Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[In2Photos]

These didn't win. Not a real halo.

They didn't, AMD was running better value thinner margin offerings to gain no marketshare.
It was never a sustainable play.

LOL, now you're moving the goal post. There's a difference between gaining market share and "selling 3 units".

 

[poke01]

LOL, now you're moving the goal post. There's a difference between gaining market share and "selling 3 units".

Maybe gaining market share for adroc is selling more than 3 units?

 

[Thunder 57]

These didn't win. Not a real halo.

They didn't, AMD was running better value thinner margin offerings to gain no marketshare.
It was never a sustainable play.

Might want to look at the 6950XT numbers again. At worst it was a tie. But don't let the truth get in the way.

 

[poke01]

Might want to look at the 6950XT numbers again. At worst it was a tie. But don't let the truth get in the way.

Plus it was more efficient card thanks to TSMC and RDNA2

 

[adroc_thurston]

There's a difference between gaining market share and "selling 3 units".

It's the same since the net profit is the same.
a) You nuke margins to gain MSS.
b) you gain no MSS
c) ?????????
d) PROFIT

Might want to look at the 6950XT numbers again

It didn't win anything, that's kinda the problem. Good product? Yea. Winner? No.

At worst it was a tie.

It lost to 3090ti, particularly in 4k, because they refused to ship a 384b die with moar die area.
It was a good half-measure, but still a half-measure.
To break the cycle, they need a real winner.
Something Nvidia can't build.

 

[itsmydamnation]

man the cope in this thread is insane , adrocs right , just look at history.

Then we have people taking obviously figurative things literally.

People are over estimating the market share gain AMD will gain with a lower priceand under estimating the impact to net profit margin the high price will bring.

Gamers brought this on themselves , this BS started when NV bought Physx ( funny its coming back up now ) and NV learnt the real power of feature FOMO , every gen there is a largely useless feature thats rolled out that you must have , only to be discarded/ forgotten about 2 gens later. Now the buying/SI/brand behaviour is entrenched.

edit: this is the real difference between GPU and CPU , Intel never created the feature FOMO that NV has managed to whip up gen after gen.

 

[maddie]

man the cope in this thread is insane , adrocs right , just look at history.

Then we have people taking obviously figurative things literally.

People are over estimating the market share gain AMD will gain with a lower priceand under estimating the impact to net profit margin the high price will bring.

Gamers brought this on themselves , this BS started when NV bought Physx ( funny its coming back up now ) and NV learnt the real power of feature FOMO , every gen there is a largely useless feature thats rolled out that you must have , only to be discarded/ forgotten about 2 gens later. Now the buying/SI/brand behaviour is entrenched.

edit: this is the real difference between GPU and CPU , Intel never created the feature FOMO that NV has managed to whip up gen after gen.

You and others are basically arguing that AMD is in a perfect position re: price, margin and marketshare.

Any increase in price will be bad and any decrease in price will also be bad.

Putting it diplomatically, this seems a bit of strange reasoning.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

man the cope in this thread is insane , adrocs right , just look at history.

Then we have people taking obviously figurative things literally.

People are over estimating the market share gain AMD will gain with a lower priceand under estimating the impact to net profit margin the high price will bring.

Gamers brought this on themselves , this BS started when NV bought Physx ( funny its coming back up now ) and NV learnt the real power of feature FOMO , every gen there is a largely useless feature thats rolled out that you must have , only to be discarded/ forgotten about 2 gens later. Now the buying/SI/brand behaviour is entrenched.

edit: this is the real difference between GPU and CPU , Intel never created the feature FOMO that NV has managed to whip up gen after gen.

- I am stealing the bolded verbatim (and uncredited ) wherever else I post, just FYI.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You and others are basically arguing that AMD is in a perfect position re: price, margin and marketshare.

Well, yeah. At least they're making ok opinc now.

Any increase in price will be bad and any decrease in price will also be bad.

YES.
Price decrease would just cut into your margin, then force NV pricecuts and you're back to #1.

 

[GTracing]

man the cope in this thread is insane , adrocs right , just look at history.

Is he? AMD's two best selling generations in the past 10 years were Polaris/Vega and RDNA1, and those generations were the least competitive in the high end. If anything, it looks like there's a negative correlation between AMD competing in the high end and them gaining market-share.



article

 

[MrTeal]

You and others are basically arguing that AMD is in a perfect position re: price, margin and marketshare.

Any increase in price will be bad and any decrease in price will also be bad.

Putting it diplomatically, this seems a bit of strange reasoning.

They're partially right. AMD probably would increase their market share and substantially if they launched N48 at the $599 and $499point.
Wouldn't matter though. The average gamer might hold their nose now and buy a 9700XT for 600 bucks if the 5070 Ti is selling at 900 and never in stock, but it's unlikely to translate into much loyalty. In two years when we get the next generation people will choose NV if given the choice.

 

[jpiniero]

Is he? AMD's two best selling generations in the past 10 years were Polaris/Vega and RDNA1, and those generations were the least competitive in the high end. If anything, it looks like there's a negative correlation between AMD competing in the high end and them gaining market-share.

View attachment 117631

article

No "AI Hype" label?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Is he?

yea.

Polaris/Vega

loss leaders.

RDNA1

Also very thin margin.

AMD probably would increase their market share and substantially if they launched N48 at the $599 and $499point.

It would just force NV pricecuts/new SKUs.
harder for Blackwell since the baseline chops are very generous as is, but they'll manage.

but it's unlikely to translate into much loyalty.

AMD has no graphics brand to be loyal to.

 

[GTracing]

yea.

loss leaders.

Also very thin margin.

You claimed that AMD cards don't sell because they don't have a halo product. That chart directly contradicts that notion.

 

[In2Photos]

You claimed that AMD cards don't sell because they don't have a halo product. That chart directly contradicts that notion.

Yeah, he just keeps moving the goal post, arguing out of both sides of his mouth.

 

[GTracing]

They don't, they shipped loss leaders to no avail.

Do you know what a loss leader is? A loss leader is a product that loses money. AMD isn't losing money on every GPU sold.

 

[gdansk]

He does have a point that AMD's goal is to avoid Nvidia price cuts. Taking 15% of the market isn't fatal if the margin is high enough and the fixed costs low enough (they killed all but two chips, so it probably is this time).

But Nvidia left plenty of room for AMD to set a fake MSRP well below $750. E.g. Nvidia won't be reducing 5070 Ti price to compete with a $600-650 card with no DLSS premium.

If it is $750 Radeon really are trying to kill themselves. Don't think they can get even 15% with that.

 

[gaav87]

They're partially right. AMD probably would increase their market share and substantially if they launched N48 at the $599 and $499point.
Wouldn't matter though. The average gamer might hold their nose now and buy a 9700XT for 600 bucks if the 5070 Ti is selling at 900 and never in stock, but it's unlikely to translate into much loyalty. In two years when we get the next generation people will choose NV if given the choice.

Depends on how FSR4 and drivers will be. Also the new encoder i heard they will introduce 10bit HEVC 4:2:2 but idk if its just, a rumor.. 4:2;2 would bring some customers.

 

[Thunder 57]

Do you know what a loss leader is? A loss leader is a product that loses money. AMD isn't losing money on every GPU sold.

Yes, to get you in the door to buy other prodcuts that make money. How does that work if you are likely only buying one video card? Or multiples of the same? Just lose money on each one in the hopes of making it up somewhere else? Makes no sense.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Just lose money on each one in the hopes of making it up somewhere else?

You're supposed to gain MSS to hike the ASPs next gen, netting your profit.
Radeon just always failed at step 1, since MSS gains were mid single digits (generously).

 

[Thunder 57]

It would just force NV pricecuts/new SKUs.
harder for Blackwell since the baseline chops are very generous as is, but they'll manage.

Have you seen the real prices of 5070 Ti today? A 9070XT will sell even if its real price is $750.

 

[Thunder 57]

You're supposed to gain MSS to hike the ASPs next gen, netting your profit.
Radeon just always failed at step 1, since MSS gains were mid single digits (generously).

But if there is no brand loyalty as you claim, how can they ever raise ASP's?

 

[gdansk]

Depends on how FSR4

I don't think it does. Even if it is good enough the perception behind DLSS is unbeatable. More games support it and Nvidia now has a track record of bringing DLSS updates to older cards while AMD will not.

FSR4 is a bonus but it won't move the average selling price of Radeon upward. Maybe when it has a track record of improving even on older cards it can attain "good enough and supported". But AMD has to work on ML FSR for years to get positive perception like DLSS.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Have you seen the real prices of 5070 Ti today? A 9070XT will sell even if its real price is $750.

You don't bet on Nvidia magically having no supply forever.

But if there is no brand loyalty as you claim, how can they ever raise ASP's?

That's literally the point, every ATi/AMD attempt to cultivate brand loyalty with unbeatable value offerings ended with NV pricecuts. And so the status quo was maintained.

Even if it is good enough the perception behind DLSS is unbeatable.

takes 3 to 5 shill foundry shill videos with annoying pixel peeping to make FSR4 have good perception.
They only have to pay them off.

 

[gaav87]

HEVC 4:2:2 on rx7000 and newer or am i reading this wrong ?​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1892303189602394430

Agility SDK 1.716.0-preview: New D3D12 Video Encode Features - DirectX Developer Blog

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devblogs.microsoft.com