Regent University School of Law

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
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Scandal puts spotlight on Christian law school


Some Great excerpts

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. -- The title of the course was Constitutional Law, but the subject was sin. Before any casebooks were opened, a student led his classmates in a 10-minute devotional talk, completed with "amens," about the need to preserve their Christian values.

"Sin is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun," the law student warned.

Regent University School of Law, founded by televangelist Pat Robertson to provide "Christian leadership to change the world," has worked hard in its two-decade history to upgrade its reputation, fighting past years when a majority of its graduates couldn't pass the bar exam and leading up to recent victories over Ivy League teams in national law student competitions.

But even in its darker days, Regent has had no better friend than the Bush administration. Graduates of the law school have been among the most influential of the more than 150 Regent University alumni hired to federal government positions since President Bush took office in 2001, according to a university website.

One of those graduates is Monica Goodling , the former top aide to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales who is at the center of the storm over the firing of US attorneys. Goodling, who resigned on Friday, has become the face of Regent overnight -- and drawn a harsh spotlight to the administration's hiring of officials educated at smaller, conservative schools with sometimes marginal academic reputations.

Documents show that Goodling, who has asserted her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination to avoid testifying before Congress, was one of a handful of officials overseeing the firings. She helped install Timothy Griffin , the Karl Rove aide and her former boss at the Republican National Committee, as a replacement US attorney in Arkansas.

Because Goodling graduated from Regent in 1999 and has scant prosecutorial experience, her qualifications to evaluate the performance of US attorneys have come under fire. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, asked at a hearing: "Should we be concerned with the experience level of the people who are making these highly significant decisions?"

And across the political blogosphere, critics have held up Goodling, who declined to be interviewed, as a prime example of the Bush administration subordinating ability to politics in hiring decisions.

"It used to be that high-level DOJ jobs were generally reserved for the best of the legal profession," wrote a contributor to The New Republic website . ". . . That a recent graduate of one of the very worst (and sketchiest) law schools with virtually no relevant experience could ascend to this position is a sure sign that there is something seriously wrong at the DOJ."

The Regent law school was founded in 1986, when Oral Roberts University shut down its ailing law school and sent its library to Robertson's Bible-based college in Virginia. It was initially called "CBN University School of Law" after the televangelist's Christian Broadcasting Network, whose studios share the campus and which provided much of the funding for the law school. (The Coors Foundation is also a donor to the university.) The American Bar Association accredited Regent 's law school in 1996.

Not long ago, it was rare for Regent graduates to join the federal government. But in 2001, the Bush administration picked the dean of Regent's government school, Kay Coles James , to be the director of the Office of Personnel Management -- essentially the head of human resources for the executive branch. The doors of opportunity for government jobs were thrown open to Regent alumni.

"We've had great placement," said Jay Sekulow , who heads a non profit law firm based at Regent that files lawsuits aimed at lowering barriers between church and state. "We've had a lot of people in key positions."

Many of those who have Regent law degrees, including Goodling, joined the Department of Justice. Their path to employment was further eased in late 2002, when John Ashcroft , then attorney general, changed longstanding rules for hiring lawyers to fill vacancies in the career ranks.

Previously, veteran civil servants screened applicants and recommended whom to hire, usually picking top students from elite schools.

In a recent Regent law school newsletter, a 2004 graduate described being interviewed for a job as a trial attorney at the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division in October 2003. Asked to name the Supreme Court decision from the past 20 years with which he most disagreed, he cited Lawrence v. Texas, the ruling striking down a law against sodomy because it violated gay people's civil rights.

"When one of the interviewers agreed and said that decision in Lawrence was 'maddening,' I knew I correctly answered the question," wrote the Regent graduate . The administration hired him for the Civil Rights Division's housing section -- the only employment offer he received after graduation, he said.

The graduate from Regent -- which is ranked a "tier four" school by US News & World Report, the lowest score and essentially a tie for 136th place -- was not the only lawyer with modest credentials to be hired by the Civil Rights Division after the administration imposed greater political control over career hiring.

The changes resulted in a sometimes dramatic alteration to the profile of new hires beginning in 2003, as the Globe reported last year after obtaining resumes from 2001-2006 to three sections in the civil rights division. Conservative credentials rose, while prior experience in civil rights law and the average ranking of the law school attended by the applicant dropped.

As the dean of a lower-ranked law school that benefited from the Bush administration's hiring practices, Jeffrey Brauch of Regent made no apologies in a recent interview for training students to understand what the law is today, and also to understand how legal rules should be changed to better reflect "eternal principles of justice," from divorce laws to abortion rights.

"We anticipate that many of our graduates are going to go and be change agents in society," Brauch said.

Still, Brauch said, the recent criticism of the law school triggered by Goodling's involvement in the US attorney firings has missed the mark in one respect: the quality of the lawyers now being turned out by the school, he argued, is far better than its image.

Seven years ago, 60 percent of the class of 1999 -- Goodling's class -- failed the bar exam on the first attempt. (Goodling's performance was not available, though she is admitted to the bar in Virginia.) The dismal numbers prompted the school to overhaul its curriculum and tighten admissions standards.

It has also spent more heavily to recruit better-qualified law students. This year, it will spend $2.8 million on scholarships, a million more than what it was spending four years ago.

The makeover is working. The bar exam passage rate of Regent alumni , according to the Princeton Review, rose to 67 percent last year. Brauch said it is now up to 71 percent, and that half of the students admitted in the late 1990s would not be accepted today. The school has also recently won moot-court and negotiation competitions, beating out teams from top-ranked law schools.

Adding to Regent's prominence, its course on "Human Rights, Civil Liberties, and National Security" is co taught by one of its newest professors: Ashcroft.

Even a prominent critic of the school's mission of integrating the Bible with public policy vouches for Regent's improvements. Barry Lynn , the head of the liberal Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, said Regent is churning out an increasingly well-trained legal army for the conservative Christian movement.

"You can't underestimate the quality of a lot of the people that are there," said Lynn, who has guest-lectured at Regent and debated professors on its campus.

In light of Regent's rapid evolution, some current law students say it is frustrating to be judged in light of Regent alumni from the school's more troubled era -- including Goodling.

One third-year student, Chamie Riley , said she rejected the idea that any government official who invokes her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination could be a good representative of Regent.

As Christians, she said, Regent students know "you should be morally upright. You should not be in a situation where you have to plead the Fifth."



60 percent failed the Bar in goodlings class. Top notch Talent we have here. No wonder the government is messed up. Yet the article states that some of the only jobs these graduates could get were with the Bush Whitehouse and justice department. Best and Brightest.


the article is just scathing. The Last part is the Best though.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Hiring incompetent people is a good way to keep GWB as the smartest man in the room.
 

WiseOldDude

Senior member
Feb 13, 2005
702
0
0
Perhaps not the best law school, but just perhaps this person has some personal ethics and standards, and really has a problem lying, or even working around liars.

We all know some people with average intelligence that are completely honest, and some very smart people that are habitual liars. Its character, not the school you attended that makes a person.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
I've noticed a lot of intelligent religious people go to sub-par religious-based schools because of their personal beliefs. I wouldn't base base an individual on the overall group.
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
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what's wrong with the last part? maybe it's just her own personal belief? Maybe she believes you should speak the truth on the stand?
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
The Taliban went to Madrassas and the Bushies went to Bible college.
Not much difference.
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
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0
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
what's wrong with the last part? maybe it's just her own personal belief? Maybe she believes you should speak the truth on the stand?

Monica Goodling is Pleading the Fifth. I just found it humerous
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: techs
The Taliban went to Madrassas and the Bushies went to Bible college.
Not much difference.

Ignorance is bliss.

Hmm so would you also consider Lawrence v. Texas the most egregious SC decision in the past 20 years? Good thing they put that monkey in the Civil Rights Division, he knows his scripture!
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: techs
The Taliban went to Madrassas and the Bushies went to Bible college.
Not much difference.

Ignorance is bliss.

Hmm so would you also consider Lawrence v. Texas the most egregious SC decision in the past 20 years? Good thing they put that monkey in the Civil Rights Division, he knows his scripture!

Assume much?

I was getting at the fact that Madrassas are 100% different than Bible schools.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: techs
The Taliban went to Madrassas and the Bushies went to Bible college.
Not much difference.

Ignorance is bliss.

Hmm so would you also consider Lawrence v. Texas the most egregious SC decision in the past 20 years? Good thing they put that monkey in the Civil Rights Division, he knows his scripture!

Assume much?

I was getting at the fact that Madrassas are 100% different than Bible schools.

I didn't assume anything, I asked you a question, you can put your victim hat away.

Madrassas aren't as different from the Pat Robertson brand of Christianity as you would like to believe.

Sharia law isn't much different than telling consenting adults what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms, which is what this 'institution' of higher learning seems to espouse.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: techs
The Taliban went to Madrassas and the Bushies went to Bible college.
Not much difference.

Ignorance is bliss.

Hmm so would you also consider Lawrence v. Texas the most egregious SC decision in the past 20 years? Good thing they put that monkey in the Civil Rights Division, he knows his scripture!

Assume much?

I was getting at the fact that Madrassas are 100% different than Bible schools.

I didn't assume anything, I asked you a question, you can put your victim hat away.

Madrassas aren't as different from the Pat Robertson brand of Christianity as you would like to believe.

Sharia law isn't much different than telling consenting adults what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms, which is what this 'institution' of higher learning seems to espouse.

orly? Lots of Christian women beat in public for committing the crime of being raped eh?
Where do you people come up with this crap that even the most lunatic fringe like Pat Robertson is anything like Sharia law?

 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Well it's no secret that Bush keeps religiously tuned-in idiots on the payroll. You don't have to be able to think, just agree with the dogma.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: techs
The Taliban went to Madrassas and the Bushies went to Bible college.
Not much difference.

Ignorance is bliss.

Hmm so would you also consider Lawrence v. Texas the most egregious SC decision in the past 20 years? Good thing they put that monkey in the Civil Rights Division, he knows his scripture!

Assume much?

I was getting at the fact that Madrassas are 100% different than Bible schools.

I didn't assume anything, I asked you a question, you can put your victim hat away.

Madrassas aren't as different from the Pat Robertson brand of Christianity as you would like to believe.

Sharia law isn't much different than telling consenting adults what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms, which is what this 'institution' of higher learning seems to espouse.

orly? Lots of Christian women beat in public for committing the crime of being raped eh?
Where do you people come up with this crap that even the most lunatic fringe like Pat Robertson is anything like Sharia law?

Yeah and if Pat Robertson had his way, gay people would be burned at the stake. In this respect they are the same, which is the context with which I was speaking.

So you can put your extreme strawmen away, there are many examples of suppression of women in Christianity both now and in the past.

Also, Madrassa isn't a synonym for terrorist training camp.

Also, I'm not one of 'those' people any more than you are.

 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Great to know that we pick our graduates to run an unbiased government not from the best schools, but the most biased.

Even better will be when these people themselves attempt to get into US state Attorney jobs, or even higher court jobs, and really begin social change, to their direction. Not an unbiased one, but a completely biased, ultra-conservative, right-wing, uber-religious, closed society.

V for Vendetta anybody?
 
Sep 14, 2005
110
0
0
This is despicable.

150 members of the administration coming from a school slightly better than getting your degree from a cracker jack box?

Couple this with administrative positions in Iraq restricted to party loyalists rather than competence.

Is there no greater evidence that this administration is putting party before country?

How can 25% of the country still support this evil, corrupt administration. You all have no shame.
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
0
0
Its also interesting to see that they are #2 in receiving scholarships from the Heritage foundation.



150 of these grads from the 136th rated law school (Tier 4) in the government.

I thought the GOP stood for merit-based hiring, not affirmative action for minority groups
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Just a continuation of their policies from the CPA, DoEd, Homeland Security, DoE, EPA, FDA, FEMA, Justice Department - all government agencies have been packed to the gills with unqualified people based on their political loyalty.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
I can't speak for the other schools, but I went to Regent University School of Counseling. It was an excellent school for the most part. Fortunately, their was no Christian counseling emphasis at all. There was a course that reviewed various Biblical counseling styles, but there was no attempt to indoctrinate students with any particular style. Well, obviously some Professors had their preferences for schools of thought, but all major schools of psychology/counseling were covered. I was considering attending a couple secular universities, but I was so impressed with the prospectus and the courses offered I knew that this was the school for me. There were several top-notch instructors and a couple who were just good. All of them definitely knew their stuff, no doubt about that.

It was actually very irritating b/c it was very obvious that our school was ignored by Pat and the heads. The pet schools were Law (duh), Govt, Theology, and Communications (not as much as the others, but it has become a recent favorite). At any rate, do not judge the whole school by the School of Law (or govt).

EDIT: I suppose being ignored by Pat might have helped sustain the level of quality in our program
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
61
91
Pat Robertson and other religion nutcases have made no secret of their attempts to invade and take over the government to promote their agenda. Now, we learn that the Bushwhackos have hired 150 graduates of their junk law school.
Regent University
.
.
Law school

The Regent law school was founded in 1986, "when Oral Roberts University shut down its ailing law school and sent its library to Robertson's Bible-based college in Virginia. It was rare for Regent's graduates to get government jobs, but in 2001, the Bush administration picked the dean of Regent's government school, Kay Coles James, to be the director of the Office of Personnel Management, "the doors of opportunity for government jobs were thrown open to Regent alumni."

In 2007 when Monica Goodling invoked her fifth amendment rights to avoid testifying about White House involvement in U.S. attorneys controversy it brought attention on Regent's law program.

Regent law was ranked a "tier four" school by US News & World Report, which was the lowest score and essentially a tie for 136th place. Thus, when its graduates started to take jobs at the United States Department of Justice, "Conservative credentials rose, while prior experience in civil rights law and the average ranking of the law school attended by the applicant dropped." While "Seven years ago, 60 percent of the class of 1999 -- Goodling's class -- failed the bar exam on the first attempt," the school has started to remake itself. Including hiring John Ashcroft for its recently created class on "Human Rights, Civil Liberties, and National Security."

Also mentioned was "a recent Regent law school newsletter, a 2004 graduate described being interviewed for a job as a trial attorney at the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division in October 2003. Asked to name the Supreme Court decision from the past 20 years with which he most disagreed, he cited Lawrence v. Texas, the ruling striking down a law against sodomy because it violated gay people's civil rights."
I shudder to think what their schools of law and government teach about the separation of church and state, but at least, they taught Monica Gooding how to invoke the Fifth Amendment to avoid incriminating herself for crimes she may have committed as a top level official in the U.S. Department of Justice. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

See my sig.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: Infidel
This is despicable.

150 members of the administration coming from a school slightly better than getting your degree from a cracker jack box?

Couple this with administrative positions in Iraq restricted to party loyalists rather than competence.

Is there no greater evidence that this administration is putting party before country?

How can 25% of the country still support this evil, corrupt administration. You all have no shame.

Young padawan... its not just this administration. All politics in general.... federal, state, down to local.

Let me ask you this... what is the best proven way to become an ambassador and be a representative of this nation on foreign soil?

A) Go to a prestigious school, learn a foreign lanquage and work your way up through the ranks of the State Department

or

B) contribute heavily to a political campaign

This stuff is criminal. But lets not limit it to the Bush administration. Clinton did it. My state government does it. And I see it in local politics. OUr government is a fine tuned system that has worked hard to be able to work without any oversight.
 
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