Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[dr1337]

So many games can barely manage a workable frame rate at 4K.

I've been gaming at 4k120hz since october 2020 and I still don't know why people have this opinion. Maybe if you only play games like cyberpunk, cities skylines 2, or anything else that isn't optimized most modern cards don't struggle at 4k let alone good FPS.

If I could do it with a 580 at low settings, and with a 6900xt at high/ultra settings, RDNA4 with a 80cu+ card will easily be able to kiss the 8k ceiling.

I don't agree that graphics have peaked, to be frank I think artists have peaked.

IMHO they could probably just stop now with the current state of the art for HMD displays if they could just find a way to pack the pixels closer together and eliminate that issue.

Interestingly it seems like DMD MEMS projection does not suffer from screen door.

My buddies odyssey+ with the SDE filter was nice, but it was still so obvious that the resolution was low. Simply having smaller/closer pixels doesn't solve the problem. I barely see SDE in my index but I see a ton of aliasing even at 150% res.

Resolution will always matter until pixel densities get close to matching the actual way things are rendered in reality, and for VR especially that means way higher res than 4k.

I will say too that VR needs a ton of pixels but I also think that foveated rendering will solve most of the performance problem. As long as the hardware can support 2x 16k screens it wont actually have to render at that resolution except for a tiny sliver where your eyes are looking.

 

[soresu]

I've been gaming at 4k120hz since october 2020

I was talking about consoles and the ridiculous joke of saying PS5 was 8K capable when it struggles with playable 4K on some titles.

I will say too that VR needs a ton of pixels but I also think that foveated rendering will solve most of the performance problem

Agree 100% about foveated rendering, though 16K is not being realistic.

Not only foveated rendering, but also foveated compression in the display IO standards to reduce power.

This is definitely a future feature of eDP if it isn't already in there.

Also vis a vis foveated rendering changes are afoot in eye tracking land to reduce sensor size (thickness at least) with metalenses.

It might even reduce cost too if metalenses can be produced cheaper than the current convential ones - which could possibly bring ET/FR costs closer to Quest standard price range.

 

[jpiniero]

Funny you mention VR. PSVR2 is pretty much dead. Sony even felt like it needed to make it PC compatible to help unload the supply.

 

[soresu]

Resolution will always matter until pixel densities get close to matching the actual way things are rendered in reality, and for VR especially that means way higher res than 4k.

IMHO this is the one place that I truly endorse upscaling, because past 4K you aren't really getting much more detail - and the higher resolution is really just addressing the deficiencies of the display.

8K+ textures on the other hand have plenty of benefits, so more compression never goes amiss.

 

[Aapje]

I will say too that VR needs a ton of pixels but I also think that foveated rendering will solve most of the performance problem. As long as the hardware can support 2x 16k screens it wont actually have to render at that resolution except for a tiny sliver where your eyes are looking.

Unfortunately, current eye tracking technology is fairly crude, so foveated rendering actually needs to render a substantially larger region than the high-resolution region of your vision. And the rest of the screen still needs to be rendered in low resolution.

All in all, it helps, but it is far from a panacea that makes even a 4090 capable of maxxing out current top tier headsets, let alone future headsets. For example, Pimax is holding back on the 12K headset in part because there is no video card capable of driving it.

 

[eek2121]

hot take but graphics peaked. It’s time for devs to make more creative games.

I’ll reserve my comment about the state of Ray tracing after Blackwell launches.

Raster has for sure, but Path Tracing and Ray Tracing have not and a whole bunch of innovation related to AI is happening in the 3D graphics space as we speak.

It is a shame designing and manufacturing chips is so expensive these days. Someone really needs to tear the bandaid off and build a card optimized solely around path tracing. Forget traditional raster. Make a separate add in card or add in a second chip for raster.

I was talking about consoles and the ridiculous joke of saying PS5 was 8K capable when it struggles with playable 4K on some titles.

4k is just a display mode. The PS5 can do 4k and probably even 8k. It can even render triangles at those resolutions. The question is how many triangles. Same with textures. 3D graphics are a big balancing act. I could throw together a simple app that renders a spinning cube in 8k that would probably run on anything made in the past 5-10 years. It may even run at 60fps! Performance only tanks once you start adding in complex shaders, high res textures, more triangles, etc.

I bring this up because that is why consoles often don’t render in true 4k. They know people will notice muddy textures or stick figure models more than a slightly lower resolution.

Upscaling tech like FSR and DLSS are muddying the waters a bit more, especially with the invention of the NPU, because now developers can have both with very little degradation in image quality.

If there is a next gen console, I suspect the output resolution won’t matter any more. You will get 60fps at whatever resolution you want. The game will just look terrible if upscaled too much.

I initially was not a fan of upscaling tech, but I will admit I am warming up to it now that a separate chip can be used. Instead of needing the latest, fastest GPU, you just need a “good enough” GPU, good NPU, and a quality upscaling algorithm.

HOPEFULLY as a result of this, GPUs can get smaller, more power efficient, and will become cheaper as a result.

EDIT: Oh and someone could absolutely make a game designed for 8k60 for the PS5 today. It just wouldn’t look all that great. (note: I have worked on 3D graphics and even built an engine, but i have zero console experience)

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I guess AMD will do a RX 74/300 based on N33 to compensate for RDNA 4 slip up to 2025

 

[marees]

I guess AMD will do a RX 74/300 based on N33 to compensate for RDNA 4 slip up to 2025

A cut down 6nm navi 33 is way below the range of 4nm navi 44

This is likely a replacement for 7nm navi 23

Does this mean RDNA 2 stocks might finally clear from the shelves. Damn, how time flies !!!

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

A cut down 6nm navi 33 is way below the range of 4nm navi 44

This is likely a replacement for 7nm navi 23

Does this mean RDNA 2 stocks might finally clear from the shelves. Damn, how time flies !!!

I think a cut down N33 is smart. And with N33, AMD cutdown options are more limited. I'm guessing 7400 will be 24 CU 96-bit 16MB IF.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Will all of the RDNA4 parts be on (4nm) N4 or N4P this time around?

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Will all of the RDNA4 parts be on (4nm) N4 or N4P this time around?

N4P afaik

 

[marees]

AMD gamescom 2024 event planned for Aug-23

~VideoCardz via Asus

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821117215703216290

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD gamescom 2024 event planned for Aug-23

What if RDNA4 and 9800X3D both get announced at that event!

That would be a powerful "AMD Advantage" marketing moment.

 

[jpiniero]

What if RDNA4 and 9800X3D both get announced at that event!

That would be a powerful "AMD Advantage" marketing moment.

Best I can do is 6 GB Navi 33 and a eGPU dock with Navi 32?

 

[gdansk]

What if RDNA4 and 9800X3D both get announced at that event!

I don't think either is happening then. Both are probably CES.

 

[Jaskalas]

I've been gaming at 4k120hz since october 2020 and I still don't know why people have this opinion.

8gb GPU says hi.
I only just made the leap to 1440p two years ago. And I'll need a much stronger GPU just to settle in and feel comfortable. Console ports these past two years have been a killer.

 

[dr1337]

8gb GPU says hi.
I only just made the leap to 1440p two years ago. And I'll need a much stronger GPU just to settle in and feel comfortable. Console ports these past two years have been a killer.

Oh I was using 8gb until 2022, and for me turning down settings was always better than turning down resolution. And yeah I did get a 6900xt because new games esp in VR were getting harder to run, still no regrets, 4k looks so much better than 1440p even in old games. And like, 4k is so much better for productivity and text and literally everything else done on a computer in general, pixel density isn't a myth though I will say, seeing is believing.

 

[Mahboi]

N4P afaik

I'm getting a lingering, ever-so-slightly cold sweat, feeling that this node is going to accompany AMD for a very, very long time. Like 2028-9 for the products that they'll keep making on it, like RDNA 3.5.
Well, at least it's low power, decent area, my type of thing.

 

[marees]

I'm getting a lingering, ever-so-slightly cold sweat, feeling that this node is going to accompany AMD for a very, very long time. Like 2028-9 for the products that they'll keep making on it, like RDNA 3.5.
Well, at least it's low power, decent area, my type of thing.

Don't forget TSMC 6nm/7nm. It is selling on a discount because xbox/PS are in a recession unlike Apple, Nvdia, Qualcomm, Intel, AMD data centre etc

One thing to lookout for is a future chromebook APU, sonoma valley 4x zen 5c on samsung 4nm. (If Samsung can get its shit together finally)

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I wonder what RX 7400 means for Navi 44. Before, I was expecting AMD to have a $199 RX 8600 to be the perf/$ GPU of choice. That would be feasible given N44 is a 130mm² die.

But, now, RX 7400 may slot into the <$200 market. So I'm guessing N44 will be >$200? Certainly would be expensive for such small die.

 

[Mahboi]

I wonder what RX 7400 means for Navi 44. Before, I was expecting AMD to have a $199 RX 8600 to be the perf/$ GPU of choice. That would be feasible given N44 is a 130mm² die.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, AMD has been extremely SKU spammy recently (freaking 5800XT/5900XT are poster children there). Probably they just want to fling another SKU for 6 months till RDNA 4.

But, now, RX 7400 may slot into the <$200 market. So I'm guessing N44 will be >$200? Certainly would be expensive for such small die.

I would however expect them to sell N44 for >$200.

 

[marees]

I wonder what RX 7400 means for Navi 44. Before, I was expecting AMD to have a $199 RX 8600 to be the perf/$ GPU of choice. That would be feasible given N44 is a 130mm² die.

But, now, RX 7400 may slot into the <$200 market. So I'm guessing N44 will be >$200? Certainly would be expensive for such small die.

I am guessing AMD is replacing 7nm navi 23 with cut down 6nm navi 33

I expect navi 44 to match 4060 ti 8gb in all aspects.
For what price do you expect AMD to sell a 4060 ti 8gb ?

 

[marees]

I am guessing AMD is replacing 7nm navi 23 with cut down 6nm navi 33

I expect navi 44 to match 4060 ti 8gb in all aspects.
For what price do you expect AMD to sell a 4060 ti 8gb ?

My personal expectation is (assuming navi 32 continues to sell alongside RDNA 4)

$125 6400xt
Cut down 6gb n33
Cut down 8gb n33
$200 7600

$240 for cut down 8gb navi 44
$300 for full navi 44

$350 7700xt
$450 7800xt

$480 for cut down 16gb navi 48
$550 for full navi 48

$600 7900xt
$700+ 7900xtx

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I am guessing AMD is replacing 7nm navi 23 with cut down 6nm navi 33

That would make sense.

For what price do you expect AMD to sell a 4060 ti 8gb ?

I would however expect them to sell N44 for >$200.

>$200 for a 130mm²🤯

Guess this old mind of mine needs to get used to such pricing. 10 to 15 years ago, 130mm² was budget low-end dies for cheap prices hahaha.

 

[Mahboi]

>$200 for a 130mm²🤯

Guess this old mind of mine needs to get used to such pricing. 10 to 15 years ago, 130mm² was budget low-end dies for cheap prices hahaha.

We live in sad times...Nvidia's domination of the market provides no incentive to lower prices from AMD since they convinced every single sheeple that buying AMD is for idiots. Normies won't shift no matter the price, so they might as well keep the price high and wait for a knockout position. It's light jabs to Nvidia until an opening comes.
Also Lisa's just greedy. Muh margins forever. And Jensen is the greediest.