Record Black Friday spending despite Fox News telling everyone the economy is terrible

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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,975
2,579
136
Right - so they are not paying even remotely the real cost. Thats why they should pay.

Great. So we agree they are baked into the price.
They aren't remotely paying for the real cost? Are you sure about that? I can garantee you my property taxes alone, more than pay for that road side parking in front of my residence. Even renters pay a portion of the property taxes thru their rent. That's before you add in all the other taxes that are collected and used for streets and roads.

As for your "so we agree".. fucking WOW! how can we agree when you have manipulated the context of what you said.. how about you man the fuck up and stop acting like a manipulative bitch!

I am not being high and mighty. You are saying insane and obviously wrong things.
Way to ignore your own words.. You should really learn what a fee is, which you claim is baked in to the price. You are very talented in twisting your words around.. Doesn't make you right.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,805
49,494
136
They aren't remotely paying for the real cost? Are you sure about that? I can garantee you my property taxes more than pay for that road side parking in front of my residence.
While I can’t speak for your town I can say with certainty that in major cities this is not remotely true.
As for your "so we agree".. fucking WOW! how can we agree when you have manipulated the context of what you said.. how about you man the fuck up and stop acting like a manipulative bitch!
I always find it funny how when I agree with someone I’m smart and when I disagree I’m a liar or a manipulative bitch.

Regardless it is entirely obvious that when you require something as part of an apartment that costs money, and that makes the price of the apartment go up. How could it not?
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,975
2,579
136
Your problem is you are trying to compare a bathroom to a parking spot.

A parking spot is an amenity, it's a bit different than an absolutely must have with any single rental property in the country, a single bathroom.

You are trying to bake them into the same pie. Well you are wrong.
In all fairness, that should be directed to me, I am the one who did that, not fskimospy. But in todays modern world, a parking spot is more than just an amenity in my opinion.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,935
20,211
136
In all fairness, that should be directed to me, I am the one who did that, not fskimospy. But in todays modern world, a parking spot is more than just an amenity in my opinion.

ahhh then my bad. no a parking spot and bathroom are not the same 'baked' in. I thought @fskimospy brought that into the discussion I skimmed through.

I work in real estate in urban areas. Your single bathroom and parking spot are by no means in the same category. A parking spot is considered an amenity. So is outdoor space.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,613
3,459
136
The problem with that conspiracy is the part about them dropping prices after getting the tax cuts. They won't, they have no reason to, they can both get the tax cuts and keep the elevated prices (using any number of bullshit excuses). Just like they did in 2015-2017, when they claimed they needed tax cuts to prevent layoffs and then got the tax cuts and then proceeded to perform layoffs.

And buy back stocks, which used to be illegal market manipulation (and still should be).
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
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I feel like people here do not understand how money works. Yes, all apartments are required to have bathrooms. This is not a bad thing but it inherently makes them more expensive, and therefore the bathroom is part of the price you pay.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Bathrooms and kitchens probably have the highest maintenance costs too, which would also be baked in.

But the sidewalk in front of my house was required, it also cost money to put in, therefore the value of the sidewalk was baked into the price of my house.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,975
2,579
136
While I can’t speak for your town I can say with certainty that in major cities this is not remotely true.

I always find it funny how when I agree with someone I’m smart and when I disagree I’m a liar or a manipulative bitch.

Regardless it is entirely obvious that when you require something as part of an apartment that costs money, and that makes the price of the apartment go up. How could it not?
You don't reconize why do you? Because you manipulated and change your original context, twist what you said to mean something entirely different, then you tell someone "so we agree, right".. telling that person, they now conform to your manipulated and twisted new context, agree to it, which in your mind, makes you right about your original statement that started the argument. Yeah.. that makes you a manipulative bitch. that's besides the fact, that you don't get to tell someone that they agree with you. that is entirely up to them. They are the only ones who can determine if they agree with you or not. You get to agree with them, if you chose, but that's it.
This has turned into a ‘do you know how the world works’ argument.
Still acting all high and mighty, thinking you are better and smarter than everyone else..

You claim that bathrooms are a fee added in by the landlord, it's baked into the rent. That is not fundamentally true. Even with your argument about it being part of the construction costs, it still is not fundamentally true. To prove that point, you have to ask yourself, what is a residential house? Answer: It is a single product that consists of different "parts". A single product that someone purchases.. That someone is the owner. The only time the cost of a single bathroom or it's "baked in" is when it is originally purchased after it's construction. If the original purchaser sells that house, they are selling a single product, a residential house, for the current market value.. they are not baking in "Fees" for it having a single bathroom, it's part of the product they originally purchased. Same holds true for a landlord who rents it.. They are not adding a "Fee" or baking an increase in rent because it has a single bathroom. The cost of construction of that bathroom was already paid by the orginal purchaser. Now are they trying to recoup what they spent, and turn a profit, damn straight. But that is based off of market value, has nothing to do with adding in fees for a bathroom or a kitchen as you claim they do, as the bathroom is part of the single product, the landlord bought and is now renting.

What you are trying to use as your argument is that businesses pass on costs to the customer.. that is true, but that does not equate to adding a fee for a bathroom or a kitchen. Adding a fee, or baking it into the price impliles that it's in addition to the original product..

Do you seriously believe that a landlord sits down and goes.. okay, we have to add $100 to the rent because the house has a bathroom.. I mean come.. your argument is bulslhit!

Anyhow, you can continue to have your fucked up view on this all you want, but it's not right, no matter what you say or how you act.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,935
20,211
136
Everything in rent is baked into the price - the features, space, rooms, plus greed. Can never forget that.

You can't compare something like a parking spot to a solitary bathroom though. Sure if a parking spot is included with the unit, that price is baked into the rent, but it's not considered anything like having a single bathroom. It's still considered an amenity baked into the rent, unlike, say, a working toilet.

As far as getting rid of street parking drastically, it's just not possible until we start BUILDING MORE AND BETTER MASS TRANSIT. People that just say street parking should just be curtailed, like that, either live in a type of area where parking is normally included in the standard type of housing there, like a single family house or townhouse, or live in an urban area and actually don't need a car, but can't consider why anyone else would. People with cars in urban areas that say there is no way to live without one, well, they are not taking everybody's lifestyle into account either.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
As far as getting rid of street parking drastically, it's just not possible until we start BUILDING MORE AND BETTER MASS TRANSIT. People that just say street parking should just be curtailed, like that, either live in a type of area where parking is normally included in the standard type of housing there, like a single family house or townhouse, or live in an urban area and actually don't need a car, but can't consider why anyone else would. People with cars in urban areas that say there is no way to live without one, well, they are not taking everybody's lifestyle into account either.
This is the problem with de-caring society, it's a huge chicken and egg thing. You basically have to make driving slightly more painful while you make alternatives less painful. But no city will fund a proper alternatives until people use them. It obviously impossible to get rid of all street parking any time soon, but in commercial areas it should be mostly done away with. People can park and ride in, or pay for parking in a lot/garage. Or the business can choose to provide free/cheap parking.

In lower density residential areas without driveways/garages, you probably can't get rid of it any time soon.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,975
2,579
136
This is the problem with de-caring society, it's a huge chicken and egg thing. You basically have to make driving slightly more painful while you make alternatives less painful. But no city will fund a proper alternatives until people use them. It obviously impossible to get rid of all street parking any time soon, but in commercial areas it should be mostly done away with. People can park and ride in, or pay for parking in a lot/garage. Or the business can choose to provide free/cheap parking.

In lower density residential areas without driveways/garages, you probably can't get rid of it any time soon.
I agree, but also slightly disagree. There are a lot of areas that people would use the proper alternatives (Mass transit), but politics interfers with the implimentation. More specifically, it seems that many conservatives, tend to interfer and prevent implimentation, as they have little interest in Mass transit and transit policies, specially those backed and/or funded by government.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,274
8,199
136
In today's world where cars are becoming a basic requirement unless you have good community, affordable transportation, and live in proximity of that transportation, parking is a basic requirement for housing.

If they are becoming a 'basic requirement' then that is a political choice being made, and it's not a sustainable one.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
I agree, but also slightly disagree. There are a lot of areas that people would use the proper alternatives (Mass transit), but politics interfers with the implimentation. More specifically, it seems that many conservatives, tend to interfer and prevent implimentation, as they have little interest in Mass transit and transit policies, specially those backed and/or funded by government.
Completely agree. A big problem with getting mass transit implemented is there are far too many jurisdictions that can interfere and almost always do. I know that's been an issue with subway expansion in DC and Atlanta. Then politicians want them routed poorly either to bull doze a neighborhood they don't like or to get political points.

Also a lot of people think mass transit should support itself, while they have no problem driving over a toll free $1B interchange.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,858
34,806
136
Some people might wonder why this is a big deal. Structured parking in a residential development runs about $20-$60K per stall or upwards of $80-$100K if underground, depending where you are. Parking ratios demanded by zoning in a lot of cities are also out of step with actual utilization, so much so that developers have begged municipalities to reduce them (sometimes successfully) because they are building a lot of unused parking. More cost means developers have to recover it in rent or sale price. Right sizing the parking component saves everybody money and yes sometimes the right size is in fact zero.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
What am I talking about? Road side parking is where this discussion started.. And I said people already pay for it via taxes.. and you went on a tangent trying to argue that taxes don't pay the $300 - $700 a month that people have to pay to have those parking spots, which is what lead us down this rabbit hole. Why should they have to pay for road side parking that they already paid for thru their taxes?



Who said they don't cost money to make? you are now manipulating and trying to change the context of what you said. Your exact words in bold:



You can stop with your bulshit now!
Bathrooms cost money build. That cost is “baked” into the price of constructing the apartment, baked into the price the landlord pays for the building, and they are “baked” into the rent people pay for the apartment that the landlord charges to recover the cost of purchasing the apartment.

That’s what @fskimospy is saying.

Also it’s spelled preposterous.
 
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