Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[del42sa]

https://wccftech.com/amd-rdna-4-gpu...linux-driver-vcn5-encode-decode-capabilities/

AMD RDNA 4 GPU Patches Sees Merging Into Mesa’s RadeonSI Linux Driver, VCN5 Encode/Decode Capabilities Revealed​

 

[Mahboi]

There are no laptops with RDNA4.

It's AMDone.

 

[branch_suggestion]

There are no laptops with RDNA4.

RDNA3 was that bad, huh?
It makes sense, but relying on APUs for laptop sales until possibly 2026 is rough.

 

[Kepler_L2]

https://wccftech.com/amd-rdna-4-gpu...linux-driver-vcn5-encode-decode-capabilities/

AMD RDNA 4 GPU Patches Sees Merging Into Mesa’s RadeonSI Linux Driver, VCN5 Encode/Decode Capabilities Revealed​

It's funny that no one realized the full specs of Navi48 are public

It's AMDone.

For now, they will try again with RDNA5

RDNA3 was that bad, huh?
It makes sense, but relying on APUs for laptop sales until possibly 2026 is rough.

Yeah, Radeon needs to get their execution in order. For now OEMs will stick with ol' green reliable.

 

[leoneazzurro]

I think with RDNA4 they missed the launch window of most of the OEM. Generally you need to launch laptop GPUs with availability in the 1H of the year.

 

[del42sa]

Exclusive: Dell XPS 16 laptop may integrate AMD CPU in 2027

 

[Mahboi]

For now, they will try again with RDNA5

Is it bad that I've started seeing Radeon as a cartoon villain?

"Curse you, you have defeated me this time, but I will return!" every episode. Well every generation.

 

[del42sa]

"Curse you, you have defeated me this time, but I will return!" every episode. Well every generation.

neverending story and it´s hardly change unless RTG changes significantly their attitude ...

 

[Mahboi]

Do we have any indication from the VCN 5.0 code whether it's Xilinx IP?
I've been wondering for awhile if they're going to transition out some or all of their old media IPs that were never that amazing and install Xilinx stuff instead.

neverending story and it´s hardly change unless RTG changes significantly their attitude ...

So said adroc. "Reset the execution machine".
Just another 2 freaking years of waiting for the hype to be real...after the last 4.

 

[Heartbreaker]

RDNA3 was that bad, huh?
It makes sense, but relying on APUs for laptop sales until possibly 2026 is rough.

Strix Halo could have cost advantages over Discrete GPUs since it uses a shared memory pool, while having similar to discrete GPU performance.

AMD would have to price it enough that system makers see a clear savings though. Temptation will be there to increase profit margins...

 

[ToTTenTranz]

It's AMDone.

Does either of the RDNA4 chips make sense in laptops?

Kraken, Strix Point and Strix Halo should cover 95% of gaming laptops. Strix Halo should provide similar performance to discrete N44 but with a lot more memory available.

Perhaps a low-clock N48 variant would fit into a desktop replacement, but I can't remember the last time AMD managed to get a design win in one of those.

 

[del42sa]

Do we have any indication from the VCN 5.0 code whether it's Xilinx IP?
I've been wondering for awhile if they're going to transition out some or all of their old media IPs that were never that amazing and install Xilinx stuff instead.

So said adroc. "Reset the execution machine".
Just another 2 freaking years of waiting for the hype to be real...after the last 4.

I have heard stories like this many times so I´ll believe it when I see it. it reminds me time before Vega launch, so much hype, cool features like Primitive Shader, HBCC, Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer, NGG and then .... cold douche 🚿🤔🚿

 

[Mahboi]

cold douche 🤔

Shower.
Douche has another meaning in Ingurlish.

 

[Mahboi]

Does either of the RDNA4 chips make sense in laptops?

How is N44 not perfect for laptops?
Small 130mm², 8Go VRAM, highly capable for most tasks while remaining low power enough.

Kraken, Strix Point and Strix Halo should cover 95% of gaming laptops. Strix Halo should provide similar performance to discrete N44 but with a lot more memory available.

Oh you meant vis à vis RDNA 3.5.
Mmmmh. Good point.

Perhaps a low-clock N48 variant would fit into a desktop replacement, but I can't remember the last time AMD managed to get a design win in one of those.

Good points. Maybe that's why RDNA 4.5 is kill, RDNA 3.5 fits the bill for 90% of "good enough to game" laptops while Nvidia covers the mid to high end much better. Although I still think N48 could do very well in lappies, it's not very interesting over ExecuteVidia...

A very interesting thing to observe will be how often Strix Point is accepted as "solo" vs "driver of an NVidia GPU".
Already we've seen 4050s into STX lappies and I don't see it as a very good sign.

 

[del42sa]

Shower.
Douche has another meaning in Ingurlish.yp

you mean like beeing a douche , because believing in Radeon Technology promises ? right then we all

 

[jpiniero]

Does either of the RDNA4 chips make sense in laptops?

Given that I thought I saw some rumors of Strix Point laptops with Ada, yeah.

 

[branch_suggestion]

Strix Halo could have cost advantages over Discrete GPUs since it uses a shared memory pool, while having similar to discrete GPU performance.

AMD would have to price it enough that system makers see a clear savings though. Temptation will be there to increase profit margins...

I hope Halo does make its way into machines that would usually have a low/mid spec dGPU.
But I doubt it, it will mostly be in extreme dGPUless T&L's. Good margins, bad volumes. The thing is the traditional volume gaming laptops are not really optimised around having only an APU. OEMs with these machines like making them flexible for different SKU combinations and reuse.

 

[Joe NYC]

Maybe it's coming out on mobile first and/or decided to wait on desktop until RDNA2/3 supply dries up.

I don't see any signs of RDAN 4 in mobile, yet...

 

[Joe NYC]

For now, they will try again with RDNA5

By then, we might be into Zen 6 generation of mobile, and potentially 2nd generation of Strix Halo. Bu then, the concept of powerful iGPU may be proven.

Why not concentrate effort's there, rather than mobile dGPU?

It seems that nVidia sees the writing on the wall too, and is trying to get into iGPU:

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money.udn.com

 

[SolidQ]

Wow, pure bulls**t from PC gamer. AMD out from GPU?
Ultimately, then, I'll stick to what I said last time around. RDNA 4 and the Radeon RX 8000-series, as it will presumably be known, will be limited in scope and something of a stop gap. It'll be RNDA 5 in late 2025, or more likely 2026, that could be the last roll of the dice for AMD and its Radeon gaming graphics. If that's a flop, it's hard to see why AMD will keep investing in what AMD itself dismisses as a low-margin business. And so it could be adios for discrete Radeon GPUs on the PC.

 

[maddie]

Wow, pure bulls**t from PC gamer. AMD out from GPU?
Ultimately, then, I'll stick to what I said last time around. RDNA 4 and the Radeon RX 8000-series, as it will presumably be known, will be limited in scope and something of a stop gap. It'll be RNDA 5 in late 2025, or more likely 2026, that could be the last roll of the dice for AMD and its Radeon gaming graphics. If that's a flop, it's hard to see why AMD will keep investing in what AMD itself dismisses as a low-margin business. And so it could be adios for discrete Radeon GPUs on the PC.

Extending GPU tech to the PC from consoles will not cost anywhere close to only being solely on PC. Most of the R&D will be spent anyhow, assuming console wins continue. I understand chasing margin, but revenue is possibly even more critical for continued existence. After all, you can survive on lower margins, but less revenue means less $ for R&D, etc, a death spiral.

 

[igor_kavinski]

neverending story and it´s hardly change unless RTG changes significantly their attitude ...

They need moral support from their management and also monetary rewards to entice them to do better. I don't think RTG was ever properly integrated into AMD. They are probably treated as 2nd class citizens compared to the CPU teams.

@adroc_thurston may know something about that.

 

[marees]

Wow, pure bulls**t from PC gamer. AMD out from GPU?
Ultimately, then, I'll stick to what I said last time around. RDNA 4 and the Radeon RX 8000-series, as it will presumably be known, will be limited in scope and something of a stop gap. It'll be RNDA 5 in late 2025, or more likely 2026, that could be the last roll of the dice for AMD and its Radeon gaming graphics. If that's a flop, it's hard to see why AMD will keep investing in what AMD itself dismisses as a low-margin business. And so it could be adios for discrete Radeon GPUs on the PC.

I thought AMD did pretty well to maintain margin at 16-18% despite a brutal 50% shrink in revenue

AMD has seen worse. Question is business people are saying that if the product is not fast moving then 16% margin is NOT AT ALL enough

I disagree. But then I also don't have an MBA (like the suits that closed down xbox gaming studios)

Given that RDNA 4 chips are the size of polaris 11/14 or 6600xt/6500xt & nvidia's 6500xt equivalent (4060 ti) launched at $400, I still see lots of scope for AMD to sell discrete GPUs. (Loss of laptop market is a big deal tho)

Also AMD sells GPUs for data centres anyway, so probably not too much of an investment for discreet gaming GPU

if they drop the ball on discreet gaming then Intel could swoop in for a console win (Xbox?), assuming Intel has more money to burn

AMD's gaming graphics business looks like it's in terminal decline

There's no getting round it, the Radeon RX 7000 GPU family looks like a disaster.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[del42sa]

perhaps new architecture called AIDNA would save the day

 

[marees]

perhaps new architecture called AIDNA would save the day

rAIdeon ?