Real Pricing: The myth vs the Truth

[Rellik]

Hi everyone,

I have always wondered about the seemingly low prices some people and companies claim for products(vid cards in particular)

In general, the so-called MSRP is given by the Manufactor e.g. Nvidia or ATI. The local stores adopt those prices or differ slighty. With internet vendors like the ones on pricewatch, sometimes prices appear way lower then suggested retail. Most of the time, you will not be taxed because internet based stores often can ship taxfree.
But if there are taxes involved(and shipping costs) I would like to know what is the REAL price one paid for their product. And do the stores "around the corner" really offer cards priced that much lower then MSRP? and in other countries, prices are often different due
to trade and import taxes. While I have no doubt understanding for such themes, I do not approve Nvidia claiming that the Geforce 3 Ti 200 is half the price of the Geforce 3 at entry level(which is correct,
400 vs 200 Dollar at introduction) and then pricing it the same or
higher then GF3 in other countries.

Let us take for example the current Geforce 3 TI series and ATI´s
Radeon 7500 and 8500.

Geforce 3 TI 200 MSRP: 200 Dollars. US Store price? US online price?
German price for ELSA Ti200: 850DM ( 400US)
German price for GF3 at introduction 1300DM(was around 600Bucks at the time)

ATI announced the cards initially for 200 and 400 Bucks. Then it revised the cards to 200 and 300 Bucks. ATI germany did "translate the prices to 400DM (under 200US) and 900DM (420 US) Apparently
they did not get the official price from ATI or did not want to.
However, there are some Retailers that offer the new RADEON series
priced at levels that mirror the US or even cheaper. But the Nvidia
prices seem to be largly inflated. Although I am rather ATI biased,
I do see the Ti200 as a good card for Nvidia fans. And if it remains
at this high price, it will fail, at least in Germany.

But I want to know IN GENERAL what you really paid for your last card. I paid 550DM for the Radeon 64 which were about 230 Bucks
at the time (about 5 months ago) That was in a store with a 5 year
warranty for the RETAIL VIVO.

any info appreciated.

 

[kazeakuma]

Interesting points. However here in Australia the situation is much reversed. For example a ATI Radeon VE (supposedly the cheapest vid card) is priced at an astound $350 AU. Compared to an equivalent Geforce2MX with twinview which costs aroudn $240 AU. A Radeon DDR costs about $660 AU while a GTS will set you back $320. So Nvidia cards are the way to go down under. I have no idea why ATI cards cost so much here, which is rather disappointing seeing as I would like to try one but for the price I can get much more for much less.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I paid $0 for my Kyro2 and the board prior to that, the Gainward GF2 Pro450 I paid $0 for

Don't know what you guys are b!tchin about, I think the prices are just fine

 

[PressureXP]

<< I paid $0 for my Kyro2 and the board prior to that, the Gainward GF2 Pro450 I paid $0 for

Don't know what you guys are b!tchin about, I think the prices are just fine >>



We all ain't snotty spoiled children that just want to brag about their stuff. We actually have expenses to cover and make a living out of what is left...

 

[Teasy]

Yeah Ben has no expenses to cover, after all children are so cheap to bring up these days

I also paid nothing for my Kyro 1 and II and I have no idea what you people are going on about, you say that you actually pay for graphics boards??, thats crazy talk I tellz ya

 

[BenSkywalker]

"We all ain't snotty spoiled children that just want to brag about their stuff."

Huh? I included the little winky face and everything

The Pro450 I got as a bit of payment for building a rig for someone. I traded him my DDR and built him a pretty nice 950MHZ TBird rig, with 256MB RAM, Live! five speaker Dolby Digital speakers, 19" monitor etc, for just under $1K. He checked a comparable prebuilt and they wanted almost twice that. The Kyro2 I got as a review board, generously supplied by the owner of the site that I have linked in my sig.

I reviewed both boards(Kyro2 review is nearing completion) and if you break down the costs of the boards versus the amount of time I spent I was making about $1 an hour for the Pro450 review and even less for the Kyro2. I have well over two hundred hours worth of work into reviewing these two boards that you could buy both of for less the $200. Spoiled?

"Yeah Ben has no expenses to cover, after all children are so cheap to bring up these days"

And when you times it by four.....:Q:Q

 

[bevancoleman]

<< Interesting points. However here in Australia the situation is much reversed. For example a ATI Radeon VE (supposedly the cheapest vid card) is priced at an astound $350 AU. Compared to an equivalent Geforce2MX with twinview which costs aroudn $240 AU. A Radeon DDR costs about $660 AU while a GTS will set you back $320. So Nvidia cards are the way to go down under. I have no idea why ATI cards cost so much here, which is rather disappointing seeing as I would like to try one but for the price I can get much more for much less. >>

The GF MX prices are a bit high you can get a MX400 with tv out for $~180. However your point is valid, ATI products in australia are very highly prices.

I allways put it down to the fact we are so close to twian and china (and they like us ) so me can import stuff from them fairly cheap (quite a number of place also directly import) where as ATI comes from Canada which is further away, etc

 

[Rand]

Here is Canada ATi graphics cards are pretty much invariably priced significantly lower then nVidia's cards. Even when MSRP's are the same ATi's cards are often as much as $100 cheaper.
Then again, given that ATi is a Canadian based company I suppose it's little surprise that prices for their cards are cheaper here.

The most I'm willing to pay for a graphics card is roughly $230 Canadian, though I prefer to keep it just under $200.

 

[lifeguard1999]

The price that any business pays for a particular product varies by the amount of the product they order. Large orders will command a lower price than will small orders. That being said, we can make some guesses about the Radeon 8500.

MSRP: $299
Small Orders: $250
Medium Orders: $200
Large Orders: $150
Cost to ATI to make the card: $50

We know the MSRP for the 8500.

For small orders, I took the number from a post on this board from the owner of a small company. To paraphrase, he said that he can purchase items for about what Newegg.com sells them for. Ergo, $250.

I would assume Newegg is not selling items at a loss, or even too slim of a profit, and that they are a medium size business. Thus the $200 guess. It could be $220. It could be $180. Who knows.

Dell is in the business to make money, not lose it. Despite what people think of the $203 Dell 8500, I would think that they still made money on it. Grocery stores have loss leading products. Maybe Dell does too. I doubt it though. Thus the $150 guess. Again, it could be a different number. It is just a guess.

ATI, of course, needs to charge more for the product than what it costs to make them. That includes not only the physical materials + manufacturing of the card, but also things like the R&D team for next years product, the driver team, overhead (janitors, office personel, etc.), etc. You can get a pretty good idea about what it costs to make a product from the SEC filings from publicly traded stocks, if the company breaks out earnings by product line or if they have only one major product line. Someone else can do the homework on this one by reasearching the SEC filings for ATI. The company mark ups the price to make a profit.

 

[Rellik]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

BEN, I thought I was far from bitching, but who knows.

I was interested if all you guye really have cards from cheap offers that differ great from the MRSP or if the most of you pay normal prices in stores...

Personally, I hate dislike stores who think that they can dictate high
prices to customers even if the informed know the official price...

 

[kazeakuma]

bevancoleman - true, but I am comparing prices for a hercules card not a 2 bit card just to make the comparison a little fairer. FYI I can get a GTS for a little over $100 if I wanted to.
but yeah, ati is way to expensive in aus. I hate to see what they are gonna charge us for the 8500.