% except 7z and cpuz.

There s other numbers but that s all Pugetbench or so :

And for Exist50 about the improved process :

Intel Raptor Lake-S: Mehr Kerne, Takt und TDP für (viel) mehr CPU-Leistung

Ein „signifikant verbesserter Fertigungsprozess“ soll Raptor Lake von Intel Beine machen und gegen AMD Ryzen 7000 bestehen lassen.

www.computerbase.de

 

[nicalandia]

Wow thats a first.. Intel admitting the 5800x3d is beating both the 12900k and 13900k in some games ?

Official Chart here.



The 7800X3D will build at the very least a 15% on top of that.

 

[Harry_Wild]

No low wattage Raptor Lake CPU yet! 65-75 watts! Maybe they do the mobile launch then the desktop?

 

[nicalandia]

No low wattage Raptor Lake CPU yet! 65-75 watts! Maybe they do the mobile launch then the desktop?

The Top 13900HK and 13700H will be rebranded Alder Lake.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Reality comeback, it hits hard!

 

[nicalandia]

Reality comeback, it hits hard!

Yes, that the 5800X3D is really a Champ here.

 

[Markfw]

There s other numbers but that s all Pugetbench or so :

And for Exist50 about the improved process :

Intel Raptor Lake-S: Mehr Kerne, Takt und TDP für (viel) mehr CPU-Leistung

Ein „signifikant verbesserter Fertigungsprozess“ soll Raptor Lake von Intel Beine machen und gegen AMD Ryzen 7000 bestehen lassen.

www.computerbase.de

The problem I see is that they are comparing against the 5950x, and in those apps, the 7950x is WAY faster than the 5950x. And that CPU was out before the presentations were made. So we have no idea how it really does. We have to wait until the commercial results come in when it is released next month.

 

[deathBOB]

The problem I see is that they are comparing against the 5950x, and in those apps, the 7950x is WAY faster than the 5950x. And that CPU was out before the presentations were made. So we have no idea how it really does. We have to wait until the commercial results come in when it is released next month.

Pretty silly to criticize Intel for not addressing a product that left NDA just 24 or so hours before. Especially when AMD was a wuss and didn’t even address their own 5800x3d.

 

[nicalandia]

Performance Index 13th Gen Intel® Core™ Desktop Processors

Intel® Core™ (14th Gen) Desktop Processors - 1 | Performance Index

edc.intel.com

 

[Det0x]

Performance Index 13th Gen Intel® Core™ Desktop Processors

Intel® Core™ (14th Gen) Desktop Processors - 1 | Performance Index

edc.intel.com

What is this "PL1 105w TDP" intel keep takling about ?

Did they manually set PPT limit to 105w for the 5950x ??
Same PPT limit for both 5800x3d and 16core 5950x ? against 13900k @ 253watt ?

 

[DrMrLordX]

But i'm pretty sure it wont be enough against Zen4 3d..

Indeed. Though nobody knows for sure when Raphael-X hits the streets. November? January? March? Complete unknown. So much waiting ugh.

Anyway it's hard to believe that Raptor Lake has to hold Intel over til Arrow Lake. It's a nice little upgrade for people that already liked Alder Lake, at least in those instances when it's actual Raptor Lake (and not just an Alder Lake refresh), but otherwise . . .

 

[nicalandia]

What is this "PL1 105w TDP" intel keep takling about ?

Did they manually set PPT limit to 105w for the 5950x ??
Same PPT limit for both 5800x3d and 16core 5950x ? against 13900k @ 253watt ?
View attachment 68302

It is obvious that they limited the 5950X to 105 Watts.

 

[nicalandia]

Anyway it's hard to believe that Raptor Lake has to hold Intel over til Arrow Lake.

And on the Mobile/Laptop their Top 13900HK is an Alder Lake that will have to hold Dragon Range until Meteor Lake.

 

[Exist50]

And on the Mobile/Laptop their Top 13900HK is an Alder Lake that will have to hold Dragon Range until Meteor Lake.

I'm curious about that bit. Is it rebranded Alder Lake, or Raptor Lake without the increase in L2? Not that it makes much of a difference either way, but still.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Raptorlake improvements:
-Improved Intel 7 process with greater than 50mV reduction at the same frequency, 200MHz increase at the same voltage, and 600MHz increase in clocks at peak
-Machine learning prefetcher for the L3 allows INI caching scheme. INI = Inclusive/Non Inclusive, and it can switch between the two on the fly depending on the needs in 200us times. Was in Alderlake but didn't get used. Sounds like what Raichu was talking about regarding "secret sauce"? Though that was about Golden Cove.
-L2 cache in the E cores also use machine learning to improve prefetching. Performance improves from 2% in some circumstances to 16% in others.
-Fabric frequency increased by 900MHz to 5GHz. Apparently in leaks it said 4.6GHz with E cores active?
-The improvement with caching and prefetchers along with caches allow E cores to perform just like the original Skylake.

 

[pakotlar]

What is this "PL1 105w TDP" intel keep takling about ?

Did they manually set PPT limit to 105w for the 5950x ??
Same PPT limit for both 5800x3d and 16core 5950x ? against 13900k @ 253watt ?
View attachment 68302

That 105 W TDP means PPT = 142W, and represents the maximum sustained (indefinite) draw. AMDs TDP means nothing, the CPU will draw up to the socket limit indefinitely, which is 142W. Thats the stock behavior.

Stock for 13900K is 125W PL1, but like AMD will indefinitely draw their socket limit, which is PL2 = 253W. So for 13900K and 12900K, unless tau is set to something other than the default indefinite value, PL1=PL2=253W for 13900K or 241W for 12900K.

So they are comparing stock 5800X 3D to stock 13900K.

 

[pakotlar]

It is obvious that they limited the 5950X to 105 Watts.

Wrong

 

[nicalandia]

I'm curious about that bit. Is it rebranded Alder Lake, or Raptor Lake without the increase in L2? Not that it makes much of a difference either way, but still.

Occam's razor.

What is the chance of Intel expending resources on upgrading Golden Cove to Raptor Cove and then taking Raptor Cove and removing 60% of the L2 to lower the power requirements but still keeping some of the memory subsystem updates?

Or just using Golden Cove on a Mature Node to use resources on MTL.

 

[moinmoin]

What is this "PL1 105w TDP" intel keep takling about ?

Did they manually set PPT limit to 105w for the 5950x ??
Same PPT limit for both 5800x3d and 16core 5950x ? against 13900k @ 253watt ?
View attachment 68302

Intel's wording is a mess there but to me it seems they simply used the stock 105W TDP/142W PPT of 5950X and X800X3D.

 

[pakotlar]

Indeed. Though nobody knows for sure when Raphael-X hits the streets. November? January? March? Complete unknown. So much waiting ugh.

Anyway it's hard to believe that Raptor Lake has to hold Intel over til Arrow Lake. It's a nice little upgrade for people that already liked Alder Lake, at least in those instances when it's actual Raptor Lake (and not just an Alder Lake refresh), but otherwise . . .

Intel has stated there will be desktop Meteor Lake bins, whats uncertain is whether there will be high end Meteor Lake desktop parts. For Intel’s sake that would be good, though I’m not optimistic given the talk of clock speed regressions and that the largest leaked part is 6P+8E.

 

[Exist50]

Occam's razor.

What is the chance of Intel expending resources on upgrading Golden Cove to Raptor Cove and then taking Raptor Cove and removing 60% of the L2 to lower the power requirements but still keeping some of the memory subsystem updates.

Or just using Golden Cove on a Mature Node to use resources on MTL.

Why do you think it would be so much effort? Raptor Lake is like 99% identical to Alder Lake anyway. And Intel certainly isn't shy about doing more steppings, lol.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Why do you think it would be so much effort? Raptor Lake is like 99% identical to Alder Lake anyway. And Intel certainly isn't shy about doing more steppings, lol.

Actually modern L2 caches on P cores are closely integrated with the core so it'll need layout changes to increase capacity.

Though they don't necessarily need to go that far. Maybe they are Alderlake+ where it gets the prefetcher changes that weren't able to be used and now they can due to maturity and more steppings.

 

[nicalandia]

Why do you think it would be so much effort? Raptor Lake is like 99% identical to Alder Lake anyway. And Intel certainly isn't shy about doing more steppings, lol.

Why would they remove 60% of the L2 when it's clear that the Raptor Cove uArch is bringing better efficiency than Golden Cove? It does not make much sense to do that(from a performance/efficiency stand point anyways)

 

[nicalandia]

Maybe they are Alderlake+ where it gets the prefetcher changes that weren't able to be used and now they can due to maturity and more steppings.

I could see that(Golden Cove+) happening.

 

[IntelUser2000]

@nicalandia Caches are very power efficient and usually result in LOWER power at the chip level not the other way around.

Intel has stated there will be desktop Meteor Lake bins, whats uncertain is whether there will be high end Meteor Lake desktop parts. For Intel’s sake that would be good, though I’m not optimistic given the talk of clock speed regressions and that the largest leaked part is 6P+8E.

The ideal is skipping Meteorlake on the high end and go straight to Arrowlake like some leakers have said to get 20A as quick as possible.