Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[adroc_thurston]

in half year it will drop price like 7700XT

or they won't ship any.

 

[Keller_TT]

They can do it cause 5070 is poopoo.
Price the cutdown too well and NV will respond.

I'm also looking at the 5060 Ti 16 GB.
I think it'll be a 3070 Ti/6800 in raster and a good cut above for RT, and will likely launch for $449.
AMD won't have a 9060 XT with clamshell VRAM for 16 Gigs I guess but a 12 Gig 192-bit cut down version to replace the 7700 XT ?
499 for 9070 keeps it relevant in play vs the 5070 as well as 5060 Ti.

 

[adroc_thurston]

499 for 9070 keeps it relevant in play vs the 5070 as well as 5060 Ti.

it's not supposed to be relevant.

 

[Keller_TT]

it's not supposed to be relevant.

I'm pretty sure there'll be a market gap and it'll be down in price soon enough and AMD will have to ensure enough supply if they don't want to commit brand suicide. Not as if they have a whole range of products, and their last gen is still relevant like NV slots them with the Super cards.

 

[branch_suggestion]

I'm also looking at the 5060 Ti 16 GB.

Like every NV part below $500, it is completely outclassed but people buy them anyway, something something halo.

I think it'll be a 3070 Ti/6800 in raster and a good cut above for RT, and will likely launch for $449.

Which is trash.

AMD won't have a 9060 XT with clamshell VRAM for 16 Gigs I guess but a 12 Gig 192-bit cut down version to replace the 7700 XT ?

The 12GB cutdown won't have any real volume, just posturing at roughly ~$429 with 5070 raster.

499 for 9070 keeps it relevant in play vs the 5070 as well as 5060 Ti.

Nope, it makes the 5070 look bad right now, but the XT makes the non-XT look doubly bad, which is what AMD wants.

 

[HuesToo4]

Potentially $599 and $549?

should be $699 and $649, unless there's overhead from direct conversion, nvm looks closer to $649, $599

 

[Kepler_L2]

should be $699 and $649, unless there's overhead from direct conversion, nvm looks closer to $649, $599

There's a ~8.4:1 RMB to USD ratio for NVIDIA GPUs, that's why it should be $599 and $549.

 

[Keller_TT]

Which is trash.

AMD needs to get back with wins in that segment. That's why I'm pretty sure that after initial volumes, the 9070 will settle for $499. This time, It's basically like an OC 4070 Ti vs a less than 4070 card.

Nope, it makes the 5070 look bad right now, but the XT makes the non-XT look doubly bad, which is what AMD wants.

This is all speculation still, right? Was the non-XT price mentioned anywhere on that image? AMD must get it right at launch and not invite bad sentiment from all sides.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Was the non-XT price mentioned anywhere on that image?

Yea.
It's 500RMB less aka ~549.

 

[branch_suggestion]

AMD needs to get back with wins in that segment.

That segment is no longer $449, but $599.
Such is the gradual climb of ASPs in the post-Moore era.

That's why I'm pretty sure that after initial volumes, the 9070 will settle for $499. This time, It's basically like an OC 4070 Ti vs a less than 4070 card.

After initial volumes there will be only surges of volume at holidays, yields are too good.
Buying cutdowns for full price is what the average NV buyer does.
Until that changes, the market is dead.

 

[Keller_TT]

That segment is no longer $449, but $599.
Such is the gradual climb of ASPs in the post-Moore era.

I don't think you can compare AMD pricing to what Nvidia dictates. Not yet. If RDNA5 is a similar step, they could.

My only reference for 9070 will be the 7700 XT which was 5nm and N48's motto was to be more efficient with the die and memory costs. N4P is already more of a value node in 2025 as per TSMC portfolio than the 2022 5nm cycle.
So, there's no Moore reason to be $549 except for some upsell subterfuge, precisely because yields are good, and they can sell good bins for both tiers.

 

[branch_suggestion]

I don't think you can compare AMD pricing to what Nvidia dictates. Not yet. If RDNA5 is a similar step, they could.

The x60Ti segment is beyond laughable, either you spend <$400 for value or $500-$600 for value.
Between 400-500 has been a graveyard, except for discounted 7800XTs and the like.
The MSRP parts there suck.

 

[reaperrr3]

I'm also looking at the 5060 Ti 16 GB.
I think it'll be a 3070 Ti/6800 in raster and a good cut above for RT, and will likely launch for $449.
AMD won't have a 9060 XT with clamshell VRAM for 16 Gigs I guess but a 12 Gig 192-bit cut down version to replace the 7700 XT ?
499 for 9070 keeps it relevant in play vs the 5070 as well as 5060 Ti.

Actually, I think they will.

If 9070XT at 304W is faster in raster and not much slower in RT vs. 5070Ti with its 70 SM, N44XT-16GB could very well approximately tie the 5060Ti-16GB with its <=36SM in raster, if AMD bins it aggressively enough on the clockspeed side.

So N44XT-16GB should be competitive enough at <=$399.

Not sure there'll be any 12GB N48, I bet AMD would rather clock the sh*t out of N44 to maximise its margin and (inofficially) drop the 9070 price by some 20-30 bucks in a few months to kinda sandwich the 5060Ti-16G between 2 cards that both have better PP$.

 

[HuesToo4]

The x60Ti segment is beyond laughable, either you spend <$400 for value or $500-$600 for value.
Between 400-500 has been a graveyard, except for discounted 7800XTs and the like.
The MSRP parts there suck.

Yeah, only used 6800's and 3080's make sense there.

 

[Keller_TT]

The x60Ti segment is beyond laughable, either you spend <$400 for value or $500-$600 for value.
Between 400-500 has been a graveyard, except for discounted 7800XTs and the like.
The MSRP parts there suck.

I actually thought the 7700 XT in the Sapphire Pulse variant was a good product and could've picked up well if they had launched it at $420. It is right now a good one for $370-380 until a 9060 XT can come in for may be $380 if they repeat the 7600 XT clamshell decision, and be around 6800 XT raster.

The overall bad image of RDNA 3 was its downfall, the launch price, 6800 availability, and weird power rating at 243W. The Pulse was quite efficient.

 

[Abwx]

Add significantly worser energy efficiency vs Ada and one generation (35% avg vs 4080)

Well...

11%...

Nvidia GeForce RTX 5080 im Test: DLSS 4 MFG & Mini-FPS-Boost: Lautstärke, Temperatur, Leistungsaufnahme und OC

Nvidia GeForce RTX 5080 im Test: Lautstärke, Temperatur, Leistungsaufnahme und OC / Lautstärke & Kühlung / 360 sind keine 575 Watt

www.computerbase.de

 

[gdansk]

Power consumption won't matter again if AMD is on par again. It's just how it goes.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Surely that's low enough to make people happy.

I think even $650 for the XT would be fine, if that's a real price. It's $100 off the fake price of the 5070 Ti, and about $300 of the real price.

But regardless of the final price, I think 9070 should have more than $50 discount vs the XT. $600 and $500 would be great.

9070 looks like about 20-25% performance cut, so it should have a similar dollar amount cut. Lower end models should have equal, if not better price/$, definitely not worse.

Giving 9070 a $50 cut vs the XT, is repeating the same mistake as the 7900 XT, and 7700XT. If AMD could learn one thing, it should be not to do this again...

 

[Keller_TT]

Well...

11%...

Nvidia GeForce RTX 5080 im Test: DLSS 4 MFG & Mini-FPS-Boost: Lautstärke, Temperatur, Leistungsaufnahme und OC

Nvidia GeForce RTX 5080 im Test: Lautstärke, Temperatur, Leistungsaufnahme und OC / Lautstärke & Kühlung / 360 sind keine 575 Watt

www.computerbase.de

11% at that wattage is still a lot. The gap was ~16% between the 4080 FE and MBA XTX or if you Vsync for 100Hz 1440P. I didn't buy the XTX and settled for an XT initially just for that reason and eventually traded it for a 4080.

If the 9070 XT holds up well, and AMD improves drivers and solves the VR issues, FSR4 is reliably good (the 3 musts for me), I'll likely trade my 4080 and get the 9070 XT and keep the spare cash.

 

[Keller_TT]

But regardless of the final price, I think 9070 should have more than $50 discount vs the XT. $600 and $500 would be great.

9070 looks like about 20-25% performance cut, so it should have a similar dollar amount cut. Lower end models should have equal, if not better price/$, definitely not worse.

Giving 9070 a $50 cut vs the XT, is repeating the same mistake as the 7900 XT, and 7700XT. If AMD could learn one thing, it should be not to do this again...

+100 (in upvote I mean )

 

[gdansk]

solves the VR issues

Don't waste your time then. That's not happening and you're not in the market for Radeon.

 

[branch_suggestion]

solves the VR issues,

VR needs to solve the issue of not being a real market.

 

[blckgrffn]

I think even $650 for the XT would be fine, if that's a real price. It's $100 off the fake price of the 5070 Ti, and about $300 of the real price.

But regardless of the final price, I think 9070 should have more than $50 discount vs the XT. $600 and $500 would be great.

9070 looks like about 20-25% performance cut, so it should have a similar dollar amount cut. Lower end models should have equal, if not better price/$, definitely not worse.

Giving 9070 a $50 cut vs the XT, is repeating the same mistake as the 7900 XT, and 7700XT. If AMD could learn one thing, it should be not to do this again...

I agree with you, mostly.

I just don't think AMD wants to sell any 9070's, same as 7700XT for sure and the 7900XT as well. For now we are supposed to use that to say, "why not $50 (probably $100+ for shiny) more for so much more performance? The 9070 isn't a good buy." So we see the product line start at $550 or whatever for our perception of value but don't really consider the $550 part. Win/Win for the marketing team, since they weren't given the mission to sell max number of cards anyway.

 

[blckgrffn]

VR needs to solve the issue of not being a real market.

And not to be that guy, but my 6800 worked awesome for Alyx? Even had the USBC port and everything. I guess I was doing it wrong or was on the "happy path" with my older had me down oculus turned meta headset...

So it's not completely broken, but I am guessing like the video encoding side there are broken things lying just under the surface on the Radeon side I haven't run around of yet.

Also, I never finished Alyx as I found it super over stimulating and could only play for 20-40 minutes at time and haven't had a reason to wear that piece of personal spyware since. It's creepy to me.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I agree with you, mostly.

I just don't think AMD wants to sell any 9070's, same as 7700XT for sure and the 7900XT as well. For now we are supposed to use that to say, "why not $50 (probably $100+ for shiny) more for so much more performance? The 9070 isn't a good buy." So we see the product line start at $550 or whatever for our perception of value but don't really consider the $550 part. Win/Win for the marketing team, since they weren't given the mission to sell max number of cards anyway.

Didn't AMD say their goal now was to grow market share. That really isn't achieved by only pushing to sell the most expensive card in the lineup.

Also didn't they quickly drop the price on the 7700XT and 7900XT to about where people said it should be? If they didn't want to sell them, why drop the price. It just looks out of touch with market realities.