Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[Dezii90]

$599 is better than I expected. Looks like amd finally read the room and stuck the landing. Radeon is seriously trying this time around

 

[Keller_TT]

VR needs to solve the issue of not being a real market.

VR is just something magical in high fidelity sim racing. That's 80% of what I've been gaming for a long time. There are 3 ultra modern titles right now where the level of immersion and stereoscopic depth that you get while racing is just incomparable to even a triples set-up. There's no going back if you've had the taste of it in a high-end PC. I have a Meta Quest 3 headset now and will be upgrading that too this year.

I wouldn't bother with VR for anything else, except may be immerse into the magic of the planet and the universe where one can only dream of being present.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Radeon is seriously trying this time around

Navi4C would be alive if they were trying.

 

[kekframeX]

It was interesting watching the $699 speculations on here in the past month or two. The original prices of 9070XT series were at least $50 less than the current suggested prices. This is why some board partners pulled out. The initial expected generational performance uplift of Blackwell was at 2x, or at least 1.5x of what we are currently seeing. The underperformance of Blackwell has created some breathing room for slight upward adjustment of the 9070 prices.

The bewildering part of all these is that some tech reviewers are now coming out to falsely claim credit for advising on the 9070XT prices. I can be blunt and tell you that they were not a factor, at all (aside from rightly calling out how unimpressive Blackwell was).

 

[reaperrr3]

I just don't think AMD wants to sell any 9070's, same as 7700XT for sure and the 7900XT as well. For now we are supposed to use that to say, "why not $50 (probably $100+ for shiny) more for so much more performance? The 9070 isn't a good buy." So we see the product line start at $550 or whatever for our perception of value but don't really consider the $550 part. Win/Win for the marketing team, since they weren't given the mission to sell max number of cards anyway.

Well, instead of not wanting to sell them, I think it's rather:

"If you want best bang for buck, buy the more expensive card.
If you just want ~ >=5070 perf with better PPW and more VRAM, give us at least 5070 money."

Didn't AMD say their goal now was to grow market share. That really isn't achieved by only pushing to sell the most expensive card in the lineup.

They probably figured NV might drop the 5070 to 499 if the 9070 was priced too aggressively. There's only so much AMD can do without triggering NV to make moves that bring AMD back to square one, except at lower margin.

Also didn't they quickly drop the price on the 7700XT and 7900XT to about where people said it should be? If they didn't want to sell them, why drop the price. It just looks out of touch with market realities.

After a couple of months, but not in the first few weeks, I think.
I also don't think it helped the 7700XT that much vs. the 4060Ti-16G (more like, it was necessary to sell the 7700XT at all).
The 7700XT was just never that attractive of a card to begin with.

The 9070 has 16GB, isn't as bandwidth-starved and has much better PPW, so it's more like the 6800 in those regards, which was popular despite worse perf/$ than the 6800XT, too.

 

[Saylick]

From Chiphell:

 

[beginner99]

Giving 9070 a $50 cut vs the XT, is repeating the same mistake as the 7900 XT, and 7700XT. If AMD could learn one thing, it should be not to do this again...

So true. The 9070 has something going for it, the lower wattage leading to smaller designs but at just $50 less? not worth it. if they can't or don't want to do $499 they could at least do $529 so it's cheaper than a 5070 and a bigger difference to the XT. and if your msrp budget is $500 you might splurge $30 more.

 

[coercitiv]

If, by any stretch of imagination, AMD comes out with both a good price for the 9070 XT and the volumes to make that price stick, if I see anyone complain that the 9070 is $50 too expensive relative to the XT... I will personally wield the two biggest trouts in Internet history and will bring painful justice to your virtual faces.

Now I'll go make myself some coffee.

 

[marees]

So true. The 9070 has something going for it, the lower wattage leading to smaller designs but at just $50 less? not worth it. if they can't or don't want to do $499 they could at least do $529 so it's cheaper than a 5070 and a bigger difference to the XT. and if your msrp budget is $500 you might splurge $30 more.

Maybe they do a $539 ??

 

[Win2012R2]

Very nice, but (assuming yields are great) they should have just done single XT product and keep non-XT for later date.

Now give us juicy arch details...

 

[HuesToo4]

Wondering if they'll do a 12gb 192bit n48 card like 7900 gre sometime later, depending on the yields...

 

[marees]

Wondering if they'll do a 12gb 192bit n48 card like 7900 gre sometime later, depending on the yields...

That would be the 9060xt (probably 48 CUs) but don't expect it before Q3. (After all N32 stocks are sold out)

 

[uzzi38]

I am. And you're agreeing with me angrily for whatever reason. Nvidia features and brand can easily command a premium. That's that.

AMD pricing doesn't matter. They cannot price it low enough that people will be happy to buy it. If it's $500 people will come up with reasons, real and hypothetical, why they bought a RTX 5070 instead. At $650+ they still get the same people (those who prioritize raster value above all).

So in hindsight now, reading through comments online it looks like the majority of people on Reddit and Twitter are actually very happy with $599. Lots of very highly upvoted/liked posts of people saying they're very interested in that pricing.

Yes there are some few people who still think it should have been lower still, but they appear to be the minority.

So evidently, this didn't turn out to be true. The only concern now for me is if MSRP will be the same for the US: tariffs are the big concern.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Polaris itself gained no critical marketshare

Polaris increased AMD's dGPU marketshare from 20 to 30%, despite going against Pascal which was a damn good architecture.
There was also no halo product when they got such a massive marketshare increase.

High competitive pressure means fast competitive response

Again: Nvidia reducing prices with current wafer allocation will simply lead to more scalping done by AIBs, distribution and retailers.

Are you suggesting Nvidia is going to allocate more wafers towards smaller geforce chips with much lower margins and tell their B200 clients their lead times are increasing? Or even the GB202 products that also bring them a lot more returns?

You think shareholders would stand for Nvidia to sacrifice the their >90% revenue business so they can "kill" the competition on gaming dGPUs that make up 8% of their revenue?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Polaris increased AMD's dGPU marketshare from 20 to 30%, despite going against Pascal which was a damn good architecture.

Yeah at what cost.

Again: Nvidia reducing prices with current wafer allocation will simply lead to more scalping done by AIBs, distribution and retailers.

Ramping client Blackwell supply is trivial.

Are you suggesting Nvidia is going to allocate more wafers towards smaller geforce chips with much lower margins and tell their B200 clients their lead times are increasing?

B200 or any HPC part ever is not wafer-limited, it's packaging-constrained.

Or even the GB202 products that also bring them a lot more returns?

No one buys these? Especially in DC, where GDDR parts have woeful TCO.

You think shareholders would stand for Nvidia to sacrifice the their >90% revenue business so they can "kill" the competition on gaming dGPUs that make up 8% of their revenue?

Not their decision to make.

 

[gaav87]

Well 549$/599$
Whos laughing at my ferengi math now ? They got 50% margin and gamers are happy

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well 549$/599$
Whos laughing at my ferengi math now? They got 50% margin and gamers are happy

"Who you trying to get crazy with ése?
Don't you know I'm loco?"

Seriously though, good job applying the rules of acquisition. Try not to break your arm patting yourself on the back.

 

[NomanA]

Navi4C would be alive if they were trying.

You have been posting non-stop drivels for a while, but at least you make the point (however nonsensical) succinctly and in quite a confident manner, like you have just gotten up from an AMD board meeting.

Bringing R300 into this discussion of halo-cards is quite idiotic, as if that single slot ~$300 50-60W GPU (and 40% performance advantage to the competition) has any relevance to the 500-600W triple-slot $2500 behemoths of today.

The performance level at $450-650 (and 200-280W) is the key to fulfilling most of the gaming segments like how $300-450 used to be in early 2000s. If AMD has caught up to nVidia's RT performances at similar price and power consumption levels, then this new gen will absolutely sell and gain market share (not like R300 but still moving the needle) especially once 9060 arrives.

A $550-650 9070XT performing closer to 7900XTX level will be an extremely compelling product and a very nice performance increase to this pricing segment, assuming gamers can actually buy the cards.

 

[tsamolotoff]

f AMD has caught up to nVidia's RT performances at similar price and power consumption levels,

Nvidia pet studios would just add PT psycho premium plus mode that would be tailored to exploit weaknesses of AMD RTRT implementation and the gamers would still not buy it as in their beloved benchmark game the new Radeon is 3x slower than competition (1 fps instead of 3 fps), or it doesn't support the MANDATORY feature that no one needed a second ago. It is pointless to play if your opponent has the power to change the game-winning conditions at a whim.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Yeah at what cost.

AMD Reports Fourth Quarter and Annual 2017 Financial Results

Browse AMD’s company-wide and financial press releases.

ir.amd.com

2017 Annual Results

• Revenue of $5.33 billion, up 25 percent on an annual basis, was driven by an increase in the Computing and Graphics segment.
  
  

Quarterly Financial Segment Summary

• Computing and Graphics segment revenue was $958 million, up 60 percent year-over-year and 17 percent sequentially. The year-over-year and sequential increases were primarily driven by strong sales of Radeon graphics and Ryzen desktop processors.
  
  ◦ Operating income was $85 million, compared to an operating loss of $21 million in Q4 2016 and operating income of $70 million in Q3 2017.

I doubt AMD was making a lot of money from consoles in 2016-2017.

Sure looks like selling lots of GPUs with modest markups was making them money and turning the company around.

Because you can't really make any money if you don't sell your product in volume.

No one buys these?

No one buys the RTX5090 definitely wasn't on my bingo card for today.

This is just.. not true.

 

[Timorous]

No one buys the RTX5090 definitely wasn't on my bingo card for today.

This is just.. not true.

Can you buy something that is not in stock?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Deleted posts that are versus flame bait. And others that are personal attacks. Remember the first rule. If you don't know it?

First rule of fight club/tech forums: Attack the post not the poster. Ad hominem is the worst of the fallacies. If you are resorting to it, your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[marees]

I doubt AMD was making a lot of money from consoles in 2016-2017.

Just want to state: in 2014 AMD was close to bankruptcy. A 16 member bobcat/jaguar team saved the game for AMD with PS4

So I guess the gpu side is necessary for survival. But huge profits will come from AI/CUDA/C++ side (or strix halo kind of cards)

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I doubt AMD was making a lot of money from consoles in 2016-2017

Not to take away your point but 16-17 was PS4 peak sales year and XOne was still selling decently + revenue from 16nm Liverpool and Durango shrink and PS4 Pro and XOne X custom SoC manufacturing and development

 

[Joe NYC]

They're already throwing money at rebuilding their shader cores from scratch each gen.
What they need is balls.
They can ask Forrest Norrod to loan his idk. He won, and they didn't.

They are under new management...