Reduce Crime? Abort Black Babies?

[Steeplerot]

It may have been not spoken in malice (on the surface, but this is debatable imo) but it was a utterly stupid and ignorant thing to say.....

:thumbsdown:

and they wonder why black folk don't want to vote for the right.

 

[dahunan]

It wasn't his opinion.. He used it as an example and qualified it as being a "morally reprehensible" example.. it wasn't a slip of the tongue..

He was telling the caller -- "this is how stupid your reasoning sounds... "

 

[ViciouS]

Originally posted by: dahunan
It wasn't his opinion.. He used it as an example and qualified it as being a "morally reprehensible" example.. it wasn't a slip of the tongue..

He was telling the caller -- "this is how stupid your reasoning sounds... "

THe caller didnt mention black people he did.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

becasue we all know this is the sentiment of a lot of americans right now...

It is? Maybe that's your problem: you view Americans as hopelessly racist.

the little sideline comment about morals is pathetic attempt to cover his ass now that he showed his true colors.

Are you aware "the little sideline comment" was made in the same breath as the one which caused all the fuss? Anyway, it's not a "sideline comment," but rather integral to the point he was making. That you don't realize that isn't his fault.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Unashamedly taken from another forum I frequent:

It's not about Blacks being averagely poorer then other groups statistically. There's no reason to argue that point.

It's about the fact that his simple suggestion was to force abortion onto all Black females! In other words, kill off the Black babies and "America will grow and prosper". How can you miss that part?

And the fact that anyone can be so ignorant as to even voice that opinion. You know...I have some opinions too but do not voice them if they are offensive to people around me.

It wasn't his idea at all. It was a hypothetical exaggeration of the same logic the caller was using, not meant to propogate black suppression, but simply to point out the nature of the caller's flawed reasoning.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou


It is? Maybe that's your problem: you view Americans as hopelessly racist.

fair enough, and you are hopelessly in denial...

 

[Lanyap]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
First of all, this guy is a radio personality, now, not an active politician.

Secondly, taken in context, the remark, while certainly racy (no pun intended), makes perfect sense, and illustrates his point fairly well. Was it appropriate? Probably not--but since when do talk show hosts care about that?

I love the way Pelosi wants an apology from Bush everytime a Republican farts.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Let me say it more clearly, then: there's no evidence which suggests most Americans are racist. Believing so would therefore constitute relying on guesswork. I prefer to believe only what is shown to be true, not the opinion of some guy on a message board.

 

[Helenihi]

I'm so glad this guy said this, because its made it easy to spot everyone who is either a) illiterate or b) so blinded by hate and eager to think badly about every conservative that they are selectively illiterate.


Its quite clear that he wasn't advocating the position and was using it to point out that results don't justify means. You could tell this by doing such simple things as reading what he was responding to, where he's telling a caller that arguing that the ends justify the means ("I mean, it cuts both [ways]" and "I would not argue...based on this." You could also tell from where he pointed out, in the very same response that he wasn't actually supporting the idea.

 

[Steeplerot]

I never said most....quit that crap...

 

[boredhokie]

I think steeplerot's position is indicitive of the level of critical thinking skills that most people that post on this board have. They see certain slide words and automatically try to apply it to whatever political affiliation they're attached to in order to give them a sense of self worth in life. It you read what he said in context, think now steeplerot, he mentioned the book Freakanomics, which states that black commit more crimes than whites in the US, per capita. His point was that if you abort black babies, the black population will be lower compared to the white population, lowering crime rates per capita on a purely mathematical bases. If you abort white babies, there will be more black babies per capita and - based on the Freakanomics outcomes - the crime rate would go up.

That's the point the radio guy was making, which he clearly states in his mention. He says that he doesn't agree with the logic of Freakanomics based on the situation he just described. Maybe if steeplrot based his argument on the fact that every society has crime, no matter what the racial make up, he would have a better case. Even then, he would essentially be agreeing with what the radio guy just said.

 

[Steeplerot]

I went through and read more into it....As I said, it is still irresponsible, but then this is why I don't listen to talk radio.

It is obvious where his mindset is.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I went through and read more into it....As I said, it is still irresponsible, but then this is why I don't listen to talk radio.

It is obvious where his mindset is.

It is? Do you know the guy? Do you have any background information on his policies or his even his personal life? I highly doubt it.

Maybe he is a racist. Maybe he hates black people, and wishes they weren't around. But even if that is true, you wouldn't be able to tell from the talk show excerpt that's being blasted by liberals and democrats.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: boredhokie
I think steeplerot's position is indicitive of the level of critical thinking skills that most people that post on this board have. They see certain slide words and automatically try to apply it to whatever political affiliation they're attached to in order to give them a sense of self worth in life. It you read what he said in context, think now steeplerot, he mentioned the book Freakanomics, which states that black commit more crimes than whites in the US, per capita. His point was that if you abort black babies, the black population will be lower compared to the white population, lowering crime rates per capita on a purely mathematical bases. If you abort white babies, there will be more black babies per capita and - based on the Freakanomics outcomes - the crime rate would go up.

That's the point the radio guy was making, which he clearly states in his mention. He says that he doesn't agree with the logic of Freakanomics based on the situation he just described. Maybe if steeplrot based his argument on the fact that every society has crime, no matter what the racial make up, he would have a better case. Even then, he would essentially be agreeing with what the radio guy just said.

:thumbsup:

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Not surprising you hear this in private all the time from his type....

Racism in this country is the unspoken status-quo after years of rich elitest whites blaming the poors trouble on the victims themselves. (welfare queens etc)

genocide (what he is reffering to with the aborting crack) of the black race would be less liberals and less of their precious taxmoney spent on a inferior class of human beings in their eyes.

According to your standard, the radio is wrong, yet you calling and I quote blacks:

inferior class of human beings

is okay - hmmmm...think we know who the real racist is, unless of course you were using that as an example, just like radio host.


So which is it? How can you stand by your above statement and not be racist while accusing William Bennet of doing the samething and calling him racist?

like to here an explanation on that one

 

[Steeplerot]

The quote in question is not coming from a racist source, or a talking head representing a racist institution, so draw whatever conclusions you wish

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Not surprising you hear this in private all the time from his type....

Racism in this country is the unspoken status-quo after years of rich elitest whites blaming the poors trouble on the victims themselves. (welfare queens etc)

genocide (what he is reffering to with the aborting crack) of the black race would be less liberals and less of their precious taxmoney spent on a inferior class of human beings in their eyes.

According to your standard, the radio is wrong, yet you calling and I quote blacks:

inferior class of human beings

is okay - hmmmm...think we know who the real racist is, unless of course you were using that as an example, just like radio host.


So which is it? How can you stand by your above statement and not be racist while accusing William Bennet of doing the samething and calling him racist?

like to here an explanation on that one

Hah! Nice catch.

 

[Steve Guilliot]

You are a bunch of monkeys flinging poo. Why don't you look at what the guy said? Perhaps if you did, you could determine where your positions diverged and say something meaningful.

Bennett's point is that the pro-life position entails unseen costs, and an example of that could be the crime rate. Thus, he chose black abortions to illustrate. "That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do" is referring to forcing abortions on black women, NOT the fact that he thinks Blacks contribute disproportionately to the crime rate.

That tells me two things:

First, Bennet clearly didn't want his comments to be construed as pro-abortion (lol, or pro genocide) and that's the reason he provided apologetic qualifications.

Second, he is saying that blacks have a higher incidence of crime relative to their population. This is statistically true. But the reason for this is a higher incidence of poverty among blacks, not the fact that they are black. He could have said "impoverished", but he chose "black". This is either racist, very careless, or a bit of both.

I'm not saying people who do this are bad people, but it's a sentiment that is wrong and needs to be corrected.

 

[Steve Guilliot]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
inferior class of human beings in their eyes.

is okay - hmmmm...think we know who the real racist is

Hah! Nice catch.

Laughable. Shrump takes Steeple's quote out of context (intentionally or ignorantly), and instead of recognizing the fallacy, you have a circle-jerk.

My time in P&N is usually short because the ignoramuses draw me in, and the sh*t drives me out.

Cheers.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
1) What he said was, technically speaking, true.
2) He noted that the idea is "morally reprehensible."

Aside from bad taste, what's the problem?

becasue we all know this is the sentiment of a lot of americans right now...

the little sideline comment about morals is pathetic attempt to cover his ass now that he showed his true colors.

You seem pretty insistent that his comment was racist in nature when he was just trying to make a point to illustrate the fallacy of another person's argument.

So far you haven't actually refuted what he said. If a statement is true, if it is factual, is it racist even if we don't like the fact? I'm not a fan of Bill Bennett at all and I'm a huge advocate of legal abortion, but I also oppose knee-jerk anti-intellectualism.

What I don't understand is why you haven't refuted the truth of his statement and then denounced him as a racist for suggesting that what he said is true. It's almost as though you've surrendered from the start. It's as though you have an axe to grand and want to insist that he's racist because you don't like what he said and fear that it is, in fact, true.

I suspect that he might be correct, assuming that it is true that blacks, as a whole, commit a larger percentage of crime than the percentage of people who are black. That would seem to make the statement correct even if we don't like it and even if, as he said, it would be morally reprehensible.

The people condemning the man as a racist merely on the basis of that one comment need to demonstrate that the comment itself is false and/or that there's an excellent reason to believe that it is false and that he couldn't possibly have been mistaken in good faith.

Having read the (posted) transcript of the conversation at issue, I suspect that most of the hoopla is just knee-jerk anti-intellectualism, almost all of it coming from people who haven't read the transcript or people who read it but who's intellects are so stunted that they can't grasp the point he was trying to make.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

It wasn't his idea at all. It was a hypothetical exaggeration of the same logic the caller was using, not meant to propogate black suppression, but simply to point out the nature of the caller's flawed reasoning.

It was not a hypothetical exaggeration of the same logic the caller was using. The caller's claim was in opposition to what he said. If you take what he said to be factual and true, then his comment weakens the caller's claim that the nation's economy would be better without abortion. I suspect that Bennett opposes abortion just as the caller did. Bennett's point was that the caller's argument is a bogus argument, which, I would say, makes him unusually honest for an abortion opponent.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Let me say it more clearly, then: there's no evidence which suggests most Americans are racist. Believing so would therefore constitute relying on guesswork. I prefer to believe only what is shown to be true, not the opinion of some guy on a message board.

It's always good to remember that a great many self-proclaimed anti-racists are in fact advocates of racial collectivism and only think in terms of racial collectivism and not true individualism. Advocacy of "Affirmative Action" (as opposed to a colorblind program that relies on colorblind socio-economic factors), for example, is pure, unadulterated racism, but such advocates do not have the intellectual capacity needed to grasp their contradiction.

 

[13Gigatons]

I think the point Bennet was making is that he is pro life and pro black baby. That if over the last 30 years black women hadn't had those abortion there would be more black kids and possibly more crime.

Mr. Bennet was trying to be the Devils Advocate which is how he made the "all black babies be aborted" statement.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is a damn good reason for outrage after the world took a good look at how we treat black and poor folk here and then this racist trash...

Honestly.. You are blinded by your bigotry towards Republicans... Liberals and us Independents are usually open-minded and can hear both sides of an issue... You are being closed on this issue and SEEK reasons to feel rage and hatred for Republicans.

Thanks dahunan. It's good to see that more than just the "racist Republicans" on this boards can call a spade a spade when it comes to the more ignorant posters here. :thumbsup:

Whether or not this guy was making an insensitive comment is certainly debatable, but the very notion that he is *obviously* a racist and is simply expressing the same sentiments felt by the majority of Americans is patently absurd.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Steve Guilliot

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
inferior class of human beings in their eyes.

is okay - hmmmm...think we know who the real racist is

Hah! Nice catch.

Laughable. Shrump takes Steeple's quote out of context (intentionally or ignorantly), and instead of recognizing the fallacy, you have a circle-jerk.

That is the type of "fallacy" that this entire thread is based on. I"m just pointing out that steeplerot did the same thing that william bennett.