Recommendations on receiver and front speakers

[thegimp03]

I got married this month and I've started to look into building a middle-range home theater system that I think is just going to start with two front bookshelves/floor-standers and a receiver, and will grow into a full size 5.1 (or 7.1) system in the next 3-5 years. The reason I'm going to piece-meal the system is because there is not enough room for a full 5.1 setup in my condo without it causing problems with a newly-acquired variable - the Wife Acceptance Factor.

Keeping the WAF in mind, I want something that not only sounds nice but looks nice as well and doesn't have a "huge" footprint. The living room which I will be placing these in is approximately 14'(L) x 14'(W) x 11'(H). The width is actually closer to 25' but that extra area is where our kitchen table sits, and the speakers won't be needed to display towards that area of the room. We have a wooden console that's about 50" wide and 24" tall that holds my 40" LCD (future upgrade to a 50-54" Panasonic G25 possible) and houses my Xbox360, PS3, and TiVo HD. I may mount the TV once I get the receiver because the receiver will need the top part to receive enough air circulation.

Anyways, receiver-wise, I've been looking at the Denon 3311CI because it's current-generation, has all the updated connectivity options that I may or may not need, and it has pre-outs for a future amplifier hookup (otherwise I'd be looking at the Denon 991 possibly).

Speaker-wise, I'd like to keep it under $1.5k for a pair of bookshelves or $2.5k for a pair of floorstanders, although if there's something that's priced a little higher that sounds amazing I'm interested. So far, I've been looking at B&W, Definitive Technology, Paradigm, but am open to other recommendations if you guys have them.

Thanks for the help!

 

[s44]

Salk SongTowers (long AVSForum thread here). Consider spending the extra to get the ribbon tweeter upgrade.

Get your wife involved in picking the finish and she should be more than happy.

The 3311 is a good choice...

 

[kornphlake]

That's a pretty nice budget for a pair of speakers, unfortunately you're really getting into audiophile territory where personal preference, opinion and "I imagine I can hear a difference" start to come into play heavily. Do you have some high end audio dealers in your area where you can audition the speakers you're interested in? Chances are a speaker that sounds ideal to me may be a little too bright or too mellow, or perhaps it's too forward, or laidback, or maybe you like classic styling and I'm more into modern.

If you can convince this guy to sell any of his speakers at this point, you might find a real value on some unique and beautiful speakers.
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=218488

I really like his HOSS and BaSSlines spekers.

 

[thegimp03]

s44 - appreciate the rec for the Salk SongTowers. As they're internet-direct, it might be harder to audition, but the AVS guys seem to love them.

korn - I'm in the bay area and I know there are a lot of dealers around here so I don't imagine auditioning the "well-known" stuff is going to be difficult. I just wanted to get some ideas and preferences from other people who've had good/bad experiences with some of these brands to mitigate the risk of going in and getting my ass handed to me.

 

[electroju]

I suggest Marantz SR5004 because it is cheaper and the amount of watts it output is close to its advertised wattage. If you care for the over rated 3D, then go with other AV receivers, but always check the power consumption. If the power consumption is not more than the wattage output, do not get it. I suggest do not get an AV receiver that has Ethernet or WiFi because you are just wasting money. It is best to use a computer for that.

The speakers that I suggest are either PSB or Klipsch. I suggest stay away from Definitive Technology because they suit the exotic technology that does not work well for loudspeakers. Passive radiators are just slow and these types of system require double the wattage to get the output. The style of the loudspeaker will be hard to because speaker brands just look like boxes. If you want your speaker to blend with your furniture, go for the DIY route. Parts Express has a Tritrix kit that could be of some interest to you. It is cheap and people said it sounds good. Also you can put your own style into it to blend with the furniture. For the subwoofer, the DIY is definitely the way to go.

BTW, A house is a better way to go for a home theater instead of a condo because of the subwoofer unless you do not mind scheduling in with your neighbors to watch a movie.

 

[alcoholbob]

Depends how wide the seating location is. Ribbons sound great although their dispersion characteristics are not ideal.

 

[s44]

Are these posts the result of a random suggestion generator? There's no sense to this stuff. An outdated MultEQ-only-when-not-using-HD-codecs AVR over the 3311? Absolutely not -- the only Marantz that should be on any non-budget radar is the 7005 (a more expensive, perhaps slightly altered rebadge of the 3311). DefTech's "exotic technology"!? Passive radiators "slow"!? A cheap-ass Tritrix kit for this price range!? Buy a house instead!?

No points.

I suggest Marantz SR5004 because it is cheaper and the amount of watts it output is close to its advertised wattage. If you care for the over rated 3D, then go with other AV receivers, but always check the power consumption. If the power consumption is not more than the wattage output, do not get it. I suggest do not get an AV receiver that has Ethernet or WiFi because you are just wasting money. It is best to use a computer for that.

The speakers that I suggest are either PSB or Klipsch. I suggest stay away from Definitive Technology because they suit the exotic technology that does not work well for loudspeakers. Passive radiators are just slow and these types of system require double the wattage to get the output. The style of the loudspeaker will be hard to because speaker brands just look like boxes. If you want your speaker to blend with your furniture, go for the DIY route. Parts Express has a Tritrix kit that could be of some interest to you. It is cheap and people said it sounds good. Also you can put your own style into it to blend with the furniture. For the subwoofer, the DIY is definitely the way to go.

BTW, A house is a better way to go for a home theater instead of a condo because of the subwoofer unless you do not mind scheduling in with your neighbors to watch a movie.

 

[electroju]

Are these posts the result of a random suggestion generator? There's no sense to this stuff. An outdated MultEQ-only-when-not-using-HD-codecs AVR over the 3311? Absolutely not -- the only Marantz that should be on any non-budget radar is the 7005 (a more expensive, perhaps slightly altered rebadge of the 3311). DefTech's "exotic technology"!? Passive radiators "slow"!? A cheap-ass Tritrix kit for this price range!? Buy a house instead!?

If you know about passive radiators and simulate a system with passive radiators then you should understand what I mean. They are 60 milliseconds slow and in some cases longer. This create muddy bass or not accurate bass. Passive radiator designs are meant for the infrasonic region and not the area that require accuracy. If you like Definitive Technology a lot, go buy them, but do not say I did not warn you.

Codecs come and go, but the codec that provides a bit to bit and lasts a long time is LPCM or just PCM. If you are crying over the stupid crap of 3D, it is waste of money. Also Ethernet ports are really a waste of money on a surround sound processor or AV receiver. Equalizers are just equalizers. They are there to help create a near flat response or improve the output of the speaker. Also Audyssey is old compared to Trinnov Optimizer. Nothing beats the ears for fine tuning which any computer can not do or do not have.

Anybody that does not have a budget, they are better off using separates. This means using a surround sound processor and then buy an amplifier which I will be doing. I would go with Marantz SR5004 to start me out and then add a NAD Electronics T175. If I want to play video from my computer, I would just hook it up.

The TriTrix kit is cheap, but cheap can sound very, very good if it is done right. The TriTrix kit is basically a transmission line system. Transmission line systems are more accurate than vented or bass reflex and almost or better than sealed systems or acoustic suspension. They are harder to design and predict, but it can sound good when it is done right. The woofer and the tweeter for the TriTrix kit does not have to be bought, so you can pick any woofer and tweeter. Of course you will have to figure out a different crossover design. The TriTrix performance has matched performance to thousand dollar speakers, so you should not be too skeptical about it.

A house has more flexibility for a home theater setup compared to a condo. Subwoofers are the loudest compared to loudspeakers because of the rumbling sounds. Bass can travel in and through objects, so it is harder to absorb. If thegimp03 lives in a condo that is attached to neighbors, there will be problems playing the movie, so this becomes the neighbor audible factor.

I am not just stating this out my ass. I know what I am saying.

 

[s44]

The T175 is a pre, not an amp -- and a horribly, infamously buggy one at that.

You half-know a few isolated facts but understand nothing. God help anyone who actually listens to this nonsense.

Enough, before I get busted by the mods... The original post was a warning to the group readers. Life's too short to chase down nonsense across every thread.

 

[Operandi]

The TriTrix kit is cheap, but cheap can sound very, very good if it is done right. The TriTrix kit is basically a transmission line system. Transmission line systems are more accurate than vented or bass reflex and almost or better than sealed systems or acoustic suspension. They are harder to design and predict, but it can sound good when it is done right. The woofer and the tweeter for the TriTrix kit does not have to be bought, so you can pick any woofer and tweeter. Of course you will have to figure out a different crossover design. The TriTrix performance has matched performance to thousand dollar speakers, so you should not be too skeptical about it.

I have the TriTrix MT and it is indeed an awesome speaker and downright amazing for the price, I have no doubt the MTM transmission line would compete well with $800-$1000 speakers.

Transmission lines do have lots of benefits which you stated but I wouldn't get hung up on the transmission line alignment. I would however highly recommend DIY or kits; PE has some really nice Usher and Dayton Reference kits that would easily compete with speakers that retail for 2 - 3x the price. I would go with 3 of the Usher MTM kits for the LCR.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-780

If you have access to the tools (or know someone that dose) you can go full DIY and you have unlimited options, there are even some really nice transmission line towers out there.

 

[Pia]

Genelec 8020b. It's so compact, it's easy to add a third identical speaker as center channel which is ideal for a surround setup. Even for the rears you can use the same speaker, or the smaller 6010a which has the same sound but produces less max volume.

http://www.genelec.com/products/2-way-monitors/8020b/

 

[getafix]

I would highly recommend the Definitive Technology Mythos line of speakers. These speakers have great sound and a high wife approval factor.

 

[vi edit]

If you can convince this guy to sell any of his speakers at this point, you might find a real value on some unique and beautiful speakers. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=218488

Those are little on the wild side looks wise for me, but I'm a convert to open baffle. I've got a pair of X-Statiks from the now (mostly) defunct av123 and they are incredible. There's just a soundstage that they throw that no other speaker I've had before was able to create.

I'm itching to do an OB-7 build from the Daddy of the X-Statiks, Danny Richie.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=136

and back to the OP....

Any chance for a subwoofer? If you don't do a sub then you may as well throw the bookshelf idea out of the window. A cylinder sub from SVS would tuck into a corner well without consuming a lot of floor space.

 

[vi edit]

If you want no compromise HT speaker that doesn't look like something that fell out of the back of a DJ van look at the JTR Triple 8's.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

Expensive...but huge sensitivity & dynamics

 

[s44]

Those are little on the wild side looks wise for me, but I'm a convert to open baffle. I've got a pair of X-Statiks from the now (mostly) defunct av123 and they are incredible. There's just a soundstage that they throw that no other speaker I've had before was able to create.

I'm itching to do an OB-7 build from the Daddy of the X-Statiks, Danny Richie.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=136

C'mon now. If you're going to build open baffle you should honor ol' Linkwitz with his Orion.

 

[richardycc]

it's tough to rec a pr of speakers to you without knowing what kind of sound you are looking for. Did you actually listen to the B&W, Definitive Technology, Paradigm? or you just look at them? tell us what you like or don't like about sound of the B&W, Definitive Technology, Paradigm, we will go from there.

 

[jsalk]

I don't know how, but I just happened to stumble upon this thread and had two quick comments.

First, it was suggested above that the dispersion of ribbons is not ideal. Since some people feel this way, we like to give people a choice. If they prefer a dome tweeter, we will use them.

However, while the dispersion of ribbons was somewhat inferior in the past, a lot has changed in the last few years. Smaller ribbon elements are being used today and these can have dispersion characteristics that rival domes.

There are two aspects of dispersion - horizontal and vertical. With respect to horizontal dispersion, these new ribbons compete with the best of domes. With respect to vertical dispersion, some ribbons can have somewhat more limited dispersion.

At one time, if you stood up, the treble almost disappeared because the vertical dispersion was poor. With a good ribbon today, that is not the case. While they may not quite rival domes in this regard, it is really not an issue - especially in home theater where you are constantly seated.

We have been producing speakers with ribbon tweeters for almost a decade now, and we have never had a single complaint from owners regarding dispersion issues. Quite to the contrary, they receive almost universal praise for the detail and transparency they bring to the table.

Obviously, since I build speakers, I can have any type of tweeter I want. I normally install ribbons in my personal pairs.

The second comment is directed at thegimp03. Since you live in the Bay area and we have a few owners there, if you email me, I can certainly set up an audition for you with a local owner. Not a problem.

- Jim

 

[moonboy403]

I just wanna say that with a square shaped room, the room acoustics suffer. It would be wise to invest part of your budget in room treatment especially bass traps. Otherwise, doesn't matter how good your speakers are, the in room frequency response will still be lousy as you'll get nulls as large as 20 to 30db which are typical.

I highly recommend that you buy at least a Radioshack SPL meter and download the REW Room EQ wizard (FREE!) so you can measure your in room response and see how your speakers perform in YOUR room as speakers sound different in different rooms.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Looks like he's planning a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT, so the SPL meter / REW setup is probably not needed.

 

[moonboy403]

Looks like he's planning a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT, so the SPL meter / REW setup is probably not needed.

I don't think Audyssey reduces ringing.