Read this "School Prayer"...

[Opinionated]

I'm not trying to start a religious argument here y'all, but a friend sent this one to me, and it certainly made me think. I remember when I was in public school, not soooo long ago, and that this was written by a student certainly proved to me how much things had changed.... for the worse.



<< THE NEW SCHOOL PRAYER This was written by a teen in
Bagdad, Arizona.

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's &quot;inappropriate&quot; to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such &quot;judgments&quot; do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen! >>

 

[madthumbs]

LOL! That was great!

 

[DAM]

cool i like that, specially the fact that i like it that way.








dam(separation of church and state)

 

[Napalm381]

Yeah, real cute. I don't want to listen to your christian propaganda in a school any more than you want to listen to me talk about how I don't believe god, so not talking about it at all there is the best solution. Go away, religious nef.

 

[woodie1]

Makes a good case for private schools.

Sad how far we haven't come.

 

[~zonker~]

I like this one too... read before the Kansas legislature


Heavenly Father, we come before You today to ask Your forgiveness and seek Your direction and guidance.

We know Your Word says, &quot;Woe to them who call evil good&quot; but that's exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.

We confess that:

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism.
We have worshiped other gods and called it multiculturalism.
We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem.
We have abused power and called it political savvy.
We have coveted our neighbors' possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us O God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless the men and women who have been voted into office by the people of America and who have been ordained by You to govern this great country. Grant them the wisdom to rule, and may their decisions direct us to the center of Your will.

We ask it in the name of Your Son, The living Savior, Jesus Christ, Amen.

 

[Opinionated]

Napalm381 - You are obviously offended. That was not my intent; I assure you.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm afraid that I am not familiar with the term &quot;nef&quot;. Would someone please provide me with a definition. Thanks.

Napalm381, you make several assertions and assumptions in your earlier response:

1)You make the assumption that I want to broadcast &quot;Christian propaganda&quot; in the schools. I most assuredly do not. However, I DO wish that my son could exercise both his rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech by uttering a prayer when he feels the need, or to profess his faith in something more than the &quot;almighty dollar&quot; when asked.... WITHOUT the fear that he will be banished from the educational institution and roundly persecuted by staff and peer alike. I do not ask for MORE rights for my son, just the same ones available to anyone professing any other belief or idea.

2)You make the assumption that I do not want to hear you profess your non-belief in God. Perhaps you should inquire before making such assumptions. Just because we may disagree fervently on this point does not mean I would not want to hear what you have to say. In fact, I am actually quite interested in why you choose not to believe in God. I welcome anything you have to say on this topic, or any other for that matter.

3)You assert that the best solution is simply not to talk about it. I hardly see ignoring a problem as a solution, and certainly not the BEST solution. I think calm, rational discourse is a better way to address problems and disagreements.

4)You assume that I am &quot;religious&quot;. A wild assumption if ever there was one... Just ask anyone who knows me. I HAVE chosen to be a Christian. However, I am certainly not religious. There is a definite difference.

I embrace your right to have such fervent disagreement with me, and I would certainly never tell you to &quot;go away&quot; simply because I disagreed with you. Let me ask you. Should you not grant me the same level of respect and tolerance? Who knows, if folks would take the time to hear and understand each other's positions, instead of dismissing others out of hand because they think they MIGHT disagree with what is/will be said.... We might just find a lot more common ground.

I HAVE been known to change my position from time to time based on what I've learned from other folks. I'm a tough sell, but it's possible.... After all, I am....

Opinionated

 

[DAM]

opinionated, are you realated to >=(fish):>??


just curious.




ohh the days the nefs roamed free.




dam(search function)

 

[Regine]

Don't worry, Opinionated, Napalm381 is just cranky because his new toy hasn't arrived in the mail yet, although it was supposed to be here on Tuesday

Just don't get another one of those religion threads started

 

[Spoooon]

Personally, I have no objection to prayer in school or before football games or whatever. I don't really believe in God, but I don't really disbelieve. But I can understand why some people may be uncomfortable sitting through organized prayer. School prayer smacks of sanctioning one religion, or rather one belief in God. Instead of outright banning school prayer, why not have a 5 minute quiet time or something at the beginning of the day? During this time you could pray to whoever you choose, or just sit there and read a book or do homework or something. I wish I was in charge damn it!

 

[IronMike]

No change in society is going to occur by having the ten commandments posted in the school library. No change is society is going to occur by having a prayer before the big game.
We acquire our ethical and moral lessons from those who do the hard work of living them day by day.
We have given young people great amounts of freedom and self-esteem. Now we just need them to understand the hard part, responsibility.

 

[Gatsby]

Although I am Apathetic about religion. I personally don't give a damn. I am opposed to school prayer.

Although the poem is nice, I have a few things that just get on my nerves. (BTW I take things from different angles than the norm) First off, Religion is a good thing to have. it helps people through rought times and not.

Well since I lost my trains of thought happens a lot now days. My point is that although I support freedom of speach, my main concern is the usual kiddy politics.

Kids who do it in moderation are fine and if thye keep it to themselves. My biggest concern is if an ultra religios wacko starts to impose his religion on other kids. Although this might not occur, tolerance to other religios beliefs is something that I have not seen many religions practice.

In moderation school prayer is fine but if its forced about another thats where I draw the line and start to let loose all hell.

Also I d't believe that religion cna solve everything in life. It takes more than God to change who we humans have become.

I;m sorry if I offended anyone but thats just my opinoin and I might be factually wrong but its me.

Gatsby

 

[Opinionated]

IronMike - I agree. I don't care if the 10 Commandments are posted at school, nor do I think a publcly lead prayer is necessary at &quot;the big game&quot;. (Though I say a prayer for the players myself)

What I DO believe however, is that by restricting our childrens rights to express their religious and moral beliefs in public institutions, we are actually teaching them that it is wrong to hold such beliefs and morals. That is de facto endorsing non-religion as the state religion.

For me at least, it's NOT about putting religion in schools. I take care of that with my children at home by word and deed. For me, it's about NOT restricting my childs RIGHT to hold and publicly express his beliefs and ideals.

Making children understand &quot;responsibility&quot; is virtually inseparable from conveying to them a set of values and morals on which a sense of responsibility is to be based. I don't have all the answers, but I know in my heart that the way we are doing it now simply doesn't work...

I may be wrong, but I think I am on the right track.... After all, I am....

Opinionated

 

[Gatsby]

Opinionated

That is de facto endorsing non-religion as the state religion.

Although I don't agree with you, I'd rahter have religion taught to me by me parents or minister than by my school. Also, which religion should they teach? Should they only restrict the religions taught to those of Europe? How would you proerly incorporate the other religions?

Also, you said that you wanted your children to learn morals (how honorable) but do you want to know which morals they are learning or a set that the school is teaching?

I'm not only opinionated... I'm also hard-headed

Gatsby

 

[Opinionated]

Gatsby - I don't believe ANY religion should be &quot;taught&quot; as THE religion in school. Please don't misunderstand me. Frankly, I think the schools have enough on their plate to teach language, math, and science properly and completely.

When I was in school, I learned about a variety of cultures AND religions in some detail in 6th grade Social Studies. In fact, we spent almost an entire semester on culture and religion. We didn't hit 'em all, but we certainly got a wide assortment.... including Christianity.

Today, you can present a paper in the public schools on Wicca, the Druids, satinism, and any of a number of &quot;alternative&quot; lifestyles or activities....

But if a child tries to present a paper on Judeo-Christian beliefs, morals, values, etc... the hammer comes down fast and hard.

I simply see this as a reactionary restriction of speach.

I am VERY involved with making sure I know what the public schools are teaching my children. What I KNOW the schools are NOT teaching children (besides adequate depth of knowledge in language, math, and science), are commonly held values like hard work, self reliance, taking pride in your efforts, attention to detail, organizational skills, striving for excellence, respect for adults and each other, respect for life, respect for the truth, what freedom and patriotism are, respect for the sacrifices those that came before made to give them what they now take for granted, respect for their country.... and that no matter what their situation, troubles, talents, or burdens, that only THEY are responsible for what they do or fail to do.

We have raised a generation of children and young adults who live on a sliding scale of values that are constantly adjusted to justify whatever action they take no matter how deviant to the laws (ours and higher). We have raised a generation of spoiled-rotten, self-centered, narcissistic, victims... without a moral compass.

I think there are a whole host of values that we can &quot;teach&quot; as a matter of course by procedure and example in our schools.... Hey, like... it's a good thing to turn in your homework, be able to read above your grade-level, be the most knowledgable mathmatician, write well and neatly...

Shoot, in some of the elementary schools I've seen recently, you are lucky if a child turns in a paper at all.... not to mention that it might not have a heading or even a name on it... or have anything useful or relevent written on it. Sixth graders (over half that don't even have their multiplication tables memorized) who can't average a set of their own grades to see how they are performing.... not that they care, since they know that no matter how little work they do or how little they learn, that they WILL be &quot;promoted&quot; to the next grade.

What kind of values are we teaching our children by this kind of &quot;educational&quot; policy.

No, we probably DON'T need to teach an ethics, values and morals class to our children. We simply need to teach them what they need to know UTILIZING a set of standards for conduct and performance that will convey by EXAMPLE the values for which we stand.

BTW, I am HAPPY that you are &quot;hard-headed&quot; as you say. That can be a plus in today's world when most folks are so darned wishy-washy that hey can't hold or defend ANY belief.

Opinionated

 

[yata]

The poem is misleading and contradicting. As what religious talks do: to capture your attention with emotional falseness. Let alone the rhymes. sigh

You can pray(or bow your head) all you want on your own. Religious people are missing the whole point of this prayer law. You can hold Bible sessions with your fellow members without interruption. Don't feel your rights violated if the government took away the ability for you to preach beliefs on an unwilling audience, because it wasn't cool to do that in the beginning.

Once again, one could wear stuff showing their beliefs or put car stickers on, but those things and giving church invitation flyers are at most some that one can do to &quot;recruit&quot;.

IMHO, I think the writer could not do any fun so he/she's dissing prom king/queen and people with tattoos or piercings.

 

[Spoooon]

Gatsby, you'll find this link interesting: Southern Baptists' Mission to Convert.

It deals with kids converting other kids. Through deception!

I'm not saying every religious kid is out to convert everyone in their sights or anything; the article is dealing with an isolated incident.

I just thought it was interesting.

 

[UG]

Frankly, some of us heathens are neither convinced nor impressed with the Christian need to intertwine social engineering with state-funded public education.

Oh, they say &quot;It's because of the breakdown in the moral fibre of this increasingly secular, atheistic society that we've are today living in a progressively more violent and crime ridden, nuclear family-destructive society.&quot;

They say &quot;We must have school prayer and the 10 commandments in every classroom because the rest of godless society is a baaaaaadddddddd influence on young minds.&quot;

Let us explore life in this our modern day, anti-Christian American society; shall we?

 

Ok, I just have to hold down the fort for radical Christianity real quick. Christ has commanded those who call on his name to spread the message of his love. It's not a message I force on anyone, just simply try and present clearly and with love while trying not to be yelled at or spit on here at my university (ah, our Christian America). or on the anandtech forums...

Just a stance on this issue, though.... Since we don't live in a Christian nation (which will never exist until after the world as we know it is over), I don't think people should be told to conform to anything they don't believe in, that's a pretty ludicrous thing to ask. CS Lewis said it well in his book Mere Christianity, I don't remember his words.

Ok, kept it short enough that someone might read it -- mission accomplished.

 

[Opinionated]

<< Frankly, some of us heathens are neither convinced nor impressed with the Christian need to intertwine social engineering with state-funded public education. >>



UG, I don't think I said anything that could remotely be interpreted as advocating the above.

BTW, if you think the Government doesn't engage in &quot;social-engineering&quot;, you are completely deluded. It's a favorite pass-time of our governments at both the local, state, and federal level.

So attributing the &quot;need to intertwine social engineering with state-funded public education&quot; to Christians is simply not accurate. The government uses the purse-strings all the time to &quot;nudge&quot; us along into what it thinks is the &quot;proper&quot; socially acceptable direction. Social Engineering in and of itself is not inherently a bad thing by the way. BUT, it can often lead to unintended consequences.

BTW, I have the sneakiest suspicion that you have no earthly (much less divine ) idea what Christianity is about. Not surprising actually as many self-described Christians don't really have any idea either. There's a whole lot of confusion out there on what is basically a very simple concept. But this is NOT a thread for the discussion of religion..... As I started out with....

My objection is NOT based on religious grounds, but rather to the fact that the Government is restricting the free exercise of speech and trying to regulate which ideas/beliefs are publically &quot;acceptable&quot;.

Regardless of what your religious beliefs (non-beliefs) are, most folks would concede that our society IS indeed suffering from progressive decay, and that there does not seem to be any sign that this decay will cease without some significant alteration in the way we do things.

Opinionated

 

[UG]

Bobtist;

I appreciate your insight.

Still, you didn't comment directly to the point I was trying to make: that Christianity already permeates our society so completely, at all levels; that, if Christians believe that there are problems in society that result from secular, humanist influences, and that even more prescribed exposure to Christianity can solve those problems, my question is: If Christian Ethic and Morality is so ubiquitous in our society, and is so proven to be effective at eliminating societal problems, why is a society so steeped in the Christian ethic still visited by ethical and moral problems? Original sin, or fallacious thinking?

Might it be because Christianity believes itself to be more effective at engineering behavioral compliance than it truly is?

Is that perhaps why us heathens are so despised and villified: because, as easy targets, it is onto us that Christianity can so easily transfer its abhored inadequacy?

Just a hypothesis, of course.

 

[UG]

Opinionated;

BTW, if you think the Government doesn't engage in &quot;social-engineering&quot;, you are completely deluded.

You at the same time miss my point and eloquently make my point.

Christians are in control of government. Government engages in social engineering.

QED

It is you, Sir, who are deluded.

 

[UG]

Opinionated;

Name me ONE, just ONE, Atheist elected to the House of Representatives, or the Senate, or to a Cabinet post, or to the White House. Just ONE.

Only ONE.

ONE.

Huh?

 

[Pretender]

<< Ok, I just have to hold down the fort for radical Christianity real quick. Christ has commanded those who call on his name to spread the message of his love. >>

Really, when was this? Just because you believe in a religion where some mystical powerful guy might've passed on some message to you doesn't mean it's right. I could go into school on Tuesday and say &quot;The Demon Beelzebub called me to spread destruction, so here I am to blow all your asses up.&quot; doesn't mean it'd be right. The separation of church and state means primarily that we don't have to listen to some extremely religious teacher lecture on day after day about some god who a large number of the students don't believe in. Nothing stops you from praying on your own, and if you want to, go ahead, have a blast, pray yourself off like crazy, but why should all us athiests and non-christians have to be forced to either a)pray or b)listen to a religious sermon.

 

[Phalkon]

I say;
Let those with faith pray,
let those without go about their day.

There's my poem

I think that the banning of any mention of God is stupid... That sort of action is more satanic than atheist, if you think about it. I can't stand the atheists that have no tolerance for religion... gives us a bad name.

... just as long as they don't take away condoms and birth control..... I'll be okay