Recessed lighting in kitchen. LED's?

[Triumph]

I am going to be putting some recessed lighting in my kitchen and am pondering which LED kit to use. Home Depot has some LED kits that get great reviews, and are about 50-60 bucks each. For some reason LED kits are nowhere near this cheap at the online lighting stores, so that makes me wonder. Any experience with LED's?

link

I am considering LED's because I don't like the heat of halogens and incandescents, and incandescents are going away eventually anyway. I am ok with spending more money up front to get something that will last, and it is only 4-6 lights at the moment. I'm spending more time in labor putting them in.

My other option is to put in standard $15 recessed cans, and install LED retrofits. With this approach, the cost is about the same, and I still have a standard edison style fitting inside the can in case something new comes along. I won't have to replace the whole can. The edison style fitting isn't going away ever, I think. Something like this:
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Mated with this:
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Thoughts?

Old thread that has been revived so I moved it to what is now the proper forum.
admin allisolm

 

[edro]

The non-Edison base versions will last "forever", so you don't need to worry about replacing them.
However, I do understand the idea of being able to switch to new LED bulbs in the future.
The fully enclosed LED versions you linked to have a nice clean look to them (you can't see an ugly LED bulb).

I have Lithonia LED recessed cans in my bathroom. They have been there a few years and still work as they are supposed to.

 

[DrPizza]

Since you seem to be raising the point of cost, HD has a case of the standard recessed cans, with the trim plates; I think it's about $50 total for 6 of them. Then go with the CFLs that are made for recessed lighting - they look just like regular recessed bulbs. I just put the same into my garage remodeling project - I'm hoping that in a few years, the LEDs will come down in price enough to justify the cost of replacing the CFL bulbs with LEDs. I purchased the CFLs on sale; they worked out to about $2 or $3 each.

It's weird at HD - last time I was looking at the lights, there was a pretty strong sales pitch; they seemed to really be pushing those LEDs you linked to above. The guy kept telling me how much money I'd save in the long run until I asked him if he was making that claim based on the cost of incandescents or on the cost of CFLs. (He didn't know, but I knew that it was best case scenario vs incandescents.) I believe the CFLs run around 18 watts; the LEDs you linked to are 14.5 watts. Mathematically, at 10 cents per kilowatt hour, with 6 bulbs, you would have to have the lights on for 476 hours to save $1. Figuring the kitchen lights are on at the most about 3 hours a day, I'd save about $2.30 a year on electricity costs, meaning it would take about 100 years to recoup the initial expense. In other words, I don't think that the cost of LEDs is worth it (yet) compared to the cost of CFLs, unless there's some other reason you prefer LEDs over CFLs.

 

[almega]

We recently remolded a few rooms and we replaced all our incandescent lighting with recess lighting. We used the Halo brand cans and the Ecosmart LED lights from HD. We are very happy with the lights, they are very bright and work well with dimmers. We installed 20 cans/lights in five rooms and a hallway.

 

[MarkXIX]

Yep, if you're going with dimmers, be very careful with CFLs. There are very few, if any, that I've found at HD that are dimmer capable.

 

[DrPizza]

I have 4 dimmable CFL recessed lights in the new living room. Got them on clearance for a couple bucks each at HD as well. Since they were clearanced, it's possible they don't carry them any more. I'm not a huge fan of the range in how they dim - they don't get quite dim enough for me, but actually, other than there, I've never bothered with dimmable lights in this house before.

 

[Triumph]

dimmable lights is one of the big reasons i was staying away from CFL's. i also don't like the turn-on time of CFL's. and lastly, LED's run cooler than all of them. the furnace should be used to heat the house, not the light bulbs.

i may do the second option like dr. pizza recommended, i don't see how i can go wrong with a standard sized recessed can. and it sounds like almega did exactly what i'm thinking of doing and is plenty happy.

 

[edro]

Keep in mind that CFLs burn out much quicker than the package states and sometimes cannot fit in a recessed light can. (just make sure it fits)

 

[rsd]

Often local utility companies subsidize the cost of these LED lights. I know that is the case at Home Depot/Lowes depending on your location. Locally they had these LED for only $25. I think this is what you are looking at but I could be wrong:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...vSaxps9mEeGYkS4yW5Zg0g9IJ_qNis2_0_0_0&cj=true

 

[Mark R]

Recessed lamps are generally unsuitable for home use, because they direct the light straight down, which is not where it is needed or wanted. This generally means you need about 2x as much light as if you had correctly selected lamp fittings.

Directable spot lights are better for kitchen use.

 

[iRONic]

Recessed lamps are generally unsuitable for home use, because they direct the light straight down, which is not where it is needed or wanted. This generally means you need about 2x as much light as if you had correctly selected lamp fittings.

Directable spot lights are better for kitchen use.

Huh?!

I installed three recessed lights over the counters tops in my kitchen. They direct the light straight down onto the work surface, you know, exactly where it's needed.

To address the OP; I'll be waiting for the LED conversions to fall in price before I jump onboard.

 

[Jeff7]

The non-Edison base versions will last "forever", so you don't need to worry about replacing them.
However, I do understand the idea of being able to switch to new LED bulbs in the future.
The fully enclosed LED versions you linked to have a nice clean look to them (you can't see an ugly LED bulb).

I have Lithonia LED recessed cans in my bathroom. They have been there a few years and still work as they are supposed to.

Assuming the power supply holds up that long.

 

[Mixolydian]

Recessed lamps are generally unsuitable for home use, because they direct the light straight down, which is not where it is needed or wanted. This generally means you need about 2x as much light as if you had correctly selected lamp fittings.

Directable spot lights are better for kitchen use.

lol wut? :hmm:

 

[shortylickens]

We have recessed lights in our kitchen with dim-able halogens and they're very nice. Tried LED's and they look too cold, they also dont spread the light well. We took them out.

 

[edro]

Assuming the power supply holds up that long.

In residential use, they will. Most have ~50-100,000 hour life at those temperatures.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

1) use the edison style
2) to control dimming put multiple swithces in. 6 cans? Put 2 on a switch and 4 on the other. It's like having a 3 way switch as you cabn have 2, 4 or 6 lights on

The Eidson style is a standard. new standard will come and go. Unless a lower volatage alternative comes along, stick wiht Edison style.

Right now, LEDs are a waste of money and the heat given off by CFLs is nothing like Incadescent heat.

 

[Mark R]

Huh?!

I installed three recessed lights over the counters tops in my kitchen. They direct the light straight down onto the work surface, you know, exactly where it's needed.

To address the OP; I'll be waiting for the LED conversions to fall in price before I jump onboard.

Ah. If the lights are installed directly over the worktops, then that is OK - but that isn't the common format for kitchens, as round here most kitchens have cabinets over the worktops.

Straight downlighters, unless they are directly over the worktop, direct the light straight at the floor, where it is wasted.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Personally I'd go with the standard edison cans and use CFLs. Or are they too big to fit in those cans? The downside with all these different type of led lights that have been coming out is no one is really agreeing on a standard. So you buy a special socket type and who knows if they'll still be making those bulbs in 10-20 years from now when they finally decide to burn out.

 

[iRONic]

Ah. If the lights are installed directly over the worktops, then that is OK - but that isn't the common format for kitchens, as round here most kitchens have cabinets over the worktops.

Straight downlighters, unless they are directly over the worktop, direct the light straight at the floor, where it is wasted.

Odd that...

I have cabinets over my counter tops also. Doesn't every relatively modern kitchen? The counter tops stick out from the wall farther than the cabs and it was rather simple (plumb bob) to line up the recessed cans directly over the desired work area.

 

[Jeff7]

In residential use, they will. Most have ~50-100,000 hour life at those temperatures.

The LEDs, sure. Assuming the manufacturer did things correctly with respect to thermal design.

But the power to them is coming from a switching power supply that'll be exposed to the regular spikes and crap coming in on the 120V lines.
And of course, one place you can cut costs is in the power supply. Lower efficiency, less protection, lousy output regulation, cheap capacitors, poor placement with respect to proximity to heat sources...take your pick, there are lots of places to go wrong when designing with LEDs. Electrolytic capacitors are easy to kill. The ones I see are usually rated for up to 85°C - but they'll only last a few thousand hours at that elevated temperature before they start having problems.

I could take some high-end LEDs, give them inadequate heatsinking, and mate them up with a bare-bones piece-of-crap power supply that overdrives them so that they're really bright, and I'll end up with an LED light that'll look nice and mostly work as expected, except that it'll last only a few thousand hours, either because the overheating LEDs fail prematurely, or because the power supply dies.

Lots of places to cut corners and screw things up, unfortunately - especially if you're a company in China making no-name products with very little direct accountability.



Philips' Fortimo LED lighting line is something I'd say would have a very good chance of lasting beyond 50,000 hours. A 1300 lumen emitter + power supply + heatsink will cost somewhere around $150-$200. You'll note that it's not an Edison-style screw-in base either. It's got a flat base, for good heat transfer. The screw-in base sucks for heat transfer, which was fine for helping to contain an extremely hot tungsten filament. LED lighting, though, needs to get heat away from the emitters as effectively as possible.

 

[Triumph]

i think it's almost certain that i will just put in standard cans and decide later on LED's. or maybe buy the ones from home depot, i can always return them. i don't see the benefit to buying $150-200 LED's if the $40 ones will last even 10,000-20,000 hours.

as for the edison base not transferring heat effectively, does it really matter when the heatsink is this large?

 

[arch113]

Will this:

Work with this?:

 

[Sluggo]

Will this:

Work with this?:

Yes, the 6" can is pretty standardized. Different trims can make them seem completely different, but they are the same.

 

[Kaido]

Joe's LED's has some nice strip-light kits:

http://ledaccentlights.net/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29

Free shipping on orders over $125, fwiw.

 

[Triumph]

The next question is, 5" or 6" housings? From what I've read, they share the same bulb/LED kits, so what's the point of having two sizes? I'd like a smaller size to scale with my smallish kitchen, but I think the 4" may not put out enough light.