Real-time 1080p Hardware Encoding

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Jenova314

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Dec 3, 2000
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I'd like to start capturing some of the over-the-air 1080i programs that I've been receiving, but my Athlon X2 simply won't do it. I'm using vdub with the x264 codec, and I can barely get 3~5 fps.

Hauppage cards seem to hardware encoding in SD, but not 1080i. I'd actually prefer an h264 or x264 hardware encoder, if possible. The only thing that might get me that performance seems to be the badaboom converter from elemental. However, I believe that's a proprietary app used only for conversion, and not real-time encoding.

I spent the whole night searching for a codec that might support CUDA, to no avail. Does anybody else have any luck? Thanks!
 

wlee15

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Jan 7, 2009
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Why do you need to do real-time encoding, just save the native mpeg-2 files and encode afterwards ideally with MeGui rather vdub.
 

Grooveriding

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Dec 25, 2008
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Out of curiosity, how would one capture the 1080i signal ? I received satelite for TV, and have a PVR/receiver box combo. But getting the saved programs off the PVR is a real pain, as it uses some sort of third party encrypted format.

I thought of running the signal out of my PVR into an ATI TV Wonder 650 card I have in one of my pcs. But that card only takes svideo or the yellow rca cable for video input. Which I don't think carries the 1080i/720p signals.

And I'm not aware of any method to run an HDMI cable into the pci.

Would really appreciate some input on how to do this, as I'd like to develop a saved catalog, preferable in mkv/mpeg format of soccer games

Thanks!
 

Jenova314

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Dec 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: wlee15
Why do you need to do real-time encoding, just save the native mpeg-2 files and encode afterwards ideally with MeGui rather vdub.

The moment you do this, you lose the ability to de-interlace the raw video effectively, since the interlacing will no longer be a clean and predictable effect. It's best to compress raw video using the final/preferred codec at the first stage.

This isn't even considering that two encoding passes (MPEG2 + h264) would degrade the overall quality of the final video.
 

Jenova314

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Dec 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: Grooveriding
Out of curiosity, how would one capture the 1080i signal ? I received satelite for TV, and have a PVR/receiver box combo. But getting the saved programs off the PVR is a real pain, as it uses some sort of third party encrypted format.

I thought of running the signal out of my PVR into an ATI TV Wonder 650 card I have in one of my pcs. But that card only takes svideo or the yellow rca cable for video input. Which I don't think carries the 1080i/720p signals.

And I'm not aware of any method to run an HDMI cable into the pci.

Would really appreciate some input on how to do this, as I'd like to develop a saved catalog, preferable in mkv/mpeg format of soccer games

Thanks!

You'll need to replace your TV Wonder 650 with an HD-capable version. I'm not sure whether your satellite box has component output, but AFAIK that would be the only way to capture your programming in real-time. I'm not sure whether the HDTV tuner cards can tune to satellite channels. Anybody know?

 

themisfit610

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Apr 16, 2006
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The moment you do this, you lose the ability to de-interlace the raw video effectively, since the interlacing will no longer be a clean and predictable effect. It's best to compress raw video using the final/preferred codec at the first stage.

This is completely untrue on two levels.

1) If you're saving the MPEG Transport Stream, you're not doing any re-encoding. You're just copying the data

2) Even if you were re-encoding, you can easily preserve the interlacing - provided you have a codec that supports interlaced encoding, and you set the field order properly.

I'm a professional compressionist. You're misinformed.

Now, regarding the issue at hand.

There are basically two ways to go about capturing HD video off QAM (cable) / ATSC (over-the-air). Satellite really only works with option 2, unless you have a custom, hacked set-top box.

1) Capture the MPEG Transport Stream (which can be done with several software programs)

2) Capture the HD video output of a set-top box, by using an HD capable, component video capture card, like the Blackmagic Video Recorder (http://www.blackmagic-design.c...oducts/videorecorder/), Blackmagic Intensity Pro (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/), or Hauppage HD PVR. Forget about HDMI capture - your set-top box will have HDCP encryption, and any capture card out there will simply not allow you to capture it.

Method 1 is far superior when possible, as it allows you to capture the stream as-is, then process as you need to, and finally re-encode into a storage format with an excellent codec like x264, which can easily cut the size of an MPEG-2 source by half with no perceptible loss in quality - especially a typically crappy and over-compressed QAM or ATSC broadcast.

Method 2 works, but is subject to a few problems.

A) The easiest solutions have built-in hardware encoders, like the Hauppage and the Blackmagic Recorder. While these do encode H.264, they do so not nearly as well as x264 does. It's not a HUGE deal, as you can simply encode at a very high bitrate, then filter / deinterlace, and encode again with x264 without much loss - but it's still another compression phase.

B) The other solutions, like the Intensity Pro, don't have hardware encoding. So, you have a couple choices. You can capture to uncompressed video - which requires ~1.5gbps of sustained I/O, so think 3-5 SATA drives in RAID 0 to handle. This is a HUGE PITA, and I would never suggest it . You can alternatively capture to an acquisition / editing format like CineForm, which is completely awesome, but a tad bit expensive. MJPG is another good option. Keep in mind, capturing HD video isn't nearly as simple or bulletproof as capturing SD video with VirtualDub.

Since you're trying to do Satellite, you're probably best off getting one of the products with a hardware encoder, capturing at the maximum allowable bitrate, then filtering with AviSynth (get neuron2's DGAVCIndexNV application for very good real-time deinterlacing on your GPU), and encoding with x264.

Lots of choices. Lots of ins and outs. Lots of fun to mess with.

Keep in mind, 3-5fps for encoding 1080p content with x264 isn't half bad for a slowpoke Athlon X2. Get a Core 2 Quad or a Core i7 if you can afford it . Still, even with your CPU you can probably improve performance. Use CRF mode if you're not already - this will make you forget all about 2 pass encoding. What x264 settings are you using?

Forget about CUDA encoders. There's nothing out there that delivers quality even approaching x264.

Oh, and don't use VirtualDub to encode x264.... It's such an ugly hax, and has plenty of issues. If you want something that feels like VirtualDub, try AviDemux. Otherwise, use a modern encoding GUI like MeGUI - or Ripbot264 if you want something simple.

~MiSfit
 

Jenova314

Senior member
Dec 3, 2000
792
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misift,

Thank you very much for clearing things up. I still have a question, though.

From what you explained, it sounds like the native video stream of the ATSC is MPEG TS? If so, wouldn't I run into issues from part B if I try to write that stream in real-time onto my single SATA drive?

I will give MeGUI a try later in the month. Thanks for the help!
 

themisfit610

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2006
1,352
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You're more than welcome

Yes, ATSC is always an MPEG Transport Stream containing MPEG-2 video.

The bitrate of a single channel will never exceed ~19mbps (~2.4 MB/s) which is very easily achieved with any hard drive.

Part B refers to capturing uncompressed HD video (for example, off a component output).

But... you want to capture off satellite, right?

~MiSfit
 

Jenova314

Senior member
Dec 3, 2000
792
0
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Actually, Grooveriding was the one with the satellite setup. I just want to capture ATSC programming. One more question, if you don't mind...

If I plan to go ahead and capture the MPEG TS from ATSC broadcasts, which video capture card would you recommend?
 

themisfit610

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2006
1,352
2
81
Good question. I think almost any ATSC tuner card would work perfectly fine, though I'm not sure. ATi/AMD and Hauppage both sell several products that should do the job easily.

QAM is still a PITA, especially with Vista from what I understand.

-Derek
 

dansus

Junior Member
Feb 4, 2008
4
0
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2) Capture the HD video output of a set-top box, by using an HD capable, component video capture card, like the Blackmagic Video Recorder (http://www.blackmagic-design.c...oducts/videorecorder/), Blackmagic Intensity Pro (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/), or Hauppage HD PVR. Forget about HDMI capture - your set-top box will have HDCP encryption, and any capture card out there will simply not allow you to capture it.

~MiSfit

What if my HDMI output didnt have HDCP, is there a card and software combo i can use to capture and encode with resize and de-interlace in real time?
 
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