Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[DaaQ]

Here's the PCIE feature test, kinda shows that PCIE selling point. But the point was the frequency and bottleneck.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Does not the GPU utilization in hwinfo64 not suffice? would steel nomad suffice? PCIE feature test suffice? Did 20 loops of speedway, I will only do FSE or yltra without cpu test because yea it is 2fps on that test, Ill do the 2 gpu tests.

What does 100% GPU usage and 80% CPU usage mean?
EDIT:
BTW you are saying 20-30% of the chip is not functioning, then end your post with you are speculating.

This card performs alot different than the Dec 2022 reviews. Put you money out and test one.

2nd EDIT: look at the 3dmark site, you can see mine in there also, REALLY easy to look up. CPU GPU search.

3rd edit here ya go.

View attachment 100697View attachment 100698

Nobody is going to take you seriously because you are using an 8350 that would bottleneck even a 1080. I did not say that 20-30% of the GPU core was nonfunctioning. That was started on the internet by sleuths. What I said is that we do not know what that means for performance if true. AMD was targeting all of Nvidia's GPU's in the 40 series. Maybe that would mean the 7900xtx would have been much better than a 4080/super and behind the 4090.

Come back when you have an AM5 setup. Your card is way too much performance for your PCI Express bus and your ancient CPU.

I personally think BF5 or BF2042 are good games to see real time what your GPU core clock is running while gaming. Even those games are too much for an 8350.

 

[tajoh111]

It makes sense to delay it to next year. The 7800xt and 7900GRE are AMD's newest products and likely perform similarly with the 8700xt range. A 240mm2 monolith on n4p is not getting close to a 7900 xtx particularly with a 256bit 18gbps memory. I am guessing 7800xt+10%.

240mm2 + 10% performance improvement vs a 200mm2 of pure logic + 146mm2(memory controller + cache) is a substantial and good improvement in terms of architecture when based on largely the same process. But it isn't a terrible exciting product and will launch too late for laptops where it will shine best. As a result of missing Zen 5 laptops and Lunar lake laptops, it doesn't matter too much if AMD ships RDNA4 this year. AMD has said on the record they expect discrete sales to worsen in the second half of 2024. AMD just taking a playbook out of the bulldozers days and making cuts where the least money is made.

With the generally poor sales and low total addressable market for discrete GPU's(particularly for Radeon cards), if any department was going to get cuts, it would be Radeon. When AMD's Radeon is doing great, it's bringing in 300-500 million a year, when they are doing crappy like now, they are probably bringing in 200-300 million. Not enough.

No way does AMD have enough resources to accelerate their datacenter GPU products without taking some cuts in some departments. Any delays may also help AMD iron out any software bugs.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Here's the PCIE feature test, kinda shows that PCIE selling point. But the point was the frequency and bottleneck.

View attachment 100699View attachment 100700

You need to click on the Metrics tab in your screen shot. You have the tuning tab selected. Play a game and post a screen shot of the GPU clock speed while gaming. You can unlock monitoring options in the tracking tab to the far right. GPU temps, utilization and GPU speed if it's not already unlocked. Adrenaline will show real world GPU clock speeds while gaming.

 

[Mahboi]

It makes sense to delay it to next year. The 7800xt and 7900GRE are AMD's newest products and likely perform similarly with the 8700xt range. A 240mm2 monolith on n4p is not getting close to a 7900 xtx particularly with a 256bit 18gbps memory. I am guessing 7800xt+10%.

LOOOOOOOOL
Absolutely not even close, the 8700 XT is going to be closer to the XTX than either of those.

We expect something like 5-10% above 7900 xt with 4070 Ti tier raytracing (which is better than XTX, even if it's not impressive).

With the generally poor sales and low total addressable market for discrete GPU's(particularly for Radeon cards), if any department was going to get cuts, it would be Radeon. When AMD's Radeon is doing great, it's bringing in 300-500 million a year, when they are doing crappy like now, they are probably bringing in 200-300 million. Not enough.

MI300, end of fantasy.

No way does AMD have enough resources to accelerate their datacenter GPU products without taking some cuts in some departments. Any delays may also help AMD iron out any software bugs.

Did you get that from a leaflet given at the Nvidia showroom?
Everything is so wrong, it's like I'm reading Reddit.

 

[DaaQ]

What people do not seem to understand is silicon. A few months ago forum members believed TSMC 5nm silicon was all the same. It's not and they released newer versions of silicon based on the 5nm platform that have vastly different performance/power differences.

In October 2021, TSMC introduced a new member of its "5 nm" process family: N4P. Compared to N5, the node offered 11% higher performance (6% higher vs N4), 22% higher power efficiency, 6% higher transistor density and lower mask count. TSMC expected first tapeouts by the second half of 2022

There is no clock regression with RDNA3 vs RDNA4 because both processes are on 5nm silicon. If anything the newer 5nm process will clock better and not worse.

Now to the broken RDNA3 architecture where 20-30% of the GPU was non functioning. When RDNA4 was developed, are they basing the performance metrics on what RDNA3 was supposed to be or what the real world performance of the flawed silicon had. Again, not factoring in specific GPU's 7900xtx/7900xt/7800xt but questioning the uplift in gen vs gen performance gains in power and efficiency. Even if you halve the GPU's, you would still have the same ratio of performance based on the GPU metrics at a reduced level based on GPU die size.

The 7800xt uses 252-268 watts of power under load while gaming heavy. If you take 22% off that alone, you would have power consumption of 202.8w if you had a 7800xt on N4P. I am using the middle number between 252 and 268w to get 260w minus 22%. That is still a bit higher than the 4070 but it's in the ballpark for efficiency. Then you add 11% of free performance based on N4P according to TSMC performance metrics of N4P. If AMD had a refresh of 7800xt with N4P, above would be what you should expect. It's for comparison purposes only.

So My point is even with a stripped down RDNA4. Should we not expect the 8800xtx to be close to if not equal or better than the 7900xtx? I am not accounting for any performance uplift between RDNA3 and RDNA or power efficiency that AMD is advertising in their RDNA4 GPU slides.

Finally I will add. I am speculating and not saying that I am right or wrong about RDNA4. I am just trying to figure out the future of AMD GPU's. I will add there is speculation that RDNA4 GPU core clocks will boost up to 3.2ghz. Remember when RDNA3 was announced? They said the GPU would clock up to 3ghz and it didn't. The reason has been speculated that RDNA3 was a broken but functional architecture. That is why I am speculating that a RDNA4 GPU could/should perform much better than RDNA3 if the architecture is fully functional and sound.

 

[DaaQ]

You need to click on the Metrics tab in your screen shot. You have the tuning tab selected. Play a game and post a screen shot of the GPU clock speed while gaming. You can unlock monitoring options in the tracking tab to the far right. GPU temps, utilization and GPU speed if it's not already unlocked. Adrenaline will show real world GPU clock speeds while gaming.

What game would you like? D4, BG3, Elden Ring, I also have The Witcher series, not sure if installed.

Would afterburner suffice? or only adrenaline metrics? You should know it's hard to catch a screen at max clock with how the algorithm works, which is why I posted HWinfo64 with the min avg max values shown.

LMK what game is preferable in the above and can I use afterburner or only want adrenaline? You could check the OCN thread.

EDIT: I say this because over there we have a person that says Kryosheet is crap. Which HWinfo shows different, and no pumpout. Then memJ temps are issues, but I am using Kritical thermal pads on the water block side, and again 86C is highest I've seen, I am getting 100% gpu, and not 100% cpu utilization, so make of that what you will. I also am not running stock cpu ram HT or FSB/bclock whatever they called it back then.

LMK if I should stay on the older driver or update as well. I did revert back but I suspect D4 new patch was at fault due to teleport crashing.

 

[jpiniero]

LOOOOOOOOL
Absolutely not even close, the 8700 XT is going to be closer to the XTX than either of those.

We expect something like 5-10% above 7900 xt with 4070 Ti tier raytracing (which is better than XTX, even if it's not impressive).

See I think the leakers are wrong about the performance.

But it isn't necessarily about performance if the delay ends up happening. It's more about getting RDNA2/3 supply gone so AMD doesn't have to eat the losses on it. And people are going to complain about the prices no matter what AMD ends up pricing RDNA4 at.

 

[Mahboi]

It's more about getting RDNA2/3 supply gone so AMD doesn't have to eat the losses on it.

Also irrelevant, they're not going away. They're already at all time low sales. They'll have some stock left since the trickle down isn't going to go away under any circumstances. Especially not if they wait until Blackwell.
They have a few months to empty stock, whatever's left after is a loss. Waiting for BW would also mean losing a lot more entry impact for RDNA 4 when they have no real advantage. Releasing the cards a 4-8 months early (depending on when NV releases 5060 Ti/5070) actually give a great entry window, waiting loses it only to ultimately sell very little RDNA 2 or 3.

Again the penny pincher mentality just doesn't get you any successes.

 

[Hans Gruber]

What game would you like? D4, BG3, Elden Ring, I also have The Witcher series, not sure if installed.

Would afterburner suffice? or only adrenaline metrics? You should know it's hard to catch a screen at max clock with how the algorithm works, which is why I posted HWinfo64 with the min avg max values shown.

LMK what game is preferable in the above and can I use afterburner or only want adrenaline? You could check the OCN thread.

EDIT: I say this because over there we have a person that says Kryosheet is crap. Which HWinfo shows different, and no pumpout. Then memJ temps are issues, but I am using Kritical thermal pads on the water block side, and again 86C is highest I've seen, I am getting 100% gpu, and not 100% cpu utilization, so make of that what you will. I also am not running stock cpu ram HT or FSB/bclock whatever they called it back then.

LMK if I should stay on the older driver or update as well. I did revert back but I suspect D4 new patch was at fault due to teleport crashing.

You are asking about games that are 10 years old. You need something that is newer. Pubg is a free game. That is good enough. I am guessing adrenaline will show 2600-2800mhz boost clocks. It's just a guess.

 

[jpiniero]

Also irrelevant, they're not going away. They're already at all time low sales.

I think they are trying to avoid making a bad situation worse. Like if they priced N48 very high to try to avoid killing N32 sales/prices, it'd sit on store shelves too.

Blackwell in a lot of ways is irrelevant to RDNA 4 since I wouldn't expect the price/$ to move much there in anything other than AI performance. Esp the 5/6/7 models.

 

[inquiss]

You are asking about games that are 10 years old. You need something that is newer. Pubg is a free game. That is good enough. I am guessing adrenaline will show 2600-2800mhz boost clocks. It's just a guess.

How time flies. Where have all the 10 years since Elden Ring was released gone?

 

[marees]

Oh wait, we have RGT confirming it, clearly going to be true.

I would rather trust wccftech than RGT. When was the last time he got anything right after infinity cache ?

Otoh, Past AMD roadmaps show RDNA 4 in H2 2024 & if I were an AMD shareholder, I would demand a rolling of few heads for this debacle (delay to 2025)

We expect something like 5-10% above 7900 xt

I expect just above 7900xt in raster. Definitely below 5% in best case.
In worst case if bottlenecked by memory speed(extremely likely) then below 7900xt

 

[nurturedhate]

You are asking about games that are 10 years old. You need something that is newer. Pubg is a free game. That is good enough. I am guessing adrenaline will show 2600-2800mhz boost clocks. It's just a guess.

You complain about 10yr old games and then proceed to tell him to use an 8yr old game instead... I mean.. Just wow...

 

[marees]

MLID also confirms that no news from AIBs/board partners from computex on RDNA 4 launching before blackwell 🤔

 

[marees]

The 3 things that make me worried that could delay RDNA 4 are:

1) AMD is readying FSR 4 with AI upscaling & wants to launch RDNA 4 along with it
2) overstock of RDNA 3 (should not have happened if AMD had learnt lessons from RDNA 2 overstock debacle)
3) unsold RDNA 2 — for ex: the 6800 selling for $360 in NewEgg. (Should not be a major concern as most Navi 21 is sold out.)

On the pro side:
1) the 7900 GRE is being discounted to $510. Surely it is more profitable to sell navi 48 for $550-$600 (unless there is tons of 7900 GRE /navi 31 sitting around ??)
2) already the 7700xt has been discounted to $350 a few times. That means AMD can sell both navi 44 (=4060 ti for $300) & navi 48 (=7900xt/4070 ti super for $550 to $600), even if navi 32 remains in stock

2a) looks like 7900 GRE stock is still on shelves. RDNA 4 launch can happen only after this stock is exhausted
2b) 7700xt / 7800xt stock situation should not impact RDNA 4 launch as navi 48 & 44 should sandwich the 2 cards

3) RDNA 2 stocks finally seem to be drying up. Hallelujah

1) FSR 4 is the real wildcard here. I have no idea if RDNA 4 would support AI upscaling but it is a reasonable guess based on PS5 pro rumours.

 

[Hans Gruber]

You complain about 10yr old games and then proceed to tell him to use an 8yr old game instead... I mean.. Just wow...

That's like telling someone with a musket not to show up at a gun fight in modern times. I suggested any of the EA Battlefield games in a earlier post. I was giving an free option. Would you suggest CS2 instead?

 

[SolidQ]

.a big rumour that unless the source gets specified, could just be some troll that threw that out for funs

I think we're going to see in 2 month situation.
Dropped to 12%. I think it's reduce shelves and prepparing for RDNA4, also 7600 can't compete vs 4060m, while 6600 was competive

 

[soresu]

Interesting about this nu RDNA3+ GPU Phoronix is posting:

New AMD RDNA 3.5 GPU Target "GFX1152" Appears In Open-Source Linux Driver - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Seems like a new semi custom job in the wild.

 

[marees]

Interesting about this nu RDNA3+ GPU Phoronix is posting:

New AMD RDNA 3.5 GPU Target "GFX1152" Appears In Open-Source Linux Driver - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Seems like a new semi custom job in the wild.

4x zen 5 + 4x zen 5c + 4x RDNA 3.5 wgp ( 8 CU )

Kraken Point

 

[MrTeal]

That's like telling someone with a musket not to show up at a gun fight in modern times. I suggested any of the EA Battlefield games in a earlier post. I was giving an free option. Would you suggest CS2 instead?

Elden Ring is a 2022 game, and Baldur's Gate 3 isn't even a full year old. They're more than valid tests.

 

[BurnItDwn]

yesterday Moore's Law is Dead talked a bit about RDNA 4. Likely Dec 2024, but Nov possible.

 

[soresu]

4x zen 5 + 4x zen 5c + 4x RDNA 3.5 wgp ( 8 CU )

Ah ye I forgot about that one.

 

[soresu]

yesterday Moore's Law is Dead talked a bit about RDNA 4. Likely Dec 2024, but Nov possible.

If you want to talk about his speculation by all means, but don't link the video here, it's basically just peddling his channel.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

If you want to talk about his speculation by all means, but don't link the video here, it's basically just peddling his channel.

Well he was right about Zen5's IPC boost.