Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[IEC]

You want to under volt a bit to see where the GPU becomes unstable. You want to OC the hell out of your GDDR6 memory. In my opinion that is where your performance increase will come from. The 9070 is where it's as for super power efficiency out of the box.

You have to be careful with OCing memory on AMD GPUs. At some point when you get unstable you will only notice with decreased performance because rather than failing or crashing immediately you will instead hit the error-correction which will tank performance.

Best bet for easy OC appears to be: undervolt GPU, +10% PT, +10% or whatever a safe margin for memory is. But I would OC memory last because of the above and not try both at once.

 

[Hans Gruber]

You have to be careful with OCing memory on AMD GPUs. At some point when you get unstable you will only notice with decreased performance because rather than failing or crashing immediately you will instead hit the error-correction which will tank performance.

Best bet for easy OC appears to be: undervolt GPU, +10% PT, +10% or whatever a safe margin for memory is. But I would OC memory last because of the above and not try both at once.

There are two variables. If AMD has locked the memory settings in their Adrenaline software. They say you can OC but if they have locked down the GPU with a bios lock. You will get crashes and errors that have nothing to do with artifacts that show up when memory is pushed to the limit.

It's not in AMD's interest to limit anything. I have had an AMD card that is firmware locked for any kind of OCing. You can overclock it but errors and decreased performance are the end result.

 

[itsmydamnation]

It's not in AMD's interest to limit anything. I have had an AMD card that is firmware locked for any kind of OCing. You can overclock it but errors and decreased performance are the end result.

what card? I have never had this on an ATI/AMD card ever and thats going back to 9500pro soft mod to 9700pro.......

my AMD card list

9500pro
X800
X800 all in wonder , unlocked to X800 XTPE
4850
6850
RX580
VEGA 56
5700
7900XTX

 

[Hans Gruber]

what card? I have never had this on an ATI/AMD card ever and thats going back to 9500pro soft mod to 9700pro.......

my AMD card list

9500pro
X800
X800 all in wonder , unlocked to X800 XTPE
4850
6850
RX580
VEGA 56
5700
7900XTX

It's not common but I have seen it on a 5600xt. GDDR6 really overclocks well and gives a lot of extra bandwidth. With undervolting and boosting the memory clocks. A 9070 should run like a 4070 power usage. 180-200w.

 

[marees]

SVOGI is the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever heard of. That has nothing to do with FPS.

This is poor man's ray tracing for global illumination that can run on weaker cards without tanking performance

Pixel = dot
Voxel = solid cube

Ray tracing = line
Cone tracing = a cone of light rather than a ray of light

As you can see above is more than sufficient for global illumination
For shadows, Intel demonstrated a different multi-core cpu based technique using embree library in World of Tanks DX11 game
Reflections hurt my eyes anyway

So there you go. A complete alternative to RT that doesn't require you to upgrade your GPU every 2 years

 

[moonbogg]

This is poor man's ray tracing for global illumination that can run on weaker cards without tanking performance

Pixel = dot
Voxel = solid cube

Ray tracing = line
Cone tracing = a cone of light rather than a ray of light

As you can see above is more than sufficient for global illumination
For shadows, Intel demonstrated a different multi-core cpu based technique using embree library in World of Tanks DX11 game
Reflections hurt my eyes anyway

So there you go. A complete alternative to RT that doesn't require you to upgrade your GPU every 2 years

Sounds good. I don't like how current ray tracing feels like another Nvidia gimmick. The RDNA cards are usually faster in raster at the same price, so I hope alternative techniques get more commonly used. So, if developers decide to use this SVOGI instead, does Nvidia pay them a visit and break their kneecaps? Nvidia does threaten people to make them use their stuff, don't they?

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Sounds good. I don't like how current ray tracing feels like another Nvidia gimmick. The RDNA cards are usually faster in raster at the same price, so I hope alternative techniques get more commonly used. So, if developers decide to use this SVOGI instead, does Nvidia pay them a visit and break their kneecaps? Nvidia does threaten people to make them use their stuff, don't they?

No, instead they wont answer the phone for developer support when you have issues with nvidia drivers, so your game launches broken on 80% of gamers rigs and you have to close your studio down

 

[Keller_TT]

SVOGI is the highest fidelity emulation of Ray Tracing without simulating RTRT and devouring silicon budget and performance. It is better than software RT.

Path Tracing is nothing more than NV marketing BS irrelevant for gaming needs. PT for design/architecture/science simulation, etc., has its purpose, but not for frivolous entertainment without fooling oneself. Games need good art and imagination, and exacting realism is illusionary for what a video game is. Most certainly for utter crap of Punk games.

I would say hybrid ray tracing like how Forza Horizon 5 does it, or Avatar FoP is more than good enough. Indiana Jones does well too with Vulkan 1.3 target that isn't too taxing.
RDR 2 is going to be that ever nostalgic masterpiece for beautiful art and attention to detail for a stunning open world adventure. Who needs RT, really?

I would add Automobilista 2 for sim racing with heck of a lot of physics stuff going on and it has always been so damn well optimized. Runs like a dream in VR too. Reiza is a very small dev studio in Brazil. It runs on DX 11.3 and looks gorgeous without RTRT. The best part is it keeps getting better!

 

[Racan]

Quick AMD is doing decent RT and upscaler. The new talking point is Path Tracing!

Anyone remember the most important future technology PhysX?

Stealing a comment from that video:

Nvidia: The way YOU'RE meant to be PLAYED

 

[Josh128]

Remember the rumor of 9070 series price increase after the first wave of cards is sold? AMD can publicly deny that all it wants--It just hit me how that will come to fruition. Since no MBA cards are made, AMD has little say in the matter. All the AIBs have to do for the next wave is increase the amount of Nitro+, Mercury Mag, top models, etc., and decrease the $599 (Reaper) cards shipped. Precedent was already set by launch pricing of these SKUs, therefore, no price increase is technically taking place. 🤷‍♀️

 

[jpiniero]

Remember the rumor of 9070 series price increase after the first wave of cards is sold? AMD can publicly deny that all it wants--It just hit me how that will come to fruition. Since no MBA cards are made, AMD has little say in the matter. All the AIBs have to do for the next wave is increase the amount of Nitro+, Mercury Mag, top models, etc., and decrease the $599 (Reaper) cards shipped. Precedent was already set by launch pricing of these SKUs, therefore, no price increase is technically taking place. 🤷‍♀️

The Reaper at Newegg's price now is $599/$699.

 

[marees]

Remember the rumor of 9070 series price increase after the first wave of cards is sold? AMD can publicly deny that all it wants--It just hit me how that will come to fruition. Since no MBA cards are made, AMD has little say in the matter. All the AIBs have to do for the next wave is increase the amount of Nitro+, Mercury Mag, top models, etc., and decrease the $599 (Reaper) cards shipped. Precedent was already set by launch pricing of these SKUs, therefore, no price increase is technically taking place. 🤷‍♀️

some retailers have already modified their pricetags ahead of new shipments. Here are the changes we’ve seen:

AMD Radeon 9070 XT​

• Newegg now lists PowerColor’s 9070 XT Reaper at $700, a $100 jump
• Newegg now lists XFX’s 9070 XT Swift at at $730, a $130 jump
• Newegg now lists ASRock’s 9070 XT Steel Legend at $670, a $70 jump
• OCUK now lists PowerColor’s 9070 XT Reaper and Sapphire Pulse 9070 XT at £650, an £80 jump
• OCUK now lists ASRock’s 9070 XT Steel Legend at £669, a £99 jump

AMD Radeon 9070​

• Micro Center now lists XFX’s 9070 Swift OC at $630, an $80 jump
• Micro Center now lists Gigabyte’s 9070 Gaming OC at $670, a $130 jump
• OCUK now lists PowerColor’s 9070 Reaper at £570, a £40 jump
• OCUK now lists Sapphire’s Pulse 9070 at £570, a £40 jump

Not every retailer has changed out the pricetags on every card. Best Buy, which only listed a single model of the 9070 and 9070 XT at MSRP to begin with, hasn’t changed those prices yet — though they’re admittedly still out of stock. (It also now lists a pair of out-of-stock Gigabyte cards at MSRP.) Micro Center also still lists three models of 9070 and four models of 9070 XT at MSRP, though all are out of stock.

https://www.theverge.com/news/628332/amd-9070-xt-gpu-retailer-partner-scalping

 

[NomanA]

PowerColor Reaper on Amazon comes on and off for $599. I am trying to get one since the launch day as its dimensions are so friendly for my SFF case but Amazon absolutely gets flooded by bots when any 9070 becomes available. The closest I have been to buying Reaper is seeing the 'Add to Cart' button on 2-3 occasions but clicking on it only throws up errors. ASRock Steel Legend is another 9070XT with sub 300mm dimension though it's almost triple slot. I was in line at Central Computer on release-day for that card and they sold the last one to the person directly ahead of me. I could get another 9070XT but didn't.

These cards will definitely move the needle for AMD, if the AIB partners can keep making them at the current pace.

 

[scineram]

Remember the rumor of 9070 series price increase after the first wave of cards is sold? AMD can publicly deny that all it wants--It just hit me how that will come to fruition. Since no MBA cards are made, AMD has little say in the matter. All the AIBs have to do for the next wave is increase the amount of Nitro+, Mercury Mag, top models, etc., and decrease the $599 (Reaper) cards shipped. Precedent was already set by launch pricing of these SKUs, therefore, no price increase is technically taking place. 🤷‍♀️

Don't care whatsoever. XT should have been launched at $649 anyway. Tariffs also arrived by now.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

PowerColor Reaper on Amazon comes on and off for $599. I am trying to get one since the launch day as its dimensions are so friendly for my SFF case but Amazon absolutely gets flooded by bots when any 9070 becomes available. The closest I have been to buying Reaper is seeing the 'Add to Cart' button on 2-3 occasions but clicking on it only throws up errors. ASRock Steel Legend is another 9070XT with sub 300mm dimension though it's almost triple slot. I was in line at Central Computer on release-day for that card and they sold the last one to the person directly ahead of me. I could get another 9070XT but didn't.

Morally flexible solution: Should have bought the other 9070XT. Scalped it. Used the proceeds to buy the model you need from another scalper.

 

[blckgrffn]

Morally flexible solution: Should have bought the other 9070XT. Scalped it. Used the proceeds to buy the model you need from another scalper.

Sad to say but not wrong. IMO.

 

[beginner99]

Is there an overview of models and which ones are the best / which ones have some issues?

I especially care about length as anything over aprox 29cm would mean I need a new case on top...

 

[GTracing]

Is there an overview of models and which ones are the best / which ones have some issues?

I especially care about length as anything over aprox 29cm would mean I need a new case on top...

I don't know about the issues part, but this reddit post covers card dimensions.

edit: Techpowerup also lists of the dimensions of each model. link

 

[GaiaHunter]

some retailers have already modified their pricetags ahead of new shipments. Here are the changes we’ve seen:

AMD Radeon 9070 XT​

• Newegg now lists PowerColor’s 9070 XT Reaper at $700, a $100 jump
• Newegg now lists XFX’s 9070 XT Swift at at $730, a $130 jump
• Newegg now lists ASRock’s 9070 XT Steel Legend at $670, a $70 jump
• OCUK now lists PowerColor’s 9070 XT Reaper and Sapphire Pulse 9070 XT at £650, an £80 jump
• OCUK now lists ASRock’s 9070 XT Steel Legend at £669, a £99 jump

AMD Radeon 9070​

• Micro Center now lists XFX’s 9070 Swift OC at $630, an $80 jump
• Micro Center now lists Gigabyte’s 9070 Gaming OC at $670, a $130 jump
• OCUK now lists PowerColor’s 9070 Reaper at £570, a £40 jump
• OCUK now lists Sapphire’s Pulse 9070 at £570, a £40 jump

Not every retailer has changed out the pricetags on every card. Best Buy, which only listed a single model of the 9070 and 9070 XT at MSRP to begin with, hasn’t changed those prices yet — though they’re admittedly still out of stock. (It also now lists a pair of out-of-stock Gigabyte cards at MSRP.) Micro Center also still lists three models of 9070 and four models of 9070 XT at MSRP, though all are out of stock.

https://www.theverge.com/news/628332/amd-9070-xt-gpu-retailer-partner-scalping

Well on the overclockers UK forum there was a post during release day that said they only had 10x 9070 XT Steel legends at the £569.99 MSRP. I could only get the Steel Legend when the price went up to £649.99 a few hours later

It seems pretty obvious that those cheaper prices were teaser prices.

The 9070 seems to make more sense now that there is a $100 between it and the 9070xt.

The 7800xt is looking pretty attractive at around £460-480 vs the 9070 at £600+, especially if one doesnt care about RT and/or upscaling.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The 7800xt is looking pretty attractive at around £460-480 vs the 9070 at £600+, especially if one doesn't care about RT and/or upscaling.

LULZ Just insert an Nvidia card for the 9070XT and nothing changes 🤣 AMD has arrived!