Recommendation of a mechanical keyboard

[skaertus]

Hello everybody,

I am in search of a keyboard which is comfortable and provides a great typing experience at the same time. I am not interested in a gamer keyboard, as I will use it basically for web browsing and extensive Microsoft Office use (especially typing on Word). I want comfort and the typing experience, and I do not care about several other features these keyboards may have. I live in Brazil, so my options here are limited.

I used to type for years on a Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 3000, a comfortable wireless multimedia membrane keyboard, and which was the best one I had ever used up to that point – basically most of the keyboards I had previously used were very crappy ones.

After some research, I decided to try a mechanical keyboard last year. Mechanical keyboards are not easy to find here in Brazil, even in a large city such as São Paulo; due to the very high taxes charged by the government, these keyboards are luxury items a few people can afford. So, I have to order them online without previous testing.

I bought a Redragon K552 Kumara for some USD 65, the cheapest I could find. It uses an Outemu Blue switch, which would be similar to a Cherry Blue. I liked the feeling and even the sound, but I was feeling pain in my wrists, as I had to put additional force to type and it lacked a wrist rest. I tried to buy separate wrist rests, but it did not work.

I then bought another one, which is a Redragon K555 Indra, for some USD 120. It provides a better experience especially because of the wrist rest. But I still think it requires a bit too much of force and I feel somewhat tired and some pain in my wrists after typing for a while – I had never have this feeling with a membrane keyboard.

So, I may be willing to give another shot. But these keyboards are not cheap, and I can only order them online without testing previously. According to Brazilian law, I should be able to take them back after a week if I decide to; but in practice online stores make it very difficult to do so, and I do not have the time or the will to spend countless hours or even days trying to make a store accept a product back.

I thought of some alternatives which are available here which would be as follows:

- Redragon K550 Yama, which uses an Outemu Purple switch, which should require less force to activate. It would cost about USD 150.

- Logitech G810 Orion Spectrum Romer-G. It uses a proprietary switch from Logitech, and it would cost USD 200.

- Logitech Orion Brown G610 costs USD 120, but it lacks a wrist rest.

- Logitech G213 Prodigy. It is a membrane keyboard which simulates the feel of a mechanical keyboard. If it has the typing experience, I could give it a try, as I do not need all the additional features of a mechanical keyboard. This one runs for USD 90.

- Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2. These ones may come with proprietary green or yellow switches from Razer (not sure about the difference), and it seems to have a good wrist rest. It would cost some USD 400, so I would only buy this one if it is really the ultimate choice.

- Corsair K68, has a Cherry MX Red switch, and costs USD 140.

I can try other options if you recommend another one. What I cannot do is try every keyboard and every switch in the world until I find one I really like, as these things are expensive. Any recommendation?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[skaertus]

I am taking a look and I also found the Razer Ornata Chroma, which is cheaper than the Blackwidow and Razer announces it has having an all-new mecha-membrane switch, which would be a mix of a mechanical and a membrane keyboard. Several reviews consider it an overpriced membrane keyboard, though. Razer announces it as having the comfort of a membrane keyboard and the tactile feedback of a mechanical one. And it is considerable cheaper than the Blackwidow, I would spend about USD 150 on it. Should I consider it? I do not need all the features of a mechanical keyboard such as macro keys, anti-ghosting, or progammable keys, nor I need it to last for the next 20 years.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12061/best-mechanical-keyboards

Honestly, most of the lower-end mechanicals are gamer-oriented, but that just means they're a bit gaudy looking - the key feel is still determined by the switch type. (Cherry Blues are my favorite, but many typists prefer Brown.)

The "feel" difference between a $20 membrane keyboard and a $60 mechanical like the Cougar X3 is a LOT more pronounced than the difference between a $60 mechanical and a $120 mechanical. I can put up with a little ugly box art and a "stylish" logo or Transformers styling. The tacky backlighting can be turned off for use in a normally lit office environment.

At the >$100 price point, honestly, I don't see the point of a Das Keyboard or similar - while they're built like tanks, you might as buy a proper buckling-spring keyboard. (It's the OG keyboard all the mechanicals want to be like.)

 

[skaertus]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12061/best-mechanical-keyboards

Honestly, most of the lower-end mechanicals are gamer-oriented, but that just means they're a bit gaudy looking - the key feel is still determined by the switch type. (Cherry Blues are my favorite, but many typists prefer Brown.)

The "feel" difference between a $20 membrane keyboard and a $60 mechanical like the Cougar X3 is a LOT more pronounced than the difference between a $60 mechanical and a $120 mechanical. I can put up with a little ugly box art and a "stylish" logo or Transformers styling. The tacky backlighting can be turned off for use in a normally lit office environment.

At the >$100 price point, honestly, I don't see the point of a Das Keyboard or similar - while they're built like tanks, you might as buy a proper buckling-spring keyboard. (It's the OG keyboard all the mechanicals want to be like.)

Thanks.

I am not really concerned with the styling or the backlight. But as a noticed, the keys in the mechanical keyboards are in a higher position than the keys in a membrane one. I am concerned with typing position, and that is why these big wrist rests of the Razer models called my attention.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Thanks.

I am not really concerned with the styling or the backlight. But as a noticed, the keys in the mechanical keyboards are in a higher position than the keys in a membrane one. I am concerned with typing position, and that is why these big wrist rests of the Razer models called my attention.

Is there a microcenter near you? Or some type of computer-oriented store where you can actually hammer on a display model for a few minutes? (I think that stuff is invaluable, but Amazon is killing them all.)

 

[DigDog]

well, i wrote a couple of reviews here for keyboards, first for a cherry mx clear (heavy spring, tactile), and then for a cherry clone blue (also Outemu). the cherry is very expensive, and the clone is VERY cheap.

both are decent, but after watching the videos of Chyrosran22 i accepted that cherry switches are indeed scratchy and not at all good.

older cherry switches used to be better, allegedly, before they started using a cheaper type of plastic in the stems and housing, and possibly also stopped adding lubricant.

i am now looking to buy (whenever available for sale, bless their soul) a Topre, again allegedly the holy grail of keyboards.

"gaming" can mean flashy red plastic with spikes, or it can mean "better quality", depending on the product. my $150 + $35 keycaps + $godknows shipping+taxes cherry keyboard is sure better than a $8 membrane keyboard, but not at all worth the extra cost.

my recommendation is to start with a cherry clone, and then go from there. if you like it, and it cost £40 shipped, why spend more.

if you hate it, then you will need to look elsewhere.

When it comes to keyboards, a "typing" keyboard means that it has switches which clearly indicate when a key is pressed, generally with a bump or a sound. Its is also good for typing to have a keyboard with some ergonomic features, but that varies. And also keyboards whose switches do not fatigue are considered a plus. Today, we have basically either cherry switches (and clones), or membrane. other switches such as Alps (defunct), mathias, buckling spring clone, etc are rare, and really with ALL these, there is no telling if you will like it or not.

You might want to look at Unicomp for their IBM M clone.
And ofc there is always Topre, if you have $240 laying around.

 

[snarfbot]

the outemu purple has an actuation force of 62 grams as opposed to ~50 for the blues, so i think if you found the blues caused you pain the purples would be a worse experience.

personally i have had 3 boards with blues, 2 were outemu the mechanical eagle z77 and z88. i got the z77 first but returned it as it was much too noisy, like you gotta wear hearing protection to use loud. the z88 is much better, but still very loud. i then got another inexpensive one called the ajazz ak33 and that one has what are called zorro switches. they are slightly softer to press than the outemu blues and quieter, still noisy though!

the keyboard i am using now is called a matias quiet click, and its outstanding. very nice key feel, sounds the way a keyboard should imo, not too loud but satisfying i guess.

 

[fralexandr]

the mx brown/red have actuation force of 45 vs the 50 of blue.

otherwise you'd have to spend $$$ on a keyboard with topre 30g realforce switches... they cost ~$300-500 as per google shopping.

there are flatter, low profile, shorter key travel, mechanical keyboards which might help with wrist strain:
cherry makes some low profile switches with actuation of 45 known as the cherry ML. There may be new low profile desktop keyboards, since cherry announced they're planning on releasing newer low profile switches intended for laptops.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_ML
the ML switches are found on the g84 keyboards.
the g84-5200 has ten-key, but the g84 has a compact laptop like layout. Height: 20mm
http://cherryamericas.com/product/g84-5200-15-ultraslim-keyboard/

-----
kailh has a cherry ml switch clone called the pg1350
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Kailh_PG1350_series
from a quick google, there are a few full size keyboards using low profile switches like the tesoro gram spectrum using kailh switches. Height 24.5mm
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tesoro_Agile
http://tesorotec.com/project/gram-spectrum-mechanical-gaming-keyboard/
https://www.amazon.com/Tesoro-Mechanical-Individual-Illuminated-TS-G11SFL/dp/B01ES9UE6I

anandtech's review of the tesoro
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10454/the-tesoro-gram-spectrum-low-profile-keyboard-review

The high action force and strong tactile feedback in combination with the shortened key travel were alien to what I have been used to up to this date, and it took several days for me to get used to typing without bottoming down every keystroke. It did not feel very comfortable even after I got used to it, as the shortened key travel is not ideal for long typing sessions. In combination with the relatively high operating force of the switches, the Gram Spectrum increased my fatigue levels significantly...
The primary purpose of this keyboard however is not typing, but gaming. The Gram Spectrum did feel practical and comfortable for long gaming sessions. The shortened height of the keyboard counteracts the lack of a wrist rest and the keyboard did not stress my wrists even after hours of gaming.

from what i've found, the tesoro is available in red (~50gf) and blue switches (~55gf)

-----
a tomshardware review of some low profile switch keyboards
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/kailh-pg1350-havit-gamdias-hands-on,36170.html

Primarily, the low-profile options on the market all have exceedingly short travel, which results in a lighter typing feel despite the fact that the weights for some are relatively high (50gf, 60gf, etc.). That light feel will drive some people nuts.

the havit from the tomshardware review. Height: 22.5mm
https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Keyboard-Extra-Thin-Switches-HV-KB395L/dp/B074QM6F7X
tomshardware reviewer does note that the keyboard has some minor chassis flex and only has 2 rubber feet which lets the keyboard slide around a bit. Should be rather straight forward buying some adhesive feet to mitigate the sliding around part though.

from what i've found, the havit is only available in blue switches (~50gf actuation, ~60gf tactile)
-----
Somewhat odd that the anandtech and tomshardware reviewers had opposite reactions to the low profile switches. Though they are 2 different switch types, they're both low profile switches, and actuation forces aren't that different. If you like typing on laptop or chiclet keyboard you might be ok with a low profile switch.

i don't know if amazon ships keyboards to brazil, but they apparently started shipping some categories of items to there, so it's worth a look.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=596202

 

[Dranoche]

Thanks.
But as a noticed, the keys in the mechanical keyboards are in a higher position than the keys in a membrane one.

That's the keycap profile. If you get a board with Cherry switches or compatible clones you can swap out the keycaps for something more to your liking. It is very easy to find keycaps for Cherry switches. For some other types of switches it can be very difficult and/or expensive to find other keycaps. Obviously a new set of keycaps is more money, but that can be partially or completely offset if you can find a barebones (no keycaps included) model.

both are decent, but after watching the videos of Chyrosran22 i accepted that cherry switches are indeed scratchy and not at all good.

And ofc there is always Topre, if you have $240 laying around.

I was almost dead set on Cherry switches when I wanted to go mechanical, but was having trouble deciding which switch I wanted. The more I played with switch testers and various keyboards, the more that scratchiness bothered me. More the feeling than the sound. I originally balked at the price of a Topre board, or even customizing a board with keycaps and other things. I had planned on spending about $70-100 on a Cherry board. A bit more reading and $275 later I had a barebones Novatouch, silencing rings, and side-printed PBT keycaps. I don't regret it one bit, and now I'm looking to get a Realforce for work.

 

[DigDog]

well, my dreams of a topre got kicked back a few months just yesterday, i managed to break either my monitor or my GPU, still not sure which, and i might not be able to afford the Topre when they come back in stock ..

 

[snarfbot]

what happened

 

[DigDog]

I damaged my pc, not sure yet of the $$$ damage.

 

[Adwsail]

I need some advice. I have an antique Strongman SMK-85E tkl alps keyboard that I love the action on. But it can’t take ‘cherry’ style keycaps. I also have a Majicforce tkl mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Browns that I hate with a passion. If I even slightly brush an adjacent key on the Magic it activates which is no good. I am NOT a touch typist. Most of the time I have one hand on an MXAnywhere mouse (love it) and one hand on a keyboard and the SMK is great for that, the MF is useless. I am not a gamer, I do not need or use keyboard lighting and whether a keyboard makes clicky noises or not is meaningless to my needs.

So is there another mechanical keyboard out there that takes the force of the Strongman to actuate, has ‘Cherry’ type keycaps, and, ideally, no lights? Also I’ve been working on computers since the early 80’s so I’m not a kid. I just want another solid mechanical keyboard with no frills but will take MX keycaps. I am perfectly capable of building it from parts if available in semi kit form. But I really want a high actuation force tkl keyboard. Thank you.

 

[bononos]

I need some advice. I have an antique Strongman SMK-85E tkl alps keyboard that I love the action on. But it can’t take ‘cherry’ style keycaps. I also have a Majicforce tkl mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Browns that I hate with a passion. If I even slightly brush an adjacent key on the Magic it activates which is no good. I am NOT a touch typist. Most of the time I have one hand on an MXAnywhere mouse (love it) and one hand on a keyboard and the SMK is great for that, the MF is useless. I am not a gamer, I do not need or use keyboard lighting and whether a keyboard makes clicky noises or not is meaningless to my needs.

So is there another mechanical keyboard out there that takes the force of the Strongman to actuate, has ‘Cherry’ type keycaps, and, ideally, no lights? Also I’ve been working on computers since the early 80’s so I’m not a kid. I just want another solid mechanical keyboard with no frills but will take MX keycaps. I am perfectly capable of building it from parts if available in semi kit form. But I really want a high actuation force tkl keyboard. Thank you.

If you can figure out which kind of alps switch your SMK is using, you might be able to figure out its rough equivalent in terms of actuation force in the cherry mx designs. Pull out a keycap and see whats underneath.

Cherry MX black switch is quite heavy. Cherry clear is also heavy and tactile. Cherry white/green is very heavy. Clone switches are usually follow the specs of the Cherry MX of the same color.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/switch_guides

 

[DigDog]

I need some advice.

1. There is very little that compares to ALPS available today, with the closest being Matias, but they are not stiff.
2. The two stiffest cherry are Clear (which are nice, WASD Keyboards has them) and Green (clicky, allegedly a great switch). I also like stiff switches.

If you hate browns, clears are not much of a change.

If you want to build it yourself, there is a brand new switch on the market that has been taking the mech kb community by storm, people ff RAVE about this switch:
3. Kailh Box Navy

And the build video

The build video doesnt actually go into excessive detail about building, but you can get that with a quick googling.

Finally,
4. Unicomp Model M
Is a clone of the original IBM Model M which is a great switch but a bit old, loud, and not terribly fast,but great to type on.

The kailh use cherry caps, the M and Matias dont, nor do most other brands; the Novatouch (Topre clone) uses cherry mounts but its not stiff and also very expensive.

There are other alternatives but they are not easy to access.