Reducing blood pressure without meds?

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Tius8383

Junior Member
Jun 10, 2011
1
0
0
its so unfortunate to hear about your situation. I'm an internal medicine resident, eventually hoping to become a cardiologist, and work in a county hospital and VA and hear about this all the time.

Most of the medications you were on have generics that can be bought at walmart/target for 4$ if you qualify for their program, which I think you would given you've lost coverage and you have a medical condition such as heart failure and diabetes.

Unfortunately, the reality is if you had bp in the 200's, then coming off your meds is going to cause your bp to increase, not necessarily to 200's, but possibly to 150-170's. Your goal is going to be less than 130/80 given you have heart failure and diabetes.

The consequences of not having controlled blood pressure (bp) is going to be have your heart strain harder to overcome the resistance from bp and it already consume more oxygen than it already does in its weakned state. That can lead to 1) heart attack which would further damage the viable heart muscle you have left 2) possibly put you into a decompensated state where fluid can build up in your lungs and you'll have trouble breathing. Of course this most likely wouldn't happen in a day or two, but over weeks could lead to a hospitalization. This is important because there is a correlation with how often you're hospitalized for heart failure and mortality.

More importantly, some of the medications you're on not only lower blood pressure but have been proven to decrease mortality associated with your heart failure condition. Namely, metoprolol and ramipril. Metoprolol being a beta-blocker and ramipril being an ace-inhibitor. These medications have been proven to prolong patients' lives who have your similiar condition.

Seeing that you're on lasix, i'm guessing you have pretty moderate to severe heart failure where your legs swell and fluid retains, thus necessitating you being on this medication. This is a diuretic which makes your kidneys excrete more urine to prevent fluid buildup. It also has and indirect effect at lowering blood pressure. Though this medication does not have any benefit in mortality, it does decrease the chance of fluid building up and causing you to be in the hospital.

Unfortunately, what I'm saying is for your benefit, you should continue these medications. Metoprolol, ramipril, and if you can't get ramipril, then maybe your doctor can switch you to lisinopril or enalapril (same drug class that's on the generic list) to help. If he can right norvasc as amlodipine, i think that should also be on the generic list.

The only other things nonpharmacologically you can do is like you're already saying, limit salt intake and fluid intake. For weight loss, insulin sucks because its a growth factor and can cause weight gain. As a result, for my patients, i try and get it to them that to minimize, weight gain, you're gonna have to minimize your insulin dosage. And to minimize your insulin requirements, you're gonna have to minimize your spikes in blood sugar aka minimize unhealthy carb intake.

Sorry to say, there's not going to be a simple solution for your case.
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
1,014
1
0
As recommended by the pharmaceutical company that flew him/her to Tahiti for a week long seminar entitled, "Drugs are good, vitamins are bad." Maybe it is time to look for another doctor?

-KeithP

lol indeed

I'm not saying your 2nd opinion (or 3rd, or 4th) advice is bad advice. Doctors are humans of course.

But it's pretty funny how often people will say "that's bad medical advice" when they really don't know what they're talking about. Superstition, "this is what my mom taught me", "my friend said...", lol.

You may or may not know anything about it, but I just thought this was relevant.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
Hey, OP, how's it going with the blood pressure?

I'm no nutritionist or doctor, but couldn't drinking more water lower your blood viscosity, and therefore lower blood pressure?
The increased volume would have a far greater impact on blood pressure. Diuretics like furosemide are given for CHF because they reduce the amount of fluid in the body, reducing the load on the heart.
 

nanette1985

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2005
4,209
2
0
Hey, OP, how's it going with the blood pressure?

Hi! Still having trouble with the #$%*#$ medical coverage situation but that's another rant.

I ran out of the Ramipril (which is NOT available from Walmart for $4, BTW - but other ace inhibitors are) a few weeks ago. Since then my blood pressure has stayed at around 120/70 - even with the ridiculous stress level of recent events. As you can imagine I'm monitoring it fanatically (just measured it, 120/67).

Still on metapropolol, amplodipine, Lasix - have enough of those to last a couple months (if heaven forbid the bureaucrats drag this out more). Plus all my other meds. We tested with different dosages so I have a lot of leftovers.

Thanks for asking!
 

bluearyus

Member
Jan 2, 2001
53
0
0
You should ask your doctor to be switched to one of the $4 ace inhibitors. The reason is that ace inhibitors have been shown to protect your kidneys from damage caused by diabetes. As already mentioned in post #26, ace-inhibitors have been proven to prolong your lifespan since you have heart failure.

Rather than not take any ace-inhibitor, it's better to have your doc prescribe the $4 version and have those added benefits.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
^That. How does drug pricing work in the States, by the way? Here prescription meds are subsidized to $3 per sub for adults and free for children and seniors.

Hi! Still having trouble with the #$%*#$ medical coverage situation but that's another rant.

I ran out of the Ramipril (which is NOT available from Walmart for $4, BTW - but other ace inhibitors are) a few weeks ago. Since then my blood pressure has stayed at around 120/70 - even with the ridiculous stress level of recent events. As you can imagine I'm monitoring it fanatically (just measured it, 120/67).

Still on metapropolol, amplodipine, Lasix - have enough of those to last a couple months (if heaven forbid the bureaucrats drag this out more). Plus all my other meds. We tested with different dosages so I have a lot of leftovers.

Thanks for asking!
That's good I don't think you need to regulate BP so fanatically, it varies throughout the day, so as long as you measure it at the same time once a day you should be fine. Good to see you seem to have everything mostly under control though
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,932
1,113
126
^That. How does drug pricing work in the States, by the way? Here prescription meds are subsidized to $3 per sub for adults and free for children and seniors.

Depends. Most of my prescriptions are $4, unless it's some specialty medicine. Then it's something like $20. I have excellent insurance though.
 

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,094
123
106
simple, natural recipe for reducing blood pressure without meds:

1 Cup - Kefir
1 teaspoon - Ground Cinnamon.

Stir the cinnamon in the cup and mix it thoroughly with kefir. Drink all at once. Works every time, and delicious too!

(If you dont have Kefir, plain yogurt may work too, but I am not too sure about that. Never tried)
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
simple, natural recipe for reducing blood pressure without meds:

1 Cup - Kefir
1 teaspoon - Ground Cinnamon.

Stir the cinnamon in the cup and mix it thoroughly with kefir. Drink all at once. Works every time, and delicious too!

(If you dont have Kefir, plain yogurt may work too, but I am not too sure about that. Never tried)

No, this won't help. She needs prescription medications. Period.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
Depends. Most of my prescriptions are $4, unless it's some specialty medicine. Then it's something like $20. I have excellent insurance though.
So all drug reimbursements are through insurance? How much of it do they pay? And how about for things like chemotherapy, where the drugs can get really expensive?

simple, natural recipe for reducing blood pressure without meds:

1 Cup - Kefir
1 teaspoon - Ground Cinnamon.

Stir the cinnamon in the cup and mix it thoroughly with kefir. Drink all at once. Works every time, and delicious too!

(If you dont have Kefir, plain yogurt may work too, but I am not too sure about that. Never tried)
This probably won't work. At all.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
simple, natural recipe for reducing blood pressure without meds:

1 Cup - Kefir
1 teaspoon - Ground Cinnamon.

Stir the cinnamon in the cup and mix it thoroughly with kefir. Drink all at once. Works every time, and delicious too!

(If you dont have Kefir, plain yogurt may work too, but I am not too sure about that. Never tried)

i'm all about natural treatments, but that isn't gonna make too much of an impact whatsoever.

she's better off buying red yeast rice, taking fish oil and k2d3 supplements, doing heavy lifting exercise, and eating tons of veggies.
 

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,094
123
106
No, this won't help. She needs prescription medications. Period.

The title clearly says "Reducing blood pressure WITHOUT meds". So how can you say she needs meds when she is clearly asking you to give he alternate solutions? I mean, yeah, I know you are stating it as a fact, but telling someone who wants to find alternatives that there are no alternatives, is kind of harsh, don't you think? She got her doctors to tell he the bad news.

I didn't say this will cure her, but don't say it wont help before you personally tried it. It helps me every time and it helps my grandmother who has severe hypertension. and it doesn't just lower the BP by a tiny bit. It noticeably lowers it. Better to drink this stuff than popping pills all the time, or at least drink this as a supplement to pills.

This probably won't work. At all.

Have you tried it? Unless you did you have no right to say it wont help.

i'm all about natural treatments, but that isn't gonna make too much of an impact whatsoever.

she's better off buying red yeast rice, taking fish oil and k2d3 supplements, doing heavy lifting exercise, and eating tons of veggies.

REALLY? Have YOU tried it? How the heck can you say this if you didn't?
 
Last edited:

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
ibex333, what were you and your grandmother's blood pressures prior too and after this Kefir buzzword product today?
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
The title clearly says "Reducing blood pressure WITHOUT meds". So how can you say she needs meds when she is clearly asking you to give he alternate solutions? I mean, yeah, I know you are stating it as a fact, but telling someone who wants to find alternatives that there are no alternatives, is kind of harsh, don't you think? She got her doctors to tell he the bad news.

I didn't say this will cure her, but don't say it wont help before you personally tried it. It helps me every time and it helps my grandmother who has severe hypertension. and it doesn't just lower the BP by a tiny bit. It noticeably lowers it. Better to drink this stuff than popping pills all the time, or at least drink this as a supplement to pills.



Have you tried it? Unless you did you have no right to say it wont help.



REALLY? Have YOU tried it? How the heck can you say this if you didn't?
1) Placebo.
2) Burden of proof is on you, I'm glad to say. And anecdotal evidence just doesn't cut it. This isn't some new configuration to get a better overclock or some new tactic to try next time you play basketball, but someone's life. And your conscience alone should dictate that you need more evidence than your grandmother before you tell someone else to try it.
3) What someone wants is not always what they get, or what they need. It's tough, but that's the way life works.
4) No, what doctors are there for is to tell the truth.

I feel I should amend what I earlier said. It appears that after doing a small literature search, kefir (or at least, cultured milk products) do have some antihypertensive effect. However, as I said before, it is nowhere near enough of an effect to cause any significant changes to her current treatment plan. A review I found showed a in blood pressure to be 11mmHg systolic; however, this was the most positive study, and it was in people who were only mildly hypertensive; most of the people around OP's original BP range had 4-8mmHg at most, and several studies in the review reported increases. Whether this is due to placebo, I can't say.

Also, I should mention that if these substances have an effect, they will also have a mechanism of action. This means if they have a mechanism that coincides with one of the mechanisms used by any of OP's other drugs, the results of taking it may reduce the effect of the current drug, or it may cause side effects which were not present before for little benefit. It's hard to say.
 
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