Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[MarkPost]

OK, at stock 13900k wins, at a higher wattage. art 125 watt, the 7950x wins
View attachment 78636

A clarification: Anandtech review is really done with unlimited power enabled for 13900K, not at stock as they stated. A 13900K @ stock (253W) scores ~39000. The ~40500 score is with unlimited power enabled, ergo, its overclocked.

13900K @ Stock (253W):

13900K @ Overclocked (Unlimited Power)

 

[Markfw]

A clarification: Anandtech review is really done with unlimited power enabled for 13900K, not at stock as they stated. A 13900K @ stock (253W) scores ~39000. The ~40500 score is with unlimited power enabled, ergo, its overclocked.

13900K @ Stock (253W):
I said at 125 watt the 7950x wins. I was not talking stock. Who cares at 253 or 350 or whatever. It sucks power.

13900K @ Overclocked (Unlimited Power)

 

[Hulk]

A clarification: Anandtech review is really done with unlimited power enabled for 13900K, not at stock as they stated. A 13900K @ stock (253W) scores ~39000. The ~40500 score is with unlimited power enabled, ergo, its overclocked.

13900K @ Stock (253W):

13900K @ Overclocked (Unlimited Power)

The 13900K is technically rated for 5.5GHz/4.3GHz stock with sufficient power so this isn't overclocked but it is beyond stock power.

As you see in your power limited run the cores are hitting 5.5/4/3 but can't hold those clocks consistently due to lack of sufficient power.

 

[lopri]

Are you sure? I recently posted this screenshot of my CPU with 8 E cores running a game, and somehow all those 8 E cores got utilised (in average 10%, spikes to 40%.), even though the P cores could handle the load alone.

The point is - even this light load managed to benefit from 8 E cores, why do you think that a bit heavier load could not benefit from 32 E cores?

View attachment 78577

I heard the opposite, too. Apparently there are games that do not consider E-cores as CPU cores and do not offload any workload at all to E-cores. I guess it is game dependent.

 

[Markfw]

The 13900K is technically rated for 5.5GHz/4.3GHz stock with sufficient power so this isn't overclocked but it is beyond stock power.

As you see in your power limited run the cores are hitting 5.5/4/3 but can't hold those clocks consistently due to lack of sufficient power.

Is everybody not reading ???? The poster I was replying to was asking about efficiency. I was saying that at at 125 watts or less, the 7950x was more efficient(higher score at the same wattage), and probably at even at as much as 170 watts.

WHO cares are 230 watts or over !!!

 

[Hulk]

Is everybody not reading ???? The poster I was replying to was asking about efficiency. I was saying that at at 125 watts or less, the 7950x was more efficient(higher score at the same wattage), and probably at even at as much as 170 watts.

WHO cares are 230 watts or over !!!

Yes, the 7950X is insanely efficient at 125W and even 105W. No argument there.

 

[lopri]

I thought this was a Raptor Lake thread.

 

[Markfw]

I thought this was a Raptor Lake thread.

It is. I was answering a question on efficiency. Is that OK with you ?

 

[Alexium]

It is. I was answering a question on efficiency. Is that OK with you ?

My question was different, actually, and still unanswered.

 

[coercitiv]

Do the non-K 13xxx CPUs allow IccMax control? I've just learned that Icc power-limiting works much better for Rocket Lake than the actual PL, and then a tuned Rocket Lake is the same on power efficiency as Zen 3/4 and not 1.5x worse. This totally changes how I perceive these CPUs and I might try one, but I'm interested in the non-K i5-13500 - seems like a great deal.

How are max current limits supposed to improve efficiency?

 

[Alexium]

How are max current limits supposed to improve efficiency?

I have attached a screenshot on the previous page. The same way as power limit, but current limit reportedly works better on Raptor Lake.

 

[coercitiv]

I have attached a screenshot on the previous page. The same way as power limit, but current limit reportedly works better on Raptor Lake.

The screenshot does not answer the question: how is altering the current limit supposed to improve performance relative to power consumption? It seems to me someone sold you on the idea that altering ICC max brings "free" performance, and I'd like to hear the reasoning put in text.

 

[MarkPost]

The 13900K is technically rated for 5.5GHz/4.3GHz stock with sufficient power so this isn't overclocked but it is beyond stock power.

As you see in your power limited run the cores are hitting 5.5/4/3 but can't hold those clocks consistently due to lack of sufficient power.

Well, with the official TDP for 13900K, 253W, it never hits 5.5/4.3 while running at full load, but @5.1-5.2/4.1-4.2.

Anyways, my point was Anandtech review states 13900K is running @stock (253W) and thats not true. Its running beyond specificaction.

 

[amenx]

This is a massive thread, so pardon me if asked already. There seems to be conflicting opinions about e-cores vs p-cores in gaming and with windows scheduling since alder-lake was released. Is that an issue in any way with Raptor Lake?

 

[A///]

Well, with the official TDP for 13900K, 253W, it never hits 5.5/4.3 while running at full load, but @5.1-5.2/4.1-4.2.

Anyways, my point was Anandtech review states 13900K is running @stock (253W) and thats not true. Its running beyond specificaction.

Any chance it's a thermal limit?

 

[CropDuster]

This is a massive thread, so pardon me if asked already. There seems to be conflicting opinions about e-cores vs p-cores in gaming and with windows scheduling since alder-lake was released. Is that an issue in any way with Raptor Lake?

Just my opinion but I think it's more an issue of pre Win 11 OSes and their schedulers not differentiating p cores vs e cores. W11 should assign the focused application to P cores and background tasks to e cores if no P cores are available.

 

[A///]

Just my opinion but I think it's more an issue of pre Win 11 OSes and their schedulers not differentiating p cores vs e cores. W11 should assign the focused application to P cores and background tasks to e cores if no P cores are available.

correct but windows 11 performance seems to be half baked a year and a half later. windows 12 should be the golden ticket.

 

[Markfw]

correct but windows 11 performance seems to be half baked a year and a half later. windows 12 should be the golden ticket.

And the checks in the mail !

Yes, win 11 was supposed to work, but so far no. And win 12 ? who knows. I will stick with tried and true (Zen 4) for now. It is the fastest in everything.

 

[A///]

And the checks in the mail !

Yes, win 11 was supposed to work, but so far no. And win 12 ? who knows. I will stick with tried and true (Zen 4) for now. It is the fastest in everything.

I go by the fact every other version has been decent. There is a reason w11 sucks but I need to find the article that laid claim to why it sucks.

 

[H433x0n]

And the checks in the mail !

Yes, win 11 was supposed to work, but so far no. And win 12 ? who knows. I will stick with tried and true (Zen 4) for now. It is the fastest in everything.

Out of curiosity, are you saying that the scheduling doesn't work? In my experience.. it always has.

If it were truly an issue, you would see some odd behavior in the performance benchmarks being done by 3rd parties.

Edit: I just looked and saw reviews of people disabling e-cores to measure performance differences while gaming and there was none. If there were scheduling issues this likely wouldn’t be the case.

Anecdotally, when gaming I’ve always been able to effectively offload my background tasks to e-cores for my 2nd monitor (twitch, discord, etc).

 

[ZGR]

Doesn’t matter if on AMD or Intel, Process Lasso is a great tool to prevent scheduling issues for certain software.

Hosting a Minecraft forge server is a good example of using Process Lasso to assign it to the E cores. Using physics mods will make Windows wanna put it on the P cores; but that isn’t a good idea if you wanna play on your server.

 

[H433x0n]

Doesn’t matter if on AMD or Intel, Process Lasso is a great tool to prevent scheduling issues for certain software.

Hosting a Minecraft forge server is a good example of using Process Lasso to assign it to the E cores. Using physics mods will make Windows wanna put it on the P cores; but that isn’t a good idea if you wanna play on your server.

That’s a pretty extreme edge case. It’s also not exactly undefined or unwanted behavior. I wouldn’t say it was scheduled incorrectly by being placed onto the P-Cores.

My point in commenting on this thread was to say that you shouldn’t be worried about Windows 11 and P or E core scheduling. I’ve never installed process lasso or felt the need to and I do quite a bit of multi tasking.

 

[coercitiv]

This is a massive thread, so pardon me if asked already. There seems to be conflicting opinions about e-cores vs p-cores in gaming and with windows scheduling since alder-lake was released. Is that an issue in any way with Raptor Lake?

TL;DR gaming works just fine on Intel hybrids and Win 11. I'm saying this as ADL owner who delayed moving to Win 11 until the end of summer 2022. While using Win 10 I had to keep E cores disabled specifically for gaming, after Win 11 was mature enough for my needs I changed the OS and keeping the E cores disabled was no longer needed.

 

[Exist50]

Out of curiosity, are you saying that the scheduling doesn't work? In my experience.. it always has.

If it were truly an issue, you would see some odd behavior in the performance benchmarks being done by 3rd parties.

Edit: I just looked and saw reviews of people disabling e-cores to measure performance differences while gaming and there was none. If there were scheduling issues this likely wouldn’t be the case.

Anecdotally, when gaming I’ve always been able to effectively offload my background tasks to e-cores for my 2nd monitor (twitch, discord, etc).

Don't bother trying to reason with him. He has an irrational hatred of the E-cores and won't let silly things like actual data get in the way.

 

[MarkPost]

Any chance it's a thermal limit?

its a power consumption thing