Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Did AMD delay just to build Stock? That might be their main goal, to enter the Market with a reasonably priced product with high Supply where competitor low Supply limits competition. Temporarily they can grab Marketshare and even take some Sales that were going to go NVidia's way.

I read software is the hold up. FSR 4 needed more time in the oven. Based on AMD's track record, some software/drivers will still be undercooked at launch. Won't matter, scalper bots will probably gobble up all of the stock lickity split.

 

[sandorski]

I read software is the hold up. FSR 4 needed more time in the oven. Based on AMD's track record, some software/drivers will still be undercooked at launch. Won't matter, scalper bots will probably gobble up all of the stock lickity split.

Hopefully they do have more Stock though. The opportunity is there.

 

[gaav87]

Nope that was the target for N48

Well well guess we will see 9070xt 3Ghz edition...
And some platinum samples hitting 3.5 xD

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hopefully they do have more Stock though. The opportunity is there.

Word has it some retailers already had stock when the delay happened. With a couple of extra months tacked on, you would hope there will be a good number of models for sale. Real question is if the AIBs and retailers will do the scalping or not. The pandemic has taught them to be more opportunistic.

 

[Elfear]

HWUB suggesting the 9070XT should be $550 max seems on the low side. Don't get me wrong, as a consumer I would love to see that price. Get us back to sane mid/high end pricing.

Still seems like HWUB is overvaluing Nvidia's feature set though. That would be a 27% price reduction vs the 5070Ti fake MSRP. Are they suggesting that would be the ticket to increasing AMD's market share or to just bring them into parity with price & feature set value?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Are they suggesting that would be the ticket to increasing AMD's market share or to just bring them into parity with price & feature set value?

They're delusional.

 

[gdansk]

HWUB is overvaluing Nvidia's feature set

No, it's gamers that do. HWUB is simply reflecting that.
But it's likely AMD will not be at a price where HWUB can recommend them.

 

[inquiss]

No, it's gamers that do. HWUB is simply reflecting that.
But it's likely AMD will not be at a price where HWUB can recommend them.

Gamers are such a dumb demographic. They deserve high prices. I'd like AMD to do well, but if they don't do well, gamers will get the prices and value they deserve. Win win.

 

[gaav87]

They're delusional.

Why do you think 749$ is a good price ?
Cheaper packaging vs 7800xt almost same die cost, same vram but now its cheaper, same pcb/vrm as rx7900gre

 

[jpiniero]

As for N44... Sony said in their financial report that hardware costs are coming down. Now I don't know if that specifically means that N6 specifically is getting cheaper... but sounds like it.

With seemingly no dGPU deals, I don't think AMD is going to be in any rush to bring it out.

 

[inquiss]

Why do you think 749$ is a good price ?
Cheaper packaging vs 7800xt almost same die cost, same vram but now its cheaper, same pcb/vrm as rx7900gre

I see you're a fan of cost plus pricing. It's not irrelevant of course, but it's also not the main determining factor of the price here.

 

[Win2012R2]

HWUB is simply reflecting that.

And if the gamers are wrong, why are they doing it - because they get money (via hardware that drives views) from Nvidia?

Either way it should not be up to HWUB or any "influencer" to decide or try to influence at what price AMD should be selling their hardware - if Radeon never makes good profits then they'll never do better hardware, that is what HWUB should be explaining to gamers.

 

[gaav87]

I see you're a fan of cost plus pricing. It's not irrelevant of course, but it's also not the main determining factor of the price here.

No im happy at 579-649$ region anything higher i think is ridiculous. I want amd to get some RnD money im not delusional like some people with 399-499$

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Gamers are such a dumb demographic. They deserve high prices. I'd like AMD to do well, but if they don't do well, gamers will get the prices and value they deserve. Win win.

Exactly. They are whinging like petulant children in all of the Reddit subs, but will buy the cards anyways. Many even paying the scalpers for them. The number of posts I've seen where they admit to buying a 30 series during the pandemic for up to double MSRP is depressing.

 

[Win2012R2]

I want amd to get some RnD money

You need to look at average selling price over time of SKU - launch price is likely to be the high point they ever get

 

[inquiss]

No im happy at 579-649$ region anything higher i think is ridiculous. I want amd to get some RnD money im not delusional like some people with 399-499$

Ridiculous? I mean, what you're saying makes sense for you i.e. you would not buy that GPU at that price. Fair enough. However... Nvidia is the market leader and they set the pricing. AMD can't set the market pricing so they follow. What's the point in selling out all of your product at low prices and then Nvidia takes all the profit in the market selling the only available cards as more expensive because you're selling out. If you think pricing is ridiculous that's on Nvidia, not really AMD.

 

[inquiss]

Exactly. They are whinging like petulant children in all of the Reddit subs, but will buy the cards anyways. Many even paying the scalpers for them. The number of posts I've seen where they admit to buying a 30 series during the pandemic for up to double MSRP is depressing.

View attachment 117870

Bingo

 

[Win2012R2]

What's the point in selling out all of your product at low prices and then Nvidia takes all the profit in the market selling

HWUB will give you some brownie points and will make millions from future deals with Nvidia? Seems worth it

 

[Kronos1996]

Allegedly 350mm2 with 53.9B xtors. It’s a dense boy. I wonder how they improved the density so much…

https://videocardz.com/pixel/amd-navi-48-rdna4-gpu-has-53-9-billion-transistors-more-than-nvidia-gb203

Zen 5 CCD is ~27% denser than Zen 4 on a similar node. I think most of that came from cutting the L3 cache size in half thanks to TSMC FinFlex?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You need to look at average selling price over time of SKU - launch price is likely to be the high point they ever get

That's been difficult to do since late 2017. Going back to Polaris https://www.zdnet.com/finance/blockchain/cryptocurrency-miners-bought-3-million-gpus-in-2017/ mining, the pandemic, and now even A.I. have all contributed to distorting the market. MSRP has been fake news almost as often as not since then. We had over a year of it the first time? Then 2 years+ during human malware. Now we are back there again for who knows how long.

 

[gaav87]

Ridiculous? I mean, what you're saying makes sense for you i.e. you would not buy that GPU at that price. Fair enough. However... Nvidia is the market leader and they set the pricing. AMD can't set the market pricing so they follow. What's the point in selling out all of your product at low prices and then Nvidia takes all the profit in the market selling the only available cards as more expensive because you're selling out. If you think pricing is ridiculous that's on Nvidia, not really AMD.

Dude please 770$ no vat... I hope i did not wait 3 months for same performance for HIGHER price
As 649$ for reaper would mean 800$+ for red devil/nitro+/taichi/xfx
Thats why i said anything over 649$ is delusional.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I think most of that came from cutting the L3 cache density in half thanks to TSMC FinFlex?

Finflex does not exist on any N4 derivative.

 

[Win2012R2]

That's been difficult to do since late 2017.

No company can gamble on some thing that will increase price later, launch price has to be assumed in projections as the high point as this is where most desperate buyers go for it.

 

[Josh128]

Dude please 770$ no vat... I hope i did not wait 3 months for same performance for HIGHER price
As 649$ for reaper would mean 800$+ for red devil/nitro+/taichi/xfx
Thats why i said anything over 649$ is delusional.

View attachment 117871

It will be a bonafide miracle if XT is available (actually purchasable) for less than $699 USD. Dont expect better than that.

 

[gdansk]

Zen 5 CCD is ~27% denser than Zen 4 on a similar node. I think most of that came from cutting the L3 cache density in half thanks to TSMC FinFlex?

No. Mainly cache shrink. From 8t to 6t and so on. ISSCC slides have some more info.

For RDNA4 I just think the 350mm² measurements are wrong. Transistor count is not, but it's higher because the die is 380mm²+.