Reasons people of color are shot by Police...

[alcoholbob]

It is so frustrating that this idiocy needs to be addressed over and over and over again.

Someone posed on my Twitter TL "I went to the doctor with a broken arm and he said "All bones matter" and I said "Yeah doc, let's worry about the broken one right now"".

It seems to me the issue is with BLM is that the unjustified killings by cops against blacks in the inner city is much higher than whites in surburbs.

It seems to me there's only two possible solutions to this, given that cops are human, and if they are working in a city where blacks are involved violent crimes with firearms are say, 100 times of whites (like in NYC) that cops would naturally develop a distorted threat perception when around young black men:

1) Replace all cops with robotic drones armed with non-lethal weapons (technology for this is probably decades away).

2) Create a reservation system (like the one we have for Indians) where blacks can voluntarily move to and choose not to be held to the standards of American/English Common Law institutions, and they can create their own laws and form their own legal standards with limited sovereignty.

 

[buckshot24]

It seems to me the issue is with BLM is that the unjustified killings by cops against blacks in the inner city is much higher than whites in surburbs.

It seems to me there's only two possible solutions to this, given that cops are human, and if they are working in a city where blacks are involved violent crimes with firearms are say, 100 times of whites (like in NYC) that cops would naturally develop a distorted threat perception when around young black men:

1) Replace all cops with robotic drones armed with non-lethal weapons (technology for this is probably decades away).

2) Create a reservation system (like the one we have for Indians) where blacks can voluntarily move to and choose not to be held to the standards of American/English Common Law institutions, and they can create their own laws and form their own legal standards with limited sovereignty.

We need to tell black men that they can greatly decrease their chances of being shot, unjustifiably or justifiably by cops. We also need cops to try and deescalate situations better. Lying to black people by saying cops are out to get you is 180 degrees from the solution.

 

[Paratus]

Well I'm floored he said this but this quote about the risk to the AA community from police basically explains this thread.

It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years to get a sense of this. If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/08/newt_gingrich_and_other_conservatives_seem_to_be_coming_to_terms_with_racism.html

 

[Ackmed]

It seems to me the issue is with BLM is that the unjustified killings by cops against blacks in the inner city is much higher than whites in surburbs.

BLM needs to address all black lives, not just those taken either justly or unjustly by police. 93% of black deaths between the ages of 18-35 are caused by other black males.

Here are a couple of facts that every American should be ashamed of: Black Americans are four times more likely to be murdered than the national average. What’s more, four out of five black homicide victims are killed with guns.

The homicide rate for black male victims was 31.67 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall homicide rate for male victims was 7.13 per 100,000. For white male victims, the homicide rate was 3.85 per 100,000.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/murder-rate-for-black-ame_b_4702228.html

So while having a MUCH lower overall percentage of America being made up by black males, they commit several times more murders. While having a MUCH lover overall percentage of America made up of black males, 40% of the cop murder are committed by them. Neither of these facts is ever brought up however.

BLM can and has done good. But when some things to make them look bad, they all look bad. Instead of protesting deaths that were justified, blaming cops even when they were right, they should be condemning them. And those who kill other black males. If all the people who are protesting the deaths of someone killed justly would take those efforts into helping their own communities from killing each other it could help.

BLM and everyone should protest unjust killings, it's wrong. Police should be held accountable and to a very high standard. The facts are that police related killings, either justified or not, make up an extremely small part of overall black male deaths. By far the greatest threat to black males is their own. Another fact is as I stated black males 18-35 make up 40% of police killings, while being less than 3% of the population.

Instead of putting all efforts into only deaths by police, they (and everyone who can) needs to put efforts also into trying to stop all deaths. BLM only make themselves look worse when they lie, protest, riot, etc or back a criminal who was justly killed by police. It takes away from those are unjustly killed and should be fought over.

 

[dank69]

We don't know. Lets stick to the facts, ok?

If you want to say my explanation isn't the only plausible explanation, you need to provide at least one other plausible explanation.

 

[piasabird]

Is there a hate crime section?

 

[piasabird]

Driving in wrong neighborhood.
Driving old beat up car.

My wife who is not white but Asian has been stopped by the police a couple of times and followed by police at other times. Mainly because she was not a white red-neck. I live in a small backwater town in Illinois that use to be an all-white town in the 1950's. If the police in towns like this see a non-white person they will become suspicious of that person and investigate what is going on. It might be getting a little better lately.

I cant totally blame the police. We live near St Louis, MO and if you watch the local news, all you ever see night after night is Black people committing crimes every night and their mother's all claiming they are just sweet innocent children. This gets old after a while. I think the Media should quit reporting each individual crime so none of these people get any free publicity.

The only way we can change people's minds is to get rid of the scum faster by getting rid of liberal judges. As a people we need to be less tolerant of criminal activity and punish people much harsher for crimes like break-ins, armed robbery, car jacking, car theft, and any crime with a gun. If people are no good we should just execute them as quickly as possible. Maybe we need more cameras in cities.

 

[glenn1]

Are the ratios, proportions or quantities even relevant in terms of who gets shot by police more? Should we accept a society where our police default to lethal force, due to fear, poor training, bigotry, stereotypes, hostile communities, irresponsible behavior or all of the above?

Similarly, shouldn't we seek to remedy the socio-economic conditions that create the types of communities and scenarios where police are put into these situations?

There are too many guns on the streets. Too many trigger happy cops. Too many talking heads pouring gasoline on the fire.

FUCK. NO. You don't reward those with hugely outsized crime and murder statistics by giving them taxpayer dollars to say "now we know you were poor and couldn't help but shoot each other but now you know better, here's some money to buy yourself a treat."

 

[fskimospy]

FUCK. NO. You don't reward those with hugely outsized crime and murder statistics by giving them taxpayer dollars to say "now we know you were poor and couldn't help but shoot each other but now you know better, here's some money to buy yourself a treat."

This is an awesomely insane response. You appear to acknowledge the link between the two but purposefully don't want to do anything about it because you think allowing the cycle of poverty to continue will teach them a lesson or something. You want to waste human capital because you don't like the people. (Your fear of inner city minorities probably contributed to this)

Guess what, the people born into that didn't do anything to deserve it and your desire to keep the cycle going is not only morally monstrous but stupid. Your patented spite based policy solutions at work!

 

[glenn1]

This is an awesomely insane response. You appear to acknowledge the link between the two but purposefully don't want to do anything about it because you think allowing the cycle of poverty to continue will teach them a lesson or something. You want to waste human capital because you don't like the people. (Your fear of inner city minorities probably contributed to this)

Guess what, the people born into that didn't do anything to deserve it and your desire to keep the cycle going is not only morally monstrous but stupid. Your patented spite based policy solutions at work!

You must have really worked at getting as being able to consistently answer questions wrongly as you do.

First, there is NO link of poverty to crime. None. What typically boosts both poverty and crime is having poor judgement, impulse control, and loose morality.

Secondly, no one gives a shit whether the poor "deserved" it or not. What I object to is ignoring the circumstances of how they got and stayed poor. You talking about 'wasted human capital' is completely facepalm worthy because often the poor were the direct cause of that waste via things like dropping out of school, dealing drugs, or having children in their teens. And you want to subsidize them for those bad behaviors?

Third, there is zero evidence that giving people tax money is going to positively change their behaviors WRT things like the outsized percentages of poor inner city blacks killing police officers, etc. If you think that we need to bribe the Michael Browns of the world just so they won't act like sociopaths akin to Li'l Zé from City of God then you are hopeless, the worst kind of enabler who would bribe with candy their toddler who was having a tantrum.

 

[fskimospy]

You must have really worked at getting as being able to consistently answer questions wrongly as you do.

First, there is NO link of poverty to crime. None. What typically boosts both poverty and crime is having poor judgement, impulse control, and loose morality.

Secondly, no one gives a shit whether the poor "deserved" it or not. What I object to is ignoring the circumstances of how they got and stayed poor. You talking about 'wasted human capital' is completely facepalm worthy because often the poor were the direct cause of that waste via things like dropping out of school, dealing drugs, or having children in their teens. And you want to subsidize them for those bad behaviors?

Third, there is zero evidence that giving people tax money is going to positively change their behaviors WRT things like the outsized percentages of poor inner city blacks killing police officers, etc. If you think that we need to bribe the Michael Browns of the world just so they won't act like sociopaths akin to Li'l Zé from City of God then you are hopeless, the worst kind of enabler who would bribe with candy their toddler who was having a tantrum.

I never made any statements as to the causes or solutions, I simply said that your statement was both stupid and immoral. I don't think you have any room to call anyone a sociopath while acting like a sociopath yourself.

 

[Subyman]

The argument put forth by a lot of people that do not want to accept our country's responsibility for crime by blacks and those in poverty is really a play on chicken or egg. What came first? The poor/minority people are innately terrible/lazy/dumb and that is why they are in poverty or poverty promotes bad behavior and cyclical poverty? The first lets one absolves society of any wrongdoing and, in fact, means poor people deserve to stay poor. While the second one leads to a condemnation of society for policies that led people to poverty or, the inaction to change this. One view externalizes the responsibility while the other directs it back the self. Some people can not accept that they reap the benefits of their ancestor's horrible actions.

There is also the need to feel that we have created our life due to our merit alone. Saying bad people become poor or stay poor means you are a good person if you are doing well, or that you are deserving of your good life.

Also, Glenn, I don't think anyone advocated for simply pouring money into poor areas.

 

[glenn1]

The argument put forth by a lot of people that do not want to accept our country's responsibility for crime by blacks and those in poverty is really a play on chicken or egg. What came first? The poor/minority people are innately terrible/lazy/dumb and that is why they are in poverty or poverty promotes bad behavior and cyclical poverty? The first lets one absolves society of any wrongdoing and, in fact, means poor people deserve to stay poor. While the second one leads to a condemnation of society for policies that led people to poverty or, the inaction to change this. One view externalizes the responsibility while the other directs it back the self. Some people can not accept that they reap the benefits of their ancestor's horrible actions.

There is also the need to feel that we have created our life due to our merit alone. Saying bad people become poor or stay poor means you are a good person if you are doing well, or that you are deserving of your good life.

Also, Glenn, I don't think anyone advocated for simply pouring money into poor areas.

Okay then, here's your chance. Feel free to elaborate on those policies that led people to poverty. Slavery is 150 years in the rear view mirror, the end of Jim Crow laws 50+ and the Great Society welfare binge is 50+ also. Affirmative Action has been around for 40+ years, and "diversity" has been a key element of human capital decisions for probably 30+. What "inaction" are you calling out on our collective behalf at this point?

 

[fskimospy]

Okay then, here's your chance. Feel free to elaborate on those policies that led people to poverty. Slavery is 150 years in the rear view mirror, the end of Jim Crow laws 50+ and the Great Society welfare binge is 50+ also. Affirmative Action has been around for 40+ years, and "diversity" has been a key element of human capital decisions for probably 30+. What "inaction" are you calling out on our collective behalf at this point?

I think you would be well served to watch this discussion between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/4u4hqr/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-bill-o-reilly

 

[glenn1]

I think you would be well served to watch this discussion between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/4u4hqr/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-bill-o-reilly

Full of crap too. "White people set the system." How's that white-person system working out in places like Detroit that have been run by minority politicians for years?

The "residue of that continues today" is more bullshit.

Again, okay we can stipulate for argument that "white privilege exists." What policies above and beyond Great Society welfare, affirmative action, making blacks a protected class, the fetish for 'diversity', and countless other remedies do you need? What MORE steps are going to be that one that finally ends that privilege and allows blacks to compete evenly instead of being given a free pass for eternity?

 

[fskimospy]

Full of crap too. "White people set the system." How's that white-person system working out in places like Detroit that have been run by minority politicians for years?

The "residue of that continues today" is more bullshit.

Again, okay we can stipulate for argument that "white privilege exists." What policies above and beyond Great Society welfare, affirmative action, making blacks a protected class, the fetish for 'diversity', and countless other remedies do you need? What MORE steps are going to be that one that finally ends that privilege and allows blacks to compete evenly instead of being given a free pass for eternity?

So for white privilege to exist all whites people need to be doing really well for some reason? Huh? Why is the 'residue of that continuing today' bullshit, specifically? Is it just because you don't want to admit an uncomfortable truth?

Blacks aren't a protected class any more than whites are a protected class. Why is diversity a 'fetish' as opposed to just good policy?

As for the policies that we might want to pursue in order to make up for centuries of purposeful oppression, that's a long thread in and of itself.

 

[glenn1]

So for white privilege to exist all whites people need to be doing really well for some reason? Huh? Why is the 'residue of that continuing today' bullshit, specifically? Is it just because you don't want to admit an uncomfortable truth?

Blacks aren't a protected class any more than whites are a protected class. Why is diversity a 'fetish' as opposed to just good policy?

As for the policies that we might want to pursue in order to make up for centuries of purposeful oppression, that's a long thread in and of itself.

Feel free to elaborate on those polices, we have plenty of time and are in no danger that the thread will run out of space.

 

[fskimospy]

Feel free to elaborate on those polices, we have plenty of time and are in no danger that the thread will run out of space.

I honestly don't feel like it, as I'm pretty sure you're just looking for reasons to do nothing.

It is interesting though that both you and werepossum seem to think that protected classes protect minorities instead of protecting everyone.

 

[glenn1]

I honestly don't feel like it, as I'm pretty sure you're just looking for reasons to do nothing.

It is interesting though that both you and werepossum seem to think that protected classes protect minorities instead of protecting everyone.

Oh come on be honest. While non-minorities are covered by the 'race' element of CRA 1964 you know damn well it wasn't passed to ensure whites wouldn't be subject to discimination. In practice non-minorities win lawsuits so infrequently that it's newsworthy when they do, and you never ever see the federal government pursuing actions based on legal theories like "disparate impact" for non-minorities.

And I'm sure that your reluctance to even bother trotting out your bad ideas for policy to be examined is strictly based upon what you believe my reaction to it will be. Way to stand up for what you claim to believe in.

 

[michal1980]

I honestly don't feel like it, as I'm pretty sure you're just looking for reasons to do nothing.

It is interesting though that both you and werepossum seem to think that protected classes protect minorities instead of protecting everyone.

when a protected class is a minority, how is that protecting everyone?

 

[HomerJS]

To be fair, that should have included:

- resisting arrest
- punching out cop repeatedly
- trying to steal cop's gun
- reaching into waistband where gun or replica gun was visible

Also forgot to include following cops orders to the letter
Attempting to purchase a legal firearm in a Walmart

 

[fskimospy]

when a protected class is a minority, how is that protecting everyone?

That's not what a protected class is. Protected class is something like race or sex or religious belief. All people are protected from discrimination based on their race no matter what that race is. Hence, everyone is protected.

It's amazing to me how little conservatives seem to know about laws that they are generally against. I mean did you really think the government made a law that said 'you have to serve black people but it's okay to discriminate against the other races'?

 

[fskimospy]

Oh come on be honest. While non-minorities are covered by the 'race' element of CRA 1964 you know damn well it wasn't passed to ensure whites wouldn't be subject to discimination. In practice non-minorities win lawsuits so infrequently that it's newsworthy when they do, and you never ever see the federal government pursuing actions based on legal theories like "disparate impact" for non-minorities.

And I'm sure that your reluctance to even bother trotting out your bad ideas for policy to be examined is strictly based upon what you believe my reaction to it will be. Way to stand up for what you claim to believe in.

Haha, you saying that they are bad without even knowing what they are validates exactly what I said. Thanks for so easily proving my point.

Of course civil rights laws were passed in response to anti-black discrimination. It doesn't change the fact that they protect everyone. I agree that we should be honest when discussing them so in the future you should not describe black people as being a protected class as opposed to race being a protected class. To do otherwise is super dishonest.

 

[WHAMPOM]

One reason for the great amount of Black on Black crime is the cops refusal to patrol in those areas. When response to a reported shooting takes hours in a "Black" area and minutes in a "White" area you may wonder where the cops' priorities are.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Anti-discrimination laws were created to protect minority rights not those of the Great White Majority.