Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[PJVol]

Our local etailer wisely set the price at double the msrp, so tomorrow there will be plenty of stock >.<

Prices of XTs are basically in line with those in EU, i.e. €900-1100 + some "totalitarian" premium.

Either way, it's the same fake MSRP story as with the RTX 5000 launch.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

My projection of 9060XT 16GB is based on the fact the 9070XT with a similar config to the 7800XT is around 36% faster using the TPU database performance ranking

Readers added context -

25 second test runs in undemanding areas of some titles, solely for expedience, is insufficient to the task of evaluating a products performance or value.

 

[basix]

that's not a few % lmao

Ah, you seem to be sure about that...

- 32CU @ 3.0 GHz with 18Gbps and 128bit -> 100% bandwidth / FLOPS
- 28CU @ 2.9 GHz with 20Gbps and 96bit -> 98% bandwidth / FLOPS

 

[poke01]

Interesting info in the GN rant about S.I. reactions. One says it is better than expected, for the other it's a flop. The flop sales I suspect are due to derp pricing on their systems. The salient point is that those are cards not in retail circulation, and that's only two companies. There are many more.

AMD gamed the tech press well for a change. Those launch reviews are out there now. Shoppers aren't going to dig into these rage bait follow ups. Again, pulling pages from the Nvidia playbook. Steve says they can't do that by using Nvidia as a shield to do the same 💩 but AMD said "Oh yeah? Hold my beer!"

It is also erroneous to pull data from normal market conditions to compare to times of madness like the present. The 6700XT MSRP was $479, the 6900XT $999 unadjusted for inflation, which has been rampant since the start of the decade. That's your point of comparison - madness vs madness. Complaining about the markup on premium models is also odd. Why explain how EVGA was only making $4 a card if you are going to get spicy about AIBs upcharging to make a buck? They are under no obligation to adhere to the old pricing and market paradigms. Demand is much higher than supply, welcome to year 2 math class. I remember they used lemonade stands as the model for it.

The evangelizing tech bro stuff Steve opined, is largely horse💩. It's laughable really. AMD has to win our hearts and minds so we will jump up on a soapbox and be free sales reps for them? GTFO. Nvidia has been wearing the blackhat so long, AMD look like the white hats by comparison alone. No need to get all preachy about how AMD needs to give us all 🫦 ✋ behind the bookstore or else. FFS 🤣 Suggesting that is why Ryzen took off is also weak. We were all typing our fingers off for years about how AMD was superior back in the 2000s, it did nothing to change Intel market dominance. It didn't matter this time around either. Intel has fallen apart, and yet they still dominate the market. It'll take years of continued collapse for AMD to even get to 50%. It amounts to reddit and forum dwellers engaging in some self aggrandizing nonsense inflating our importance in the success or failure of these corpos.

Complaints real and exaggerated is all this hobby does anymore. I am reduced to complaining about the complaining. This timeline sucks.

One for thing for sure, AMD needs a new marketing department and they can start by kicking out Frank A.

 

[H T C]

Still think AMD missed an opportunity here to sell THEIR OWN cards @ MSRP.

I seriously doubt AIBS would sell their cards @ so much higher price IF AMD were selling theirs @ MSRP: unless these had some serious noise issue or something like, @ CURRENT PRICES, prospective buyers would ditch the AIB models in favor of AMD's MSRP models.

While not perfect, this would help keep the prices "more in check".

 

[QuickyDuck]

Under most circumstance more ram doesn't offer more performance but wider bus will. So you're making a worse gpu overall except for the specific scene in specific game. 8G is adequate for a entry card and it's not like vendors doesn't offer 16G card.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

One for thing for sure, AMD needs a new marketing department and they can start by kicking out Frank A.

We collectively dubbed it AMDumb marketing ages ago. My unpopular opinion is this was their best outing in ages. Gaslit the tech press to get great launch reviews. Generated a ton of positive buzz in the community too. Any sour grapes about MSRP is pointless. Just as it was during the pandemic. Gamers are buying the overpriced cards faster than any IHV can make them.

Still think AMD missed an opportunity here to sell THEIR OWN cards @ MSRP.

I seriously doubt AIBS would sell their cards @ so much higher price IF AMD were selling theirs @ MSRP: unless these had some serious noise issue or something like, @ CURRENT PRICES, prospective buyers would ditch the AIB models in favor of AMD's MSRP models.

While not perfect, this would help keep the prices "more in check".

That's why AMD didn't do it. They are taking care of their partners, by letting them make as much as they can. With volumes being so much lower than Nvidia, making more from each card sold is important.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Under most circumstance more ram doesn't offer more performance but wider bus will.

It isn't just about performance anymore. It's also about frame pacing, image quality, and being able to use the features the card was marketed with. If textures are not loading. If you are getting microstutter, hitching, or crashes. If you can't use ray tracing or frame generation, all because you ran out of frame buffer, that's way more important than more bus width when it happens.

 

[H T C]

That's why AMD didn't do it. They are taking care of their partners, by letting them make as much as they can. With volumes being so much lower than Nvidia, making more from each card sold is important.

I get what you're saying, but the problem isn't that they're selling their cards @ much higher prices: it's that they're selling their cards @ MUCH HIGHER prices.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I get what you're saying, but the problem isn't that they're selling their cards @ much higher prices: it's that they're selling their cards @ MUCH HIGHER prices.

It's a problem for our wallets, not the AIBs. And until they stop selling out immediately, the prices will get higher yet. Just as they did last time the market went derp. You don't have to like it, support it, or buy it. Legions of FOMOs and scalpers ensure you and I are swept up in their idiocy anyways.

Me reading all of the magic 8 balls around here proclaim that if AMD goofed on pricing this time they are cooked

 

[Gideon]

Yeah the price-hikes were inevitable due to demand. My hope was thatMSRP +50€ cards were available at launch for even ... 5 minutes, which they weren't.

All one can do now is hope that things settle down much quicker than during the crypto boom and Nvidia's availability is part of the solution. Wide availability of RX 9060 and RTX 5060 (ti) will also help a bit

 

[gaav87]

Readers added context -

25 second test runs in undemanding areas of some titles, solely for expedience, is insufficient to the task of evaluating a products performance or value.

Well im faster than 4080S at 440W in some games at 330w so yeah there is that
Also 22% faster than 4070Tis in monster hunter xD
Some games im seeing 220-280W draw only its crazy.
We will see prolly fine-wine. Also some guys already figured out counter strike2 lower scores... Its the clocks same thing happened in overwatch and cs2 on rdan2 if you did not put minimum clock slider higher but 9070xt has no clock sliders.....

 

[linkgoron]

Still think AMD missed an opportunity here to sell THEIR OWN cards @ MSRP.

I seriously doubt AIBS would sell their cards @ so much higher price IF AMD were selling theirs @ MSRP: unless these had some serious noise issue or something like, @ CURRENT PRICES, prospective buyers would ditch the AIB models in favor of AMD's MSRP models.

While not perfect, this would help keep the prices "more in check".

AMD desperately needs their handful of remaining AIBs, Nvidia can mostly do whatever they want.

 

[Timorous]

Readers added context -

25 second test runs in undemanding areas of some titles, solely for expedience, is insufficient to the task of evaluating a products performance or value.

Sure thing but I was not evaluating a 9060XTs performance or value since they don't exist. I was extrapolating a rough performance tier using a crude metric because for the purposes of a forum post it was good enough.

Readers note has been marked as unhelpful.

 

[Win2012R2]

I seriously doubt AIBS would sell their cards @ so much higher price IF AMD were selling theirs @ MSRP

And why would AMD be against AIBS charging higher prices when AMD can also increase theirs?

 

[Glo.]

Nvidia can mostly do whatever they want.

Not for long, by the looks of it.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Sure thing but I was not evaluating a 9060XTs performance or value since they don't exist. I was extrapolating a rough performance tier using a crude metric because for the purposes of a forum post it was good enough.

You don't get to decide that for anyone but you. It isn't good enough by a longshot.

Some of us play the games all the way from start to finish. Our experiences often do not reflect the shovelware versions W1zz and co. produce.

 

[H T C]

And why would AMD be against AIBS charging higher prices when AMD can also increase theirs?

Because their cards become EVEN MORE APPEALING, the lower their prices are.

Ofc, to take FULL ADVANTAGE, they need to have availability ...


Over here "in my neck of the woods", prices for the 9070 XT @ my usual online shop, range between 700€ and 900€: i'd have no problem with 800€ ... but 900€ seems a bit too much ...

 

[Timorous]

You don't get to decide that for anyone but you. It isn't good enough by a longshot.

Some of us play the games all the way from start to finish. Our experiences often do not reflect the shovelware versions W1zz and co. produce.

You can do the same extrapolation from 3d centre data and you get the same result, a 9060XT that has an uplift over the 7600XT that is the same as the uplift the 9070XT had over the 7800XT is about 7700XT tier in raster and it will be faster still in RT. Further, given that the 9060XT, 7600XT, 7800XT and 9070XT should all have 16GB of VRAM it is not like we are in a situation where the 8GB performance is overstated due to poor testing practices that hides the stutters or hides the IQ degradation.

The other very important factor here is I am using it as a marker of relative performance. Even in a poor test suite as long as not every title is CPU bound then with a large enough suite you will still see a generally representative relative performance delta for products with the same VRAM amount.

Again, I am not evaluating the 9060XT as a product, I can't do that, it does not exist. What I am doing is trying to speculate as to what kind of performance peers it will have to guide towards an expected price point given current pricing of those expected peers.

As such a 9060XT 16GB that performs like a 7700XT in raster should probably cost no more than $350 and ideally $330 like the 7600XT costs. Those who think it will cost a lot more I believe to be misguided and those who think it will be cheaper might have a more pessimistic view of where its performance will land.

If that napkin math indicated that the 9060XT 16GB should perform like a 7800XT then maybe there is room for it to cost $400 instead and then maybe there is actually a point in a 16GB cut variant because that could be $330. The rough extrapolation does not seem to imply that though and I think 16GB on a $250-$280 part is probably unlikely so to me the next best option would be 12GB 96bit over any 8GB variant.

 

[Win2012R2]

Because their cards become EVEN MORE APPEALING, the lower their prices are.

They are appealing enough to sell out, Radeon Group needs margin for more R&D and more expensive nodes.

i'd have no problem with 800€ ... but 900€ seems a bit too much

Don't buy it then?

I planned to buy 5090 even at (reasonable) scalped prices but it turned to be a dud, so I'll be skipping whole 50 series now.

 

[jpiniero]

Don't buy it then?

I think that's what's going on. People just can't control themselves with the FOMO. With nVidia not producing much of anything, AMD is the only game in town.

 

[Win2012R2]

AMD is the only game in town.

It's a very good game - 9070 XT is a fantastic card and I say it as 4090 owner using Nvidia cards since Riva 128, if (God forbid) my 4090 fails while I wait for 6090 then my temporary replacement card would be AMD, and I'll give RDNA5 very serious consideration - if they get Big card out there, Radeon needs every cent to justify it next year.

 

[Josh128]

Yeah, In Europe the availability has been rather miserable everywhere AFAIK. I had two friends ready to pull a trigger on this card, if it were available for at most €750-800 (after taxes), but it wasn't even close. There were only a couple non-XTs available for that price. XT was at best high 800-ies.

The reality now is €770 for the cheapest non-xt and €890 for the cheapest XT. Considering you can buy a MSI VENTUS 3X RTX 5070 Ti for €999 there just is no way to recommend them. IMO they both would have to be at leats 100€ less (the non-xt perhaps a little bit less than €100 as it's costing about the same as 5070 and has more memory)

Just advise them to hold out, dont do it.

 

[Gideon]

Just advise them to hold out, dont do it.

I did just that. Luckily none of them are in a real rush, just getting bored and pondering an upgrade

 

[SolidQ]

I'll give RDNA5 very serious consideration - if they get Big card out there

I'm assuming, we gonna start hear news next year.

Wide availability of RX 9060

I hope it's <250$ for 8gb, so i can take it at autumn, to play Doom, and until RDNA5 to change on high class card