Re-modeling a house with exisiting un-permitted work

[Tommy2000GT]

I'm planning to re-model my house to increase the square footage buy pushing it out in the back. However there is an un-permitted bathroom on the house with it being bumped out on the side.

I spoke to the planning/building department about pushing the house out in the back to increase the size. They gave me information on the requirements and process. They will need a current and proposed site plan.

So the problem is the un-permitted bathroom will be fairly obvious since it's bumped out on the side of the house. I don't think I can exclude it from the site plan since they will see it anyways during the inspection. I did not mention this to the planning/building department because I don't want them to come poking around yet. I want to have the re-model done with permits since it's a fairly big job and I know the neighbors in the back will complain.

How should I approach this?

 

[utahraptor]

Submit the plan with the bathroom as if it is a new addition. If they reject it submit it without because it is existing work.

 

[BoberFett]

There isn't really an approach to this. Unless you think you can hide it from the inspector, they may expect you to have the previous work inspected when they look at the new work.

 

[Tommy2000GT]

Submit the plan with the bathroom as if it is a new addition. If they reject it submit it without because it is existing work.

The other problem is the bathroom is not up to code so I can't submit it as a new addition. The ceiling height is less than 8ft because of the slope of the roof and the floor is stepped down 4" from the main house. It had to be stepped down to give some more ceiling height but it is still not up to code. Basically the bathroom does not look like it goes seamlessly with rest of the house, inside or out.

 

[Tommy2000GT]

There isn't really an approach to this. Unless you think you can hide it from the inspector, they may expect you to have the previous work inspected when they look at the new work.

I don't think I can hide it since it sticks out like a sore thumb.

The records show it as a house with 1 bath. So when the existing site plan shows the 2nd bath, it will raise red flags. And when they see it is not up to code, I think I will be in more hot water.

I don't want to tear it down because it's perfectly functioning bathroom and I'm on a budget with this re-model.

 

[smackababy]

What will happen is you will be forced to get the bathroom up to code before any inspections will be passed. So, you might as well start looking how much that is going to cost.

 

[Tommy2000GT]

What will happen is you will be forced to get the bathroom up to code before any inspections will be passed. So, you might as well start looking how much that is going to cost.

That's what I'm afraid of. If it has to be brought up to code it will have to be demolished, the roof will have to be re-pitched, and a new foundation will need to be poured to bring the floor to the same level as the rest of the house.

 

[smackababy]

That's what I'm afraid of. If it has to be brought up to code it will have to be demolished, the roof will have to be re-pitched, and a new foundation will need to be poured to bring the floor to the same level as the rest of the house.

I don't know about the floor, but dems are the breaks. My dad does this stuff (code enforcement) and he has to make crappy work be ripped out.

 

[NutBucket]

There's no reason you can't have a step-down to the bathroom that I'm aware of. I'd say most of the time additions to homes on raised foundations are built on slabs.

 

[skyking]

Draw up the proposed addition and the old bathroom as new. They do not pre-inspect.
Fix the old bathroom right as part of the remodel.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

I'm a planner and work with code enforcement and building inspectors all the time. The best thing to do is draw the site plan up with the bathroom included. Submit your addition plans to building dept included as well. They'll help you get the bathroom up to code while getting the additions going as well. This way there's no surprises when the inspector goes out to do his job. Otherwise it makes you look like an ass.

 

[waffleironhead]

The best thing is to lie to the building inspector. Everyone knows this.

 

[NutBucket]

In SoCal best practice is to bribe the building inspector....

 

[IronWing]

Paint the bathroom beige. No one will even notice it is there.

 

[Tommy2000GT]

I'm a planner and work with code enforcement and building inspectors all the time. The best thing to do is draw the site plan up with the bathroom included. Submit your addition plans to building dept included as well. They'll help you get the bathroom up to code while getting the additions going as well. This way there's no surprises when the inspector goes out to do his job. Otherwise it makes you look like an ass.

Say if I draw up the existing site plans with the un-permitted not-up-to code bathroom in it and for some reason the remodeling project is put on hold or falls though. Will code enforcement still fine me for the bathroom or make me tear it down? I just don't want to open a can of worms.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'm a planner and work with code enforcement and building inspectors all the time. The best thing to do is draw the site plan up with the bathroom included. Submit your addition plans to building dept included as well. They'll help you get the bathroom up to code while getting the additions going as well. This way there's no surprises when the inspector goes out to do his job. Otherwise it makes you look like an ass.

exactly!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

The best thing is to lie to the building inspector. Everyone knows this.

make sure that you are video recording all of the building inspectors moves........

 

[alkemyst]

The other problem is the bathroom is not up to code so I can't submit it as a new addition. The ceiling height is less than 8ft because of the slope of the roof and the floor is stepped down 4" from the main house. It had to be stepped down to give some more ceiling height but it is still not up to code. Basically the bathroom does not look like it goes seamlessly with rest of the house, inside or out.

A bathroom is a serious issue in a home if not added to code.

I worked in mortgage lending a long time and saw many people have to literally knock down nice additions that were to code, but never permitted because whatever the code enforcer needed to see could not be determined.

A bathroom is someone that usually adds to the tax revenue so serious to the MAN. You may want to look into code in your area and find out what qualifies a room being a bathroom. You may be able to remove the toilet and cap off the tub/shower and have it just be a utility room.

Building code is a very local topic. I would definitely not pour money into a new addition that may be impacted by something existing unless you want to keep the house forever.

Where I am at the code enforcers don't recheck the whole dwelling during an improvement. However; at sale of the dwelling these issues can come up.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

Say if I draw up the existing site plans with the un-permitted not-up-to code bathroom in it and for some reason the remodeling project is put on hold or falls though. Will code enforcement still fine me for the bathroom or make me tear it down? I just don't want to open a can of worms.

Honestly I think you'll open a can of worms either way; when the plans get submitted up front with them with bathroom drawn in - less of a surprise. When the inspector goes out - WTF?? this wasn't on the plans - bam they'll throw the book at you and hit you with whatever violation they can as well as fines. I'm exaggerating a little but you get the point. Better to be upfront about it so they can work with you. Depending on the inspector you get, if he's a prick he might write you up and make you tear it down but that wouldn't be good service to the public. Most departments would want to work with you and see what your options are first.

Just an FYI (In CA at least) code enforcement enforces the zoning code, building inspectors enforce the building code and would be the ones to write you up etc.

 

[NoTine42]

The other problem is the bathroom is not up to code so I can't submit it as a new addition. The ceiling height is less than 8ft because of the slope of the roof and the floor is stepped down 4" from the main house. It had to be stepped down to give some more ceiling height but it is still not up to code. Basically the bathroom does not look like it goes seamlessly with rest of the house, inside or out.

You may want to check your exact code. Sloped ceilings may only need to be above 7'6" for at least half of the room. In addition

"Recap

Just to recap the minimum ceiling heights suggested by the latest 2006 IRC state that any corridors and habitable spaces must a minimum be 7 feet 6 inches high. Any non-habitable areas such as kitchens, bathrooms, storage areas and laundry rooms can have heights of 7 feet.



Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/stry/explaining-ceiling-heights-under-the-international-building-code#b#ixzz37rpz2BwW"

 

[shabby]

I'm on a budget with this re-model.

Normally i thought an "addition to a house" and "im on a budget" don't mix.

 

[Greenman]

How long have you owned this house?
Was the non compliant bathroom disclosed before the sale?
Are there disclosure laws in your state?
How long ago was the bathroom built?
Does the bathroom project into city required side or rear yard setbacks?

The answers to those questions will give you some direction.
I've remodeled a lot of older homes that have illegal additions/remodeling. It's rarely a cut and dried situation.

 

[alkemyst]

Normally i thought an "addition to a house" and "im on a budget" don't mix.

dafuq?

 

[alkemyst]

Most departments would want to work with you and see what your options are first.

I have found this true as well in my experience.

If you bought a place long past the title insurance stuff, ask the Chief via a phone call / anonymously that you have a potential code issue and what's your options to rectify it easily.

 

[Greenman]

I have found this true as well in my experience.

If you bought a place long past the title insurance stuff, ask the Chief via a phone call / anonymously that you have a potential code issue and what's your options to rectify it easily.

It depends a lot on state laws. Here in CA there are some very strict disclosure laws. Not putting in writing that the bath was non-compliant would be actionable even years later.